Backup Strategy

[Thiol]

Hi all,

After reading about all the Software RAID and Time Machine issues, I think I finally decided on a backup strategy and was wondering if anyone had any opinions:

Disk 1: OS on a 120 GB Raptor
Disk 2: Files on a 500 GB WD
Disk 3: Carbon Copy Clone Backup of Disk 1 on the stock 320 GB
Disk 4: Time Machine Backup of Disk 2 on a 1 TB WD

My goal is not just to back up my files, but also have a bootable OS in case Disk 1 fails or gets damaged. I still haven't sorted out a few things based on the boards.

1) Is it possible to put both my Carbon Copy Clone and Time Machine Backup on the same hard drive? Or do I really need two separate drives?
2) Do you trust Time Machine yet, or should I Carbon Copy Clone Disk 2 as well? If so, can I clone two different hard drives onto one backup?

Thanks!

 

[kittiyut]

1) Is it possible to put both my Carbon Copy Clone and Time Machine Backup on the same hard drive? Or do I really need two separate drives?
2) Do you trust Time Machine yet, or should I Carbon Copy Clone Disk 2 as well? If so, can I clone two different hard drives onto one backup?

Thanks!

1) Yes, it is possible. I am doing just that. But remember, if the drive fails, you lose both! (I have two CCC just in case)
2) TM for me works very well. But then again, to get up and running quickly if your drive ever fails, CCC would be quicker. However, CCC takes time, depending on the amount of data on your drive and you can't do incremental. For me, TM and CCC compliments each other. One can't be a substitute for the other. Cloning 2 difference drives onto one "physical" disks? I don't see any reason why you can't do so. (but you'll be putting all your eggs in one basket!)

 

[valdore]

I recently set up a "JBOD" array between two 750 GB drives in my Pro, with system backups running frequently through Time Machine with a 1TB external plugged in the back.

Thing is though I'm gonna need a bigger external once my system surpasses the 1TB mark.

 

[rtrt]

a

 

[Mr.PS]

carbon copy cloner apparently does incremental backups.
not used it before and this feature is what interests me.

http://www.bombich.com/pr/ccc3-9172007.html

one thing i'm not sure about yet is whether you can back 2 separate internal drives to 2 separate external using CCC. understand you can only use one destination drive with TM.

I have a raid 0 array (2x750gb hdd's) and I want to run a backup to the stock 320GB hdd with time machine. Can time do a full operating system restore? Or should I use something like CCC instead?

 

[trainguy77]

ICan time do a full operating system restore? Or should I use something like CCC instead?

Yes Time machine can do a full restore. You simply boot off your Leopard install disk then in the menus there is an option for a full time machine restore.

 

[Mr.PS]

Yes Time machine can do a full restore. You simply boot off your Leopard install disk then in the menus there is an option for a full time machine restore.

I see, I will prob use that then. CCC seems like a nice app, I might consider that instead as well.

 

[Thiol]

Hi again,

Two questions:

I'm hearing conflicting things about moving my Users folder to another hard drive. People seem to suggest not doing it because of incompatibilities with some upgrades. Is this still true?

Can I at least move my Apple Mail and Mail Downloads folder to a different hard drive? And if so, how?

Thanks!

 

[trainguy77]

Hi again,

Two questions:

I'm hearing conflicting things about moving my Users folder to another hard drive. People seem to suggest not doing it because of incompatibilities with some upgrades. Is this still true?

Can I at least move my Apple Mail and Mail Downloads folder to a different hard drive? And if so, how?

Thanks!

Its a feature of OS X so i don't see why it would be a problem. I haven't had any issues in the year and i half i have had it setup like that.

 

[WildPalms]

I've done the same thing on two of my workstations and they are SAN connected. No issues so far.

 

[Thiol]

Its a feature of OS X so i don't see why it would be a problem. I haven't had any issues in the year and i half i have had it setup like that.

Sorry, I'm confused. I thought it involved a complicated workaround involving symlinks and often prevents OS updates from installing. Am I just reading old protocols? What does one move the location of the Users folder to another hard drive on Leopard?

 

[trainguy77]

Sorry, I'm confused. I thought it involved a complicated workaround involving symlinks and often prevents OS updates from installing. Am I just reading old protocols? What does one move the location of the Users folder to another hard drive on Leopard?

I used syslinks back in 10.4 but not anymore. The best way is to copy the contents of your user folder to the external drive. Then go into accounts in the system preferences. Then right click on your user, advanced options. Then change the location of "home directory" to your external drive. Log out, log in and then your external drive even gets the little house icon on your desktop.

And for copying EVERYTHING your best method would be using this in terminal.

sudo ditto -rsrcFork /Users/myusername /Volumes/Partitionname/

 

[Thiol]

Thanks! That is so much easier.

 

[trainguy77]

Thanks! That is so much easier.

Also don't delete the originals until your certain everything is working. Just to make sure everything was copied etc.

 

[Sandock]

Disk 1: OS on a 120 GB Raptor
Disk 2: Files on a 500 GB WD
Disk 3: Carbon Copy Clone Backup of Disk 1 on the stock 320 GB
Disk 4: Time Machine Backup of Disk 2 on a 1 TB WD

I plan to setup mine just like this too. But may I ask how do you tell Time Machine to back up Disk 2? Would it be possible to tell Time Machine to back up two internal harddrives (say Disk 1 containing OS and Disk 2 containing files)?

 

[trainguy77]

I plan to setup mine just like this too. But may I ask how do you tell Time Machine to back up Disk 2? Would it be possible to tell Time Machine to back up two internal harddrives (say Disk 1 containing OS and Disk 2 containing files)?

No currently time machine will only back up to one drive. However, it can backup 2 disk to one drive if there is enough space.

 

[jcvmf214]

I love my itunes and would like some kind of raid to protect the shows.

Should I get the internal raid which I suspect is more expensive than say a Drobo?

Also
hard drives
can I buy a hard drive from any retail store and use them in the mac pro?

 

[trainguy77]

I love my itunes and would like some kind of raid to protect the shows.

Should I get the internal raid which I suspect is more expensive than say a Drobo?

Also
hard drives
can I buy a hard drive from any retail store and use them in the mac pro?

RAID is NOT a backup strategy. Buy an internal drive and use it for backups not for RAID. RAID is designed for speed increases, and to protect against hard drive failure, or a combination of those two.

 

[jcvmf214]

RAID is NOT a backup strategy. Buy an internal drive and use it for backups not for RAID. RAID is designed for speed increases, and to protect against hard drive failure, or a combination of those two.

I am just thinking why not just get it now rather than take the pains to install it later. besides I would not mind the speed increase.

 

[trainguy77]

I am just thinking why not just get it now rather than take the pains to install it later. besides I would not mind the speed increase.

In that case go for it. But be sure you also have a backup system in place. So it will require 3 hard drives minimum. Two in the RAID one for backup.

 

[jcvmf214]

In that case go for it. But be sure you also have a backup system in place. So it will require 3 hard drives minimum. Two in the RAID one for backup.

I was planning on using terabite hard drvies. I may not be able to do this all at once but every 6 months or so getting a TB hard drive

I should be able to get them anywhere i can find a sale I usually stick with segate or WD.

 

[Michael73]

If I were going to redo my backup strategy I'd probably follow some advice I read a while back which trainguy77 alluded to. The TM drive IS NOT a bootable drive and you'll be outta luck if you don't have a Leopard install disk handy. The article I read suggested partitioning the drive you plan to deploy TM on with a small partition where a second copy of OS X can reside. That way, should your main drive fail you can be up and running with minimal downtime.

Just a thought...

One other thing...I saw some guy get hammered for the suggestion of using one of his free MP drive bays for TM. The theory went that you'd be more secure with an offsite back up or in this case at least an external drive not in the same physical machine. I believe most people in the thread believed that unless you are constantly writing large files that after the initial back-up, the incrementals should be relatively fast using FW400/800 thereby belaying any performance issues of the external drive.

 

[Just sayin...]

Regarding backup strategy - local backup is a good safety net which should cover 99% of all your problems. I really like the concept of a 1TB Time Capsule, electrically isolated and on a separate UPS, in another room in my house, as a first-level of protection. HOWEVER, don't overlook the importance of an offsite encrypted backup archive...just in case. I've had customers that were impacted by hurricane Katrina that would have been dead in the water (pun intended) had they not planned ahead with some sort of remote data strategy. It happens.

On a personal note, I just burn an encrypted DVD monthly, and drop it in the mail to my mother's house in another state. She retains the last two discs in a drawer in her desk, and drops the next older, displaced version in her shredder. That way, no matter what happens, the greatest loss I can experience with my most critical data is 30 days (RPO < 30 days, RTO ~ 5 days). Do I back everything up in this scheme? No - only the most critical ~4 GB or so of data. My music collection (~400 GB) is backed up to DVD's and stored locally - that way, any virus or corruption issue will be avoided. My pictures (~60 GB) are backed up in a similar way, but they're more important, so I'm searching for a better alternative (currently considering Mozy).

While not "industrial strength", the above strategy is an order of magnitude better than only local, connected backup, which is another order of magnitude better than no backup at all.

 

[kittiyut]

Regarding backup strategy - local backup is a good safety net which should cover 99% of all your problems. I really like the concept of a 1TB Time Capsule, electrically isolated and on a separate UPS, in another room in my house, as a first-level of protection. HOWEVER, don't overlook the importance of an offsite encrypted backup archive...just in case. I've had customers that were impacted by hurricane Katrina that would have been dead in the water (pun intended) had they not planned ahead with some sort of remote data strategy. It happens.

On a personal note, I just burn an encrypted DVD monthly, and drop it in the mail to my mother's house in another state. She retains the last two discs in a drawer in her desk, and drops the next older, displaced version in her shredder. That way, no matter what happens, the greatest loss I can experience with my most critical data is 30 days (RPO < 30 days, RTO ~ 5 days). Do I back everything up in this scheme? No - only the most critical ~4 GB or so of data. My music collection (~400 GB) is backed up to DVD's and stored locally - that way, any virus or corruption issue will be avoided. My pictures (~60 GB) are backed up in a similar way, but they're more important, so I'm searching for a better alternative (currently considering Mozy).

While not "industrial strength", the above strategy is an order of magnitude better than only local, connected backup, which is another order of magnitude better than no backup at all.

Good advice. Having backups on external drives but kept locally is still, in a way, having all eggs in the same basket. If disaster (like Katrina or fire) strikes, you lose everything as well. I'm going to start doing the same thing. Except that I'll have to mail my backups half way across the globe to get to my closest relatives!

KK