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jwolf6589

macrumors 601
Original poster
Dec 15, 2010
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Colorado
I have not heard about it in a while but did Apple ever get the blood oxygen feature resolved? When I bought my 9 I bought at Best Buy so I have the feature. But I wonder about future Apple watch models.
 
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Crowbot

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May 29, 2018
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I haven't heard anything recently either. It's going to have to work its way through the courts or Apple will have to purchase the rights to Masimo's patents. I don't think this one feature is so important to Apple that they see it as vital. As with most things with Apple, it'll get fixed eventually. Or quietly dropped.
 
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PaladinGuy

macrumors 68000
Sep 22, 2014
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It still is not resolved. I think they’re going to have to either pay Massimo or redesign their sensor before we’ll see spO2 again on Apple Watches.
 

Thirio2

macrumors regular
Jun 27, 2019
184
111
Maryville, IL
Although Apple has to spend a lot of money fighting patent trolls, this is one time Apple is clearly wrong. Now in their greed they are spending lots of money fighting rather than admitting they are wrong and agreeing to a settlement. The only thing Apple understands is will it cost more to settle or to face lawsuits for disabling the O2 feature.
 
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Crowbot

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May 29, 2018
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Although Apple has to spend a lot of money fighting patent trolls, this is one time Apple is clearly wrong. Now in their greed they are spending lots of money fighting rather than admitting they are wrong and agreeing to a settlement. The only thing Apple understands is will it cost more to settle or to face lawsuits for disabling the O2 feature.
Large companies rarely admit that they are wrong outright. Hopefully, Apple will quietly license the tech from Masimo. I used to work with their medical grade products. It's in the top two with Nellcor.
 

jwolf6589

macrumors 601
Original poster
Dec 15, 2010
4,859
1,608
Colorado
I haven't heard anything recently either. It's going to have to work its way through the courts or Apple will have to purchase the rights to Masimo's patents. I don't think this one feature is so important to Apple that they see it as vital. As with most things with Apple, it'll get fixed eventually. Or quietly dropped.
So after my series 9 it is finished. Thanks..
 

Jackbequickly

macrumors 68030
Aug 6, 2022
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I like And use the feature and will not be replacing my Ultra 2 until Apple get things resolved.
 

Crowbot

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May 29, 2018
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It depends on how badly Apple wants pulse ix in the watch. I think they did it initially because it was relatively easy. A couple of LEDs and a sensor. The magic is in the reading algorithm and Apple may have cut some corners putting that together.
 

Jackbequickly

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Aug 6, 2022
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From what I gathered, the hardware did not violate the patent, it was the software that did. I think they should be able to fix that.
 

Crowbot

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May 29, 2018
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From what I gathered, the hardware did not violate the patent, it was the software that did. I think they should be able to fix that.
The accuracy of the unit is directly tied to the quality of the detection algorithm. That's what Masimo is trying to protect. Nellcor has one too. Masimo's edge was detection during movement. I remember the salesperson waving his hand with one of their sensors on his finger. The reading was spot on.
 
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Saturn007

macrumors 68000
Jul 18, 2010
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I remember the salesperson waving his hand with one of their sensors on his finger. The reading was spot on.

Interesting! How did you know that the “reading was spot on”? What other independent device did the salesperson use to “prove” that?

Does Nelcorr not work during movement?

By the way, you're supposed to sit quietly during the oxygen reading with an Apple Watch, so Apple must not have done a very good job of stealing Masimo's algorithm and intellectual property! 😁

I agree with others — it's a valuable feature and has been validated against medical grade devices! Altjough it reads a bit lower when > 90 and a bit higher when < 90 — the opposite of what one would want. But several of the medical researchers who have studied it concluded that it was a viable way of measuring blood oxygen levels and good for health monitoring.
 
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Jackbequickly

macrumors 68030
Aug 6, 2022
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The accuracy of the unit is directly tied to the quality of the detection algorithm. That's what Masimo is trying to protect. Nellcor has one too. Masimo's edge was detection during movement. I remember the salesperson waving his hand with one of their sensors on his finger. The reading was spot on.

‘One can not complain about protecting it rights. Apple protects theirs.
 

Crowbot

macrumors 68000
May 29, 2018
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Interesting! How did you know that the “reading was spot on”? What other independent device did the salesperson use to “prove” that?
We checked it against the reading when it was still. And against the Nellcor product we were using. The Masimo didn't change when he moved.

Does Nelcorr not work during movement?

No, it stopped reading when the movement started. The way it was designed.

By the way, you're supposed to sit quietly during the oxygen reading with an Apple Watch, so Apple must not have done a very good job of stealing Masimo's algorithm and intellectual property! 😁

Ideally, yes. But some patients cannot control their movements so the Masimo was an improvement there.

I agree with others — it's a valuable feature and has been validated against medical grade devices! Altjough it reads a bit lower when > 90 and a bit higher when < 90 — the opposite of what one would want. But several of the medical researchers who have studied it concluded that it was a viable way of measuring blood oxygen levels and good for health monitoring.

I agree too. I have an AW9 and I'm glad it has the feature enabled.
 

Thomas Davie

macrumors 6502a
Jan 20, 2004
694
433
As an academic curiosity, if I buy 🇨🇦 Apple Watches with the O2 feature enabled and send them to my 🇺🇸 friends, will this feature be auto-disabled when they; a) pair the watch for the first time, b) gave the first software update or c) never?

I think the feature will be active until the first software update (on their US iPhone/US account, and essentially useless unless able to get 🇨🇦 updates


?? About this

Tom
 

JonaM

macrumors regular
Sep 26, 2017
178
193
As an academic curiosity, if I buy 🇨🇦 Apple Watches with the O2 feature enabled and send them to my 🇺🇸 friends, will this feature be auto-disabled when they; a) pair the watch for the first time, b) gave the first software update or c) never?

I think the feature will be active until the first software update (on their US iPhone/US account, and essentially useless unless able to get 🇨🇦 updates


?? About this

Tom
The ban prohibits Apple in the USA from selling the items, not users having it, so as long as you don't buy from an Apple Store in the USA you should get a working watch that continues to function
 

Bichon

macrumors regular
Oct 17, 2019
236
358
Nothing gets auto-disabled. Watches with the Oxygen saturation feature disabled come out of the box that way, and can be easily differentiated from the ones that don't by a suffix of LW/A on the end of the model number.
 

Thomas Davie

macrumors 6502a
Jan 20, 2004
694
433
I use the graphing features in the app (cheap) Heartwatch and track my SPO2 levels and every times I get my Aranest (Erythropoetin injection to stimulate production of red blood cells > Hemeglobin) my SPO2 tracks upwards.

XIdNYQOl.png



The areas in the graph that are red are lower threshold limits I set, and when I go into dialysis if I think I need it, I show the staff my SPO2 readings (although they are monitored every week anyways).

I find it a very useful tool to help manage dialysis. ^^ This is about 6 months of compressed data. The weekly/monthly graphs are what I show staff. Typically the Aranest injections are given 1-4 times per month. I can also draw coorelations to how many steps/day I can make/take. The ultimate determination is my actual SPO2 level(s) from a physical blood test.

Tom
 
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Thomas Davie

macrumors 6502a
Jan 20, 2004
694
433
This is a summary of the data for today so far. Since starting dialysis in November, 2017 my latter half of my evenings sleep trends lower in SPO2. This isn’t unusual for me, and isn’t a concern or requiring Aranest until my SPO2 trends lower in my waking hours. Thought it may be of interest in seeing SPO2 levels from someone who is cyclically anemic (I guess that would be the medical term; I’ll ask tomorrow.
BfNYyT1l.png


Tom
 

Ghost31

macrumors 68040
Jun 9, 2015
3,393
5,248
Yeah it was kinda trippy seeing the “overnight vitals” part where it showed o2 and i was reminded “oh yeah doesn’t the watch not have that anymore?”

i guess its not the biggest deal in the world, but i can see why people are let down by apple dropping this feature for now. Seems like their ego may have gotten in the way and they thought they had enough power to do whatever they want. For now people with newer watches can buy a cheap o2 sensor and manually input it i guess
 
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