Breakdown Flashlight: Alkaline vs Lithium

[Ambrosia7177]

I could use some advice on the best type of flashlight to buy to be stored in my car trunk and used as a "breakdown" flashlight.

In the old days, you didn't have many choices, so you likely ended up with a cheap plastic flashlight from K-Mart with alkaline "D" batteries.

Yesterday I saw a really slick looking mini flashlight that claims to have 700 lumens yet is the size of a small pickle!

However, as I was buying it tonight, I saw that it uses lithium batteries. (Not sure if they are lithium or lithium-ion.)

Either way, after frequently hearing about people's iPhones and MacBook catching on fire, it got me to thinking that maybe buying a "breakdown" flashlight that uses lithium-based batteries isn't such a good idea?!

To further complicate matters, in another thread of mine, I was advised *not* to leave an iPhone in my car glovebox year-round because it will kill the battery for good due to the extreme temperature changes. (I wanted to buy an extra iPhone and leave it in my car so I always have a decent, yet small, camera with me.)

So back to my "breakdown" flashlight...

What is the best way to go?

Seems to me that those old-fashioned $5 alkaline battery flashlights from K-Mart usually lasted for a couple years in our cars before we had to replace the batteries, but then maybe that is my senility kicking in?!

 

[ucfgrad93]

The problem with keeping batteries like that in your truck is the heat that builds up. I would suggest that you get a flashlight that you can carry on your person instead.

 

[0388631]

LED flashlight. Ideally you want something with high lumens. Buy cheap but decent batteries. Replace batteries every 4-6 months.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

The problem with keeping batteries like that in your truck is the heat that builds up. I would suggest that you get a flashlight that you can carry on your person instead.

It's a breakdown flashlight in case i break down somewhere or have an emergency.

Would you strap a first-aid kit to your back for fear that your bandaides might get damp in your vehicle in the winter?

This was never an issue in "the old days", but I'm not sure what would happen with the lithium battery flashlight I was looking at...
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LED flashlight. Ideally you want something with high lumens. Buy cheap but decent batteries. Replace batteries every 4-6 months.

Yes, the lithum flashlight I bought is LED. But it comes with Lithium batteries...

So is it dangerous to store lithium batteries in my car trunk?

(I'm not in Texas right now, but in the summer it will get in the 90s outside and maybe hooter in my trunk.)

I would be pissed if I burnt my car to the ground because a lithium flashright battery exploded/caught fire.

And even if that didn't happen, would a lithium battery die quicker than an alkaline battery?

I bought the 700-lumen lithium flashlight and also a 300-lumen (?) alkaline flashlight as a backup.

Figured I would come here and try to get educated on the pros and cons of each, and any risks that I should know about in advance!!

 

[0388631]

Going to be honest here, I'm not sure. I've never heard of a lithium battery exploding on its own unless it was punctured or exposed to direct heat. If it makes you feel better, Tesla home batteries and Tesla cars use lithium battery technology. A trunk isn't exposed to direct sunlight, but most AA batteries can operate up to 60C or just over 140F. Personally, I use Eneloop batteries which are NiMh. They're rechargeable and have a battery discharge rate than anything else I've used. They're designed to work in cold and hot.

I can't remember the last time I bought traditional batteries.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

Going to be honest here, I'm not sure. I've never heard of a lithium battery exploding on its own unless it was punctured or exposed to direct heat.

It seems you hear a lot in the news about laptops and smartphones (?) catching fire on planes and such, no?

If it makes you feel better, Tesla home batteries and Tesla cars use lithium battery technology.

But Tesla uses Lithium ION batteries, and obviously they have to produce a better product than a flashlight battery, so not sure that is a good comparison.

A trunk isn't exposed to direct sunlight

I just bought a collapseable cooler by CleverMade, and I figure that if I store things like my flashlight in there, even on a 100 F day, that should be enough. (I wouldn't think your trunk would get as hot as your dashboard or even the inside of your car which gets sun through the glass from all directions?!)

but most AA batteries can operate up to 60C or just over 140F. Personally, I use Eneloop batteries which are NiMh. They're rechargeable and have a battery discharge rate than anything else I've used. They're designed to work in cold and hot.

I can't remember the last time I bought traditional batteries.

So would you lean towards the alkaline flashlight?

Here are the two competing flashlights I bought at Target...

Energizer Vision HD Performance - Flashlight - LED - 3-mode - daylight

Energizer Led Vision HD Performance Tactical Light, Black

 

[0388631]

It seems you hear a lot in the news about laptops and smartphones (?) catching fire on planes and such, no?

Damaged and or third-party batteries. Aircraft are also pressurized to an altitude greater than most people live at. This includes the cargo hold. You're comparing apples to oranges here.

But Tesla uses Lithium ION batteries, and obviously they have to produce a better product than a flashlight battery, so not sure that is a good comparison.

Lithium ions are built slightly differently to be able to be charged. The concept isn't radically different here.

I just bought a collapseable cooler by CleverMade, and I figure that if I store things like my flashlight in there, even on a 100 F day, that should be enough. (I wouldn't think your trunk would get as hot as your dashboard or even the inside of your car which gets sun through the glass from all directions?!)

SUVs typically don't have a true separation between the trunk and the main cabin apart from a felt covered privacy extension.

So would you lean towards the alkaline flashlight?

Here are the two competing flashlights I bought at Target...

Personally, I'd rather spend a similar amount or more on a higher quality flashlight. I recommend looking and asking for options on Candle Power. I don't post there anymore and haven't in years to be honest, though everyone is very friendly. With a roadside flashlight, you ideally want as much light possible. That and higher quality flashlights come with features like strobing or rapid flashing patterns, such as SOS, built into them.


Your idea of using a small cooler isn't a bad idea at all.
[doublepost=1557006506][/doublepost]And while you're at it, I'd look into collapsible light-up traffic cones/roadside emergency cones. High-visibility safety vest doesn't hurt either.

 

[Gutwrench]

How about a regular flashlight and a bunch of chemlights?

 

[BigMcGuire]

Leaving lithium ion batteries in your car is a bad idea. It gets way too hot, even in the glove box, for anything like that to exist.

I've been using these flashlights for years now: https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Tactic...er+flashlight&qid=1557008300&s=gateway&sr=8-3

Even on the lowest brightness it is brighter than my 4D Maglite.

Last time I needed a flashlight when I was in a situation like a flat tire = my cellphone's flashlight did the job very well.

 

[0388631]

How about a regular flashlight and a bunch of chemlights?

Another fine choice but I've never liked the chemlights you could buy as a regular Joe. Most of them seem to be low power and aimed at the EDM groups.

 

[Gutwrench]

Another fine choice but I've never liked the chemlights you could buy as a regular Joe. Most of them seem to be low power and aimed at the EDM groups.

White phosphorus illum? You just have to complete the repair in 30 seconds.

 

[0388631]

White phosphorus illum? You just have to complete the repair in 30 seconds.

No, Barto. The light sticks you can buy in stores generally aren't big and bright enough like the ones government, local or national, order from. The ones I recall using were maybe an inch to an inch and a half thick and nearly a foot long. Snap it in the middle or whack it on the side of a Suburban's bumper or whatever car we'd taken from the vehicle pool. It gave off a relatively bright glow for at least 4 hours. Put it in a tube and tape the end off and you had a really ghetto flashlight with a restricted beam path if you didn't want glow all around you.

Most of the ones you get today are thin, small and weak.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

Damaged and or third-party batteries. Aircraft are also pressurized to an altitude greater than most people live at. This includes the cargo hold. You're comparing apples to oranges here.

Okay.

SUVs typically don't have a true separation between the trunk and the main cabin apart from a felt covered privacy extension.

I have a Honda car.

Personally, I'd rather spend a similar amount or more on a higher quality flashlight. I recommend looking and asking for options on Candle Power. I don't post there anymore and haven't in years to be honest, though everyone is very friendly. With a roadside flashlight, you ideally want as much light possible. That and higher quality flashlights come with features like strobing or rapid flashing patterns, such as SOS, built into them.

So much to research and so little time.

Am unpackaging my two flashlights now and going to try them out since it is night time.

Will have to research "quality" flashlights when I have time.

How much should I expect to spend?


How about some of the flashlights here...

Our Top 9 Picks - Best Tactical Flashlight Reviews for 2019?

https://outdoorsmagazine.net/best-tactical-flashlight/

Your idea of using a small cooler isn't a bad idea at all.

I haven't tried it out yet, but figured it was better than a duffle bag. Hopefully it keeps most of the heat/cold/humidity/dampness out?!

And while you're at it, I'd look into collapsible light-up traffic cones/roadside emergency cones. High-visibility safety vest doesn't hurt either.

Good idea. Yeah, this started out as a carry over from a travel bag I was building for myself, and I figured maybe I should try to organize/compress/improve what's in my trunk.

 

[0388631]

There's decent Chinese made 1,000 lumen lights with decent throw that use normal batteries. The good stuff tend to use rechargable li-on batteries because of their higher lumens and throw. Alternatively, you could buy a handheld battery powered spotlight or LED lantern.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

There's decent Chinese made 1,000 lumen lights with decent throw that use normal batteries. The good stuff tend to use rechargable li-on batteries because of their higher lumens and throw. Alternatively, you could buy a handheld battery powered spotlight or LED lantern.

Any thoughts on any of the flashlights in the last link I provided? (That was the first one that came up in Google for "LED flashlight review"

I think a few of those use AA alkalines...

 

[Gutwrench]

Most of the ones you get today are thin, small and weak.

Biting my tongue. Must resist. Must resist.

 

[0388631]

Any thoughts on any of the flashlights in the last link I provided? (That was the first one that came up in Google for "LED flashlight review"

I think a few of those use AA alkalines...

Surefire, Streamlight and Nitecore are brands I recognize. Don't recommend the latter. Fenix is a good substitute.

If battery wasn't a concern for you, I'd have recommended the Emisar D4, which is under $40. Newer than older variants, no fancy stupid stuff like the D5 you'll never appreciate. Lasts forever. Various modes.
[doublepost=1557069413][/doublepost]

Biting my tongue. Must resist. Must resist.

I'm sure you can find something slender to pop in your mouth.

 

[Gutwrench]

I'm sure you can find something slender to pop in your mouth.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

If battery wasn't a concern for you, I'd have recommended the Emisar D4, which is under $40. Newer than older variants, no fancy stupid stuff like the D5 you'll never appreciate. Lasts forever. Various modes.

Is my initial fear of a lithium battery catching on fire in my car trunk a legitimate concern?

And would this concern apply to rechargeable alkaline batteries?

Lastly, how do lithium vs rechargeable lithium vs rechargeable alkaline compare to old-fashioned AA or AAA alkaline batteries when it comes to...

a.) Withstanding extreme heat and cold like you'd experience in a car trunk?

b.) Affecting how bright your flashlight is? (i.e. Is brightness entirely a function of the element or does it also matter what type of battery you use?)

 

[0388631]

Is my initial fear of a lithium battery catching on fire in my car trunk a legitimate concern?

And would this concern apply to rechargeable alkaline batteries?

Lastly, how do lithium vs rechargeable lithium vs rechargeable alkaline compare to old-fashioned AA or AAA alkaline batteries when it comes to...

a.) Withstanding extreme heat and cold like you'd experience in a car trunk?

b.) Affecting how bright your flashlight is? (i.e. Is brightness entirely a function of the element or does it also matter what type of battery you use?)

That's a very good question. For people such as us who live in areas where it can exceed 90* ambient air during the summer, the concern is real. I don't want to put too much faith in my answers because I never thought of what could happen. I do know that a trunk usually doesn't get as hot as inside a car or a surface compartment like a glovebox. You can ask around if you want to be certain.

As for your other questions.

1) IMO it depends on the manufacturing of the battery; high quality unit or not. Eneloops operate well under heat and I believe down to -20F where they'll begin to fail.

2) Depends on the battery. Also depends on the controller for the flashlight if it's got one. To give you an idea, the D4 under the right conditions is able to light a cigarette if you're patient enough.

 

[HDFan]

Doing a google search there are not a lot hits of car fires started by flashlights, but looks as if they do occur:

https://www.kltv.com/2019/01/23/flashlight-battery-causes-car-fire-kilgore-college-campus/

This was Texas, but in January.

When there was an attributable cause it was due to an engine fire. I'm not including the fire where the driver had been shot in the head.

And here's a police station event:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...tation-fire/85jN1MP0GuuKFhwaIRZV6N/story.html

And a CDC report about an explosion in a firefighters pocket:

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/97-149/default.html

In graduate school I got a knock on my door and someone said "Your car is on fire". Indeed it was. Luckily someone saw that the back seat was on fire and had called the fire department. They had already put it out, so not much damage other than having to replace the rear seat. The cause? A 5 gallon water bottle on the back seat! The sun had hit the bottle in a way that magnified the light intensity as it hit the seat and it caused a fire.

 

[xiufengcooking]

The range of emergency lights is quite diverse today. They differ not only in design but also in purpose. The most important characteristic is the operating time in emergency mode. I ordered myself https://www.amazon.com/Vont-Flashlight-Flashlights-Water-Resistant-Accessories/dp/B089T8HDBV two weeks ago. Btw, an important aspect is also the power supply circuits of emergency lighting. It is influenced by the power supply and the location of the emergency lighting fixtures. I hope you will be able to find a way out.

 

[pshufd]

I have an Anker USB chargeable flashlight and it can put out 900 lumens. It has a Lithium battery which is charged via MicroUSB cable. You can remove and/or replace the battery. I have had another flashlight that could put out 3,000 lumens but I apparently damaged it by using a charger that put out too much power.

This flashlight is used at home, though. If I bring it with me, it would be in my backpack. It could also be used as a weapon should the need arise.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

There is no need to buy tactical flashlights unless one is involved on police or military tactical operations, or because money to buy expensive flashlights like that is not an issue. Lithium batteries are used in cameras, laptops, phones, and a myriad of electronic devices that rely on batteries that are rechargeable and take longer to discharge (pack more capacity). These lithium batteries are different than the ones used in automobiles. To the OP of this thread: would you leave your laptop, or your camera in the trunk of your car during a hot day in Texas? While EV's have battery temperature management systems, cellphones, cameras, iPads, and so on don't. Laptops have cooling fans that energize as needed when you are using it, but not when stored somewhere.

My wife and I have 20 or more flashlights, including headlamps, and perhaps two or more tactical flashlights, none of which use rechargeable batteries. The batteries we use are Alkaline AAA and AA cells, 123, C cells, and D. These batteries are relatively inexpensive and last a long time. The headlamps use AAA batteries, and so several flashlights that cost under $15.00, including the Chinese made LUX-PRO LP600 and LP-400 (look at Amazon). While I still have some expensive flashlights that use 123 battery cells, we not longer used them because these alkaline cells were very expensive when we bought the flashlights.

Coast makes a good flashlight as you can see below (look at the specifications). It costs about $29.00 at Amazon. It is one of my favorite flashlights because it can be adjusted to project a bean or floodlight, and uses 4 AA battery cells.

COAST POLYSTEEL 600 1000 Lumen LED Flashlight with Pure Beam Twist Focus, Stainless-Steel Core, Crushproof, Black

Tackle tough work with tough-as-nails lighting. Delivering full size power from a full-size, 8-inch body, the PS600 flashlight matches lighting performance with the legendary strength of COAST POLYSTEEL design. With a run time of up to 40 hours on low, this three-mode workhorse maxes out at 1000 ...

www.amazon.com

You will notice that most flashlight brands include some "tactical" models that cost around $30.00, but what you want to do is to choose flashlights by "lumens (400 and 600 Lumens are fine, but 700 or more are very bright)," LED lamps, and battery cell type. I don't spend my money on rechargeable cells for flashlights, and this includes lithium batteries. Lithium may take longer to discharge which is a good thing if used in portable power tools (drills, drivers, and so on), but the flashlight Alkaline batteries are cheap and last long enough.

By the way, I live in the interior of Alaska where by December 22nd (or so) we only have about one hour of daylight, thus the number of flashlights I mentioned above.

 

[myscrnnm]

I think a lot of people are confusing lithium with the more common rechargeable lithium-ion batteries found in consumer devices. They have different chemistries, and have different characteristics that give them different pros and cons. Primary cell lithium batteries have very high energy density and extremely long shelf lives compared to alkaline and lithium-ion batteries, which makes them ideal for emergency devices like flashlights.

I use a SureFire P3X Fury that I keep in my car all the time. It's incredibly compact compared to a Maglite, being not much thicker than a highlighter. Most SureFire flashlights are also pretty short (the P3X shown below is longer than most because it uses three batteries rather than two, like most fullsize SureFire models).