Best way to get 6 macs running osx 10.0 thru 10.5

[donbright]

Dear PPC folks,

Here is a challenge... what would be the best way to get 6 old PPC macs, running OSX 10.0 thru 10.5? Assume that this is done without using facebook, craigslist, or local mac user groups.

Also assume that this is going to be a 100% legit operation. No shady ISO downloads, no software emulators, no hackintoshes, and no reburned DVDs. Since the user is actually going to be using XCode, this means agreeing to XCode license which prohibits all such things.

The ultimate purpose is to attempt to cross-build modern software using https://github.com/tpoechtrager/osxcross to see if it is possible to run it on older systems.

I have looked at ebay and the problem seems to be, there are a lot of old machines of questionable provenance, and a lot of them have wiped OSes. It seems that between shipping and actually buying a legit copy of the install disks (which is increasingly hard for 10.1, 10.2, etc), the price is not so "low" after all.

Thanks

 

[Adamscomputerrepair]

Dear PPC folks,

Here is a challenge... what would be the best way to get 6 old PPC macs, running OSX 10.0 thru 10.5? Assume that this is done without using facebook, craigslist, or local mac user groups.

Also assume that this is going to be a 100% legit operation. No shady ISO downloads, no software emulators, no hackintoshes, and no reburned DVDs. Since the user is actually going to be using XCode, this means agreeing to XCode license which prohibits all such things.

The ultimate purpose is to attempt to cross-build modern software using https://github.com/tpoechtrager/osxcross to see if it is possible to run it on older systems.

I have looked at ebay and the problem seems to be, there are a lot of old machines of questionable provenance, and a lot of them have wiped OSes. It seems that between shipping and actually buying a legit copy of the install disks (which is increasingly hard for 10.1, 10.2, etc), the price is not so "low" after all.

Thanks

Besides your iso issue, there’s only going to be a handful of leopard capable Macs that are old enough to boot 10.0. You might want to refine your challenge to 10.0-10.4 just because it would be easier to go back.

 

[bunnspecial]

My "all version" machine Gigabit Ethernet G4.

As a word of advice, some versions of OS X are temperamental.

Also, most of my older versions of OS X came with lots of old Macs I bought. One of the uncommon ones is a full-blown OS X 10.1 installer-many that you see are upgrades for 10.0.
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Besides your iso issue, there’s only going to be a handful of leopard capable Macs that are old enough to boot 10.0. You might want to refine your challenge to 10.0-10.4 just because it would be easier to go back.

I wouldn't call it a "challenge." The Sawtooth, Gigabit Ethernet, and Cube can all do it without any special tricks other than Leopard Assist or another bypass to install Leopard. You can go back to an 8500 or so as long as you have a G4 upgrade.

@Intell has an 8600 running 7.6 to Leopard...mine should be capable but I've had issues getting Leopard to place nicely on it.

 

[Intell]

I need to freshen up that machine. It's sitting in its shipping box at the moment. Have some new PCI cards to swap into it.

 

[Slix]

Now, I am in agreement that doing things the legal way is the right way, so finding official disks is the way to go. But these Macs and software are over a decade old now. Even if you found an installer disk, it's very likely it was used on another machine already, right? Isn't that against the original Mac OS X license agreement? (I very well could be wrong, but I seem to remember that being the case.) Same goes for Xcode, since those old versions are no longer supported by Apple (or even sold or able to be downloaded, in some instances.)

Anyway, a graphite G4 would be a good one, since it's able to run many of the versions well. No reason to buy 6 separate Macs when one or two do the job well.

 

[AphoticD]

For my own personal use I have many Macs setup with a variety of older OSes. A space saving and ideal scenario could be something like;

1. PowerBook G3 Pismo (400 or 500MHz, 1GB RAM, 32GB SSD) or a 1st gen Titanium PowerBook G4 with similar specs to run:
10.0.4 with "Developer Tools for Mac OS X 10.0"
10.1.5 with Apple Developer Tools 2001
10.2.8 with "Mac OS X Developer Tools Dec 2002"

2. PowerBook G4 Aluminum 15" (1.0GHz to 1.67GHz, 2GB RAM, 64GB SSD)
10.3.9 with Xcode 1.5
10.4.11 with Xcode 2.5
10.5.8 with Xcode 3.1.4

Personally I see no issue with sharing installation media across my personal collection of Macs. I would be up for a mighty challenge if I were to attempt to source out original installation media for the countless number of older Macs I have on hand. In some cases I have made USB or Firewire installation drives from original media (or .iso copies of) to boot a mac with a failing optical drive. In many cases I will simply use Firewire Target Disk mode and restore a full pre-configured installation from a saved disk image to setup or restore muliple Macs with the same configuration.

The question really comes down to how much time you want to spend hunting around for something that might not exist and how much you just want to get started on your projects with minimal fuss. I think it's a safe bet that Apple's legal time have bigger fish to fry than going after someone playing around with an OS from generations ago on obsoleted hardware.

 

[z970]

For my own personal use I have many Macs setup with a variety of older OSes. A space saving and ideal scenario could be something like;

1. PowerBook G3 Pismo (400 or 500MHz, 1GB RAM, 32GB SSD) or a 1st gen Titanium PowerBook G4 with similar specs to run:
10.0.4 with "Developer Tools for Mac OS X 10.0"
10.1.5 with Apple Developer Tools 2001
10.2.8 with "Mac OS X Developer Tools Dec 2002"

2. PowerBook G4 Aluminum 15" (1.0GHz to 1.67GHz, 2GB RAM, 64GB SSD)
10.3.9 with Xcode 1.5
10.4.11 with Xcode 2.5
10.5.8 with Xcode 3.1.4

Personally I see no issue with sharing installation media across my personal collection of Macs. I would be up for a mighty challenge if I were to attempt to source out original installation media for the countless number of older Macs I have on hand. In some cases I have made USB or Firewire installation drives from original media (or .iso copies of) to boot a mac with a failing optical drive. In many cases I will simply use Firewire Target Disk mode and restore a full pre-configured installation from a saved disk image to setup or restore muliple Macs with the same configuration.

The question really comes down to how much time you want to spend hunting around for something that might not exist and how much you just want to get started on your projects with minimal fuss. I think it's a safe bet that Apple's legal time have bigger fish to fry than going after someone playing around with an OS from generations ago on obsoleted hardware.

*someone non-ill-intentioned, playing with an OS from over 15 years ago, on long obsoleted hardware, that cannot even display the YouTube homepage.

Bigger fish to fry indeed.

 

[pl1984]

I'm not clear on what it is you're asking. Are you asking for recommendations as to which systems to buy (I assume you want to buy six systems, one for each version of the OS)? Are you asking where to obtain the original OS X media and licenses? Not understanding what you mean by "this is done without using facebook, craigslist, or local mac user groups.", can you clarify what you mean by that? Will the software you intend to build be made available to others (at no cost or for cost)? Or is this just an experiment for your personal knowledge? I assume it'll be made available to others thus the requirement to use properly licensed systems and development tools.

 

[bunnspecial]

FWIW, a subscription Apple's developer program gets you access to not only older versions of X-code but also a significant number of old OSs.

It's been a while since I've looked(I let my subscription lapse), but I know for sure that Tiger and Leopard are available, and I think maybe Panther also. The caveat is that I'm not sure whether or not they have the client versions, but for all intents and purposes the server versions will work fine for you and you do get license codes for them by signing up.

I'm not sure how much more "legitimate" you can get than getting them through Apple's official for developers paid subscriber service.

 

[AphoticD]

Good point @bunnspecial . I believe Mac OS X Server 10.3, Server 10.4 (PPC) and Server 10.4 universal, plus the full retail client copy of 10.5 (universal) are each available from the developer program downloads area.

Although Apple provided serials with the licenses of the old server versions, the serial number(s) have expired and have not been renewed. In which case a valid non-expiring serial will need to be sourced elsewhere in order to use this fully licensed copy which has been made available directly from Apple to paying software developers.

In this particular scenario it gets a bit muddy.... Perhaps one could write to Apple to find a solution, however it would likely get a response along the lines of “We no longer support this software. Buy a new Mac and you can install the latest macOS Server at no added cost as the paid developer account includes an App Store voucher to download the current (and Beta) versions.”

As an annually paying developer I feel it’s poor form for Apple to provide licensed software without a valid serial number. However I am grateful it is still even available from the source like this.

Personally, I would download what I need from the dev downloads area, buy up a few older retail OS X discs from eBay and just put the software to work rather than worry about the fine print.

The PowerPC userbase is unlikely to ever capture any of your software market share. So whatever you are performing will be either a labour of love for the platform or a learning experience for yourself.

 

[pl1984]

Personally, I would download what I need from the dev downloads area, buy up a few older retail OS X discs from eBay and just put the software to work rather than worry about the fine print.

If the OP intends to distribute software developed on and with the tools from previous OS X versions I think the fine print is very important. I doubt Apple would care if this were a personal project. However if the OP intends to share his work then Apple might care (if only to protect their right to their IP).

 

[AphoticD]

If the OP intends to distribute software developed on and with the tools from previous OS X versions I think the fine print is very important. I doubt Apple would care if this were a personal project. However if the OP intends to share his work then Apple might care (if only to protect their right to their IP).

In the case where the original installation media is long gone, does the hardware become legally unusable as a platform to develop on? If so, for what possible benefit to Apple or anyone else?

I’m not going to argue for or against. I simply see no logic in the OP’s mission impossible. But if that’s the pursuit, please don’t let me stop anyone.

My advice in short is to use the available resources from Apple, and to buy retail copies of OS X on the second hand market. Where is a possible breach in terms with this?

 

[pl1984]

In the case where the original installation media is long gone, does the hardware become legally unusable as a platform to develop on? If so, for what possible benefit to Apple or anyone else?

Unless you can demonstrate you have a legal license to use the software the answer would be no, you cannot. Even having the physical media cannot guarantee you possess a legal license to use the software.

So how do you use a system? The only way I can think of, and this is only my opinion and not legal advice, is to install the same version of the OS which shipped with the system. All Macs shipped with some OS version and that license is non-transferable. Therefore, by virtue of having the system, you are licensed to use the version of OS which shipped with it (or, if it is capable of running a version which Apple made freely available, then those version(s) too). I do this with Windows systems. If the system has an OEM COA or is BIOS enabled for Windows then it's licensed for that version of Windows. The same applies to my

 

[AphoticD]

If the machine originally shipped with a particular OS and you can restore that particular major revision (e.g 10.1.x) then you are using the OS implicitly licensed for that Mac hardware. The source of the installation media is second place and for the most part irrelevant.

Any other version on said particular machine would need to be sourced from a retail (licensed) copy of the OS and can be only purchased second hand.

Now in the case of 10.5 client; Apple have made this available from the dev downloads area at no further charge. There were no PowerPC Macs which shipped with this version.

So with all of this understanding, an option for the OP could therefore be to peruse EveryMac or Mactracker to research which machines shipped with which OS version, locate and purchase each particular Mac, Install the appropriate major revision of the OS for this Mac, then designate a Mac for Leopard.

The problem is solved legitimately without needing to buy up any particular (or superfluous) copy of OS X.