Baldwin kills cinematographer.

[Rafagon]

I just found out about the accidental killing of a cinematographer by Alec Baldwin.

But why did he aim and shoot at her? I could understand if he aims and shoots at another actor while rehearsing a scene, but I'm sure that the cinematographer was not supposed to appear in any scenes in the movie.

Why was the gun pointed at the cinematographer in the first place?

My other question is how did he manage to kill or injure not just one, but two people with only one bullet?

Thanks for your responses.

 

[velocityg4]

The article I saw said the assistant director was standing behind her. It doesn’t take that powerful a gun for a round to go clear through and keep going.

 

[Number-Six]

I just found out about the accidental killing of a cinematographer by Alec Baldwin.

But why did he aim and shoot at her? I could understand if he aims and shoots at another actor while rehearsing a scene, but I'm sure that the cinematographer was not supposed to appear in any scenes in the movie.

Why was the gun pointed at the cinematographer in the first place?

My other question is how did he manage to kill or injure not just one, but two people with only one bullet?

Thanks for your responses.

What a weird question. Why are you assuming he actually aimed and shot at her?

All articles I've seen say it was an accidental discharge

 

[CartesianProduct2014]

What a weird question. Why are you assuming he actually aimed and shot at her?

All articles I've seen say it was an accidental discharge

I‘m not following it closely, but I’ve not read anything saying it was an accidental discharge until today.

It’s actually a fair and relevant question. Gun handling and safety will be pivotal in determining if criminal charges will come, civil liability, and insurance payouts.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

Why was the gun pointed at the cinematographer in the first place?

Was it? Could have been a discharge. Even if not, she was behind the camera and for dramatic reasons scenes are often shot with actors shooting at the camera.

 

[CartesianProduct2014]

Was it? Could have been a discharge. Even if not, she was behind the camera and for dramatic reasons scenes are often shot with actors shooting at the camera.

It was certainly pointed in her direction because she was shot. The scene was being rehearsed so Baldwin was practicing his cross draw and the two victims were positioned next to the camera.

The warrant affidavit does not include any statement by Baldwin nor state any conclusion if the gun‘s trigger was intentionally pulled or discharged on its own.

It does state, “The prop gun was fired by actor Alec Baldwin…”.

More specifics will come in time.

 

[deeddawg]

I just found out about the accidental killing of a cinematographer by Alec Baldwin.

But why did he aim and shoot at her? I could understand if he aims and shoots at another actor while rehearsing a scene, but I'm sure that the cinematographer was not supposed to appear in any scenes in the movie.

Why was the gun pointed at the cinematographer in the first place?

My other question is how did he manage to kill or injure not just one, but two people with only one bullet?

Thanks for your responses.

Continue your reading - there is a lot more to the story, including serious firearm safety (and other) concerns by crew members to the point some had walked off the set earlier.

From what I've read so far, this tragedy is a result of breaking the first two of the Four Primary Rules of Firearm Safety

 

[960design]

Back in the day, I ran transportation ( got a few movie credits for it ) for many movies after getting out of the Army. Watching the actors, firearm controllers and everyone else muzzling everyone is sight freaked me out.
Still see it in movies today, actors muzzling their fellow actors during scenes.

Having rambled (ansath achievement) all that, actors do have a job and have to point at or towards the camera to "get the action shot". It would seem in this case is was a complete accident. Depending on lighting, he may have not even able to see that he was pointing directly at a human at all.

 

[CartesianProduct2014]

Back in the day, I ran transportation ( got a few movie credits for it ) for many movies after getting out of the Army. Watching the actors, firearm controllers and everyone else muzzling everyone is sight freaked me out.
Still see it in movies today, actors muzzling their fellow actors during scenes.

Having rambled (ansath achievement) all that, actors do have a job and have to point at or towards the camera to "get the action shot". It would seem in this case is was a complete accident. Depending on lighting, he may have not even able to see that he was pointing directly at a human at all.

I don’t think there’s any question it was an accident. People are understandably eager to know more details on how it happened and could have been avoided. Criminal charges are not out of the question here and certainly there will be a civil suit.

 

[Madhatter32]

I don’t think there’s any question it was an accident. People are understandably eager to know more details on how it happened and could have been avoided. Criminal charges are not out of the question here and certainly there will be a civil suit.

Yes it probably was an accident -- but that does not matter. The pertinent question here is whether there was negligence (I think given the facts surrounding the previous safety issues reported on there was no question that there was negligence -- for civil liability) and whether it constituted criminal negligence. In my opinion, Alec Baldwin is not out of legal jeopardy because it was an "accident."

 

[CartesianProduct2014]

Yes it probably was an accident -- but that does not matter. The pertinent question here is whether there was negligence (I think given the facts surrounding the previous safety issues reported on there was no question that there was negligence -- for civil liability) and whether it constituted criminal negligence. In my opinion, Alec Baldwin is not out of legal jeopardy because it was an "accident."

Completely agree. As I said criminal charges can flow from accidents and of course there will be civil suits.

Baldwin is a dual principal because he was holding the gun and he’s a producer. He is deep into legal jeopardy.

Alec Baldwin’s Rust stunt double accidentally fired two rounds, report says

Safety concerns had been raised about conditions on New Mexico set of ‘Rust’ before Thursday’s fatal shooting

www.independent.co.uk

 

[yaxomoxay]

Completely agree. As I said criminal charges can flow from accidents and of course there will be civil suits.

Baldwin is a dual principal because he was holding the gun and he’s a producer. He is deep into legal jeopardy.

Alec Baldwin’s Rust stunt double accidentally fired two rounds, report says

Safety concerns had been raised about conditions on New Mexico set of ‘Rust’ before Thursday’s fatal shooting

www.independent.co.uk

It was clearly an accident, however I agree that he might be in legal jeopardy. This is even more true if the news that it was a rehearsal and not the actual shot is true.

 

[Madhatter32]

It was clearly an accident, however I agree that he might be in legal jeopardy. This is even more true if the news that it was a rehearsal and not the actual shot is true.

Agree that the legal jeopardy exists but I do not think it makes a difference on whether this was a rehearsal or not from a legal perspective.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Agree that the legal jeopardy exists but I do not think it makes a difference on whether this was a rehearsal or not from a legal perspective.

It might as they might have not expected that he would pull the trigger. Also I read that the assistant director was the one that handed the gun; as a producer he should have refused it immediately.

 

[DMG35]

I had heard that being the cinemetographer it could have been a scene where he was firing the gun towards the camera which is why it would be pointed in her direction. That seems to make some sense.

 

[960design]

It might as they might have not expected that he would pull the trigger. Also I read that the assistant director was the one that handed the gun; as a producer he should have refused it immediately.

That seems very odd.
Prop weapons I've seen used in movies are handled only by prop firearm controllers. They hold the weapon up until the point right before scene starts. The controller will remove the "red tag / plug" ( red on some sets, yellow on others ), final (quick) inspection and yell loudly something like "squib alert" or "firearm warning" to get everyone's attention. Then, finally, hand over weapon(s) to actor(s) and scene starts moments later. As soon as cut is called they are back in, first thing to control the firearm.

 

[yaxomoxay]

That seems very odd.
Prop weapons I've seen used in movies are handled only by prop firearm controllers. They hold the weapon up until the point right before scene starts. The controller will remove the "red tag / plug" ( red on some sets, yellow on others ), final (quick) inspection and yell loudly something like "squib alert" or "firearm warning" to get everyone's attention. Then, finally, hand over weapon(s) to actor(s) and scene starts moments later. As soon as cut is called they are back in, first thing to control the firearm.

It seems that nothing of the above happened, and the gun was lying, unsupervised, on a table.

 

[0128672]

I had heard that being the cinemetographer it could have been a scene where he was firing the gun towards the camera which is why it would be pointed in her direction. That seems to make some sense.

Yes, according to the affidavit, they were rehearsing an at the camera shot.

Alec Baldwin Was Rehearsing Pointing Gun at Camera, Affidavit Says

The director of “Rust” gave the authorities the most detailed account yet of how the actor fatally shot the film’s cinematographer.

www.nytimes.com

 

[CartesianProduct2014]

Agree that the legal jeopardy exists but I do not think it makes a difference on whether this was a rehearsal or not from a legal perspective.

I agree being a rehearsal has little play. Since Baldwin is also a producer he has additional responsibility. If the reports are true there has been misfires and other safety issues on the set he may face involuntary manslaughter charges if it can be shown a lack of due caution was not exercised. Such a charge only requires general intent, not specific intent. There’s a lot of moving parts to this tragedy.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

I thought about adding my own hypothesis (and analysis of my hypothesis) to the pile, but then decided to just read up on what actually happened instead. All the speculation is unnecessary. Tragic accident due to gross negligence on part of the production company that thought they could forgo using trained staff, which the crew and Baldwin himself protested. He was handed the gun with no reasonable expectation that it was anything other than a cleared prop gun, practiced the scene as scripted, & one of the oldest theatre tropes (on-stage murder by switching prop weapons with real ones) resulted.

Someone will ultimately be held responsible, most likely whoever brought live rounds to the set and put them in the gun, and hopefully the execs who cheaped out and made the decision to go ahead with untrained/unqualified people.

 

[yaxomoxay]

I thought about adding my own hypothesis (and analysis of my hypothesis) to the pile, but then decided to just read up on what actually happened instead. All the speculation is unnecessary. Tragic accident due to gross negligence on part of the production company that thought they could forgo using trained staff, which the crew and Baldwin himself protested. He was handed the gun with no reasonable expectation that it was anything other than a cleared prop gun, practiced the scene as scripted, & one of the oldest theatre tropes (on-stage murder by switching prop weapons with real ones) resulted.

Someone will ultimately be held responsible, most likely whoever brought live rounds to the set and put them in the gun, and hopefully the execs who cheaped out and made the decision to go ahead with untrained/unqualified people.

Agreed. IMO Baldwin's culpability will be based on his productor's hat, and not on his being the actor that pulled the trigger.

 

[CartesianProduct2014]

He was handed the gun with no reasonable expectation that it was anything other than a cleared prop gun, practiced the scene as scripted, & one of the oldest theatre tropes (on-stage murder by switching prop weapons with real ones) resulted.

Without knowing more information about the incident and his role in addressing the safety concerns I can only say I kinda agree. Whether there was ‘no reasonable expectation‘ will ultimately be determined by the trier of fact. Who that is depends where this all goes.

 

[yaxomoxay]

practiced the scene as scripted

This we do not know. We know he was practicing a cross draw, but we do not know if pulling the trigger was part of it and we do not know if they expected him to pull the trigger during the rehearsal.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

Doesn’t matter if the script called for him to pull the trigger or not. There shouldn't have been live rounds on set, much less loaded into a gun, much less handed to an actor expecting a inert prop gun without telling him and sent out into a scene. Every gun on a set is to be handled by an assigned tech, repeatedly cleared, & checked in & out, to eliminate any possibility of it being anything other than a prop, not a loaded lethal weapon. It is a professional production set, not a backyard barbecue hootenanny. There is no skeet shooting with the prop guns between takes. There needs to be a suspension of the basic rules of gun operation on set, because a gun is on set for one reason, and that is to aim at other people and pretend to shoot them. That’s literally what Chekov’s Gun is referring to. Every production needs the actors to be able to reasonably expect that their props are harmless in order to do their job. There’s a whole set of protocols and dedicated people responsible for enforcing it.

 

[Fomalhaut]

Continue your reading - there is a lot more to the story, including serious firearm safety (and other) concerns by crew members to the point some had walked off the set earlier.

From what I've read so far, this tragedy is a result of breaking the first two of the Four Primary Rules of Firearm Safety

Yes indeed. Rule 2 in your list is to treat every firearm as if it was loaded with the safety off and act accordingly until you have proven *to yourself* that it is not.

Really, actors using firearms capable of live fire should have minimal training to know how to check, unload and clear a firearm that they are handling, or at least have someone experienced "prove clear" to them as they hand over the firearm. This was the standard practice during my military service - if you hand a weapon to a colleague, you remove the mag and show an empty chamber to them.

Also, why is there *any* live ammunition on a film set? There may be some cases where you need to show realistic bullet impacts (which might be easier/cheaper to do with normal ammo than pyrotechnics), but these should be cutaways that are really tightly controlled with no-one anywhere nearby.

This should never have happened.