Buying 1st iMac for video editing 1080p

[Mr Garbaggio]

Ok I've been trying to search the threads to find a definitive answer but cant seem to find one. I recently bought a Canon HF S200 which can record in 1080p 24fps. I'm now looking into buying an iMac 27" i7 and Final Cut Express to edit the videos. I'm pretty positive, from reading previous threads, that FCE does not support 1080p. I would like to be able to record on my Canon in 1080p, edit the video and then burn to dvd or blu-ray. I just need a straight forward answer on how to keep the quality from the camera to computer to tv. I dont see the point in buying a camera that records in 1080p if I'm not going to be able to watch it on my tv in the same resolution. All I want is 1080p to 1080p, NOT 1080p to 720p, or 1080p to 1080i or anything of the sort. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm also open to using other software besides FCE. However purchasing Final Cut Pro might be a little out of my price range so something close to the price of FCE would be great.

P.S. Thanks again. I'm looking forward to making the convert to mac.

 

[kev6677]

good luck

Good luck MAC's suck at HD video editing for the average consumer, if you want to spend a couple more G's in software maybe you will be able to edit and convert back to 1080P as of right now MAC's cannot even do a m2ts to m2ts conversion natively instead it converts to crappy mov which is useleess on your HDTV.

 

[martinX]

I think FCE only does 1080i.

Enhancement request made.

 

[KeithPratt]

I would like to be able to record on my Canon in 1080p, edit the video and then burn to dvd or blu-ray. I just need a straight forward answer on how to keep the quality from the camera to computer to tv. I dont see the point in buying a camera that records in 1080p if I'm not going to be able to watch it on my tv in the same resolution. All I want is 1080p to 1080p, NOT 1080p to 720p, or 1080p to 1080i or anything of the sort.

I'm not au fait with the camera or the latest Final Cut Express, but as a general point it should be noted that a lot of "P" material is actually PsF. What PsF means is that although the sensor works in progressive mode, it records as interlaced. You'll find this in the most basic AVCHD camcorders, right up to the very highest quality professional production equipment (it's pretty likely Avatar was recorded PsF).

It can be difficult to get accurate precise information on the web, so I'd contact Canon and ask them whether their "24p" is 23.976p, 23.976PsF as 48.952i or 23.976PsF as 59.94i. (Note that a lot of these numbers are often rounded up in product literature and settings, with 23.976 often referred to as 23.98 or 24, and 59.94 as 60.) Which software can achieve what you want can be assessed when you know exactly what your camera is spitting out.

Good luck MAC's suck at HD video editing for the average consumer

Nice one! LOLZ!!!

 

[Cave Man]

I'm pretty positive, from reading previous threads, that FCE does not support 1080p. I would like to be able to record on my Canon in 1080p, edit the video and then burn to dvd or blu-ray.

While you can burn files to Blu-ray discs using Toast, you won't get Blu-ray Disc Authoring on a Mac as there is no software since the rules governing Blu-ray playback are highly intrusive of the OS (i.e., "bag of hurt"). You also won't get HD from the DVD specification since it's not supported. If your DVD or Blu-ray player can handle other codecs that iMovie or Final Cut support, then you could get HD video.

Good luck MAC's suck at HD video editing for the average consumer,

iMovie and Final Cut do 1080p just fine.

if you want to spend a couple more G's in software maybe you will be able to edit and convert back to 1080P as of right now MAC's...

"MAC" is an ethernet term.

...cannot even do a m2ts to m2ts conversion natively instead it converts to crappy mov which is useleess on your HDTV.

There is no relevance of a container to playback on an HDTV.

I think FCE only does 1080i.

Yes, it does 1080p - you have to choose File > Export > Using QuickTime conversion... I have no idea why Apple makes this harder than it should be, but I suspect it's not in the standard Export option because 1080p cameras weren't too common when FCE4 was released. But still, a simple updater would fix that.

 

[kev6677]

More crap from the fanboy posters . been using windows for editing HD video from day 1 no problems .After switching to mac just headaces and "A BAG OF HURT" Jobs said it right it's really hurtfull that a $1500.00 computer cannot even play a bluray disc far less to edit it.

 

[Cave Man]

More crap from the fanboy posters . been using windows for editing HD video from day 1 no problems .After switching to mac just headaces and "A BAG OF HURT" Jobs said it right it's really hurtfull that a $1500.00 computer cannot even play a bluray disc far less to edit it.

Blu-ray has never been an option for a Mac, so why did you even buy one? Sounds like you made a poor decision if that's your principal reason for buying one. The licensing terms for Blu-ray are objectionable to Apple from a business standpoint. That's what they've decided, and that's how it is.

Oh, and you can play Blu-ray discs on Macs provided you have the right software.

 

[kev6677]

Blu-ray has never been an option for a Mac, so why did you even buy one? Sounds like you made a poor decision if that's your principal reason for buying one. The licensing terms for Blu-ray are objectionable to Apple from a business standpoint. That's what they've decided, and that's how it is.

You said it right "Blu-ray has never been an option for a Mac", I'm glad we agreed on that my point exactlly the title of this tread is on this exact topic . As i said on my first reply to the original thread.

MAC's suck at HD editing..............

 

[Cave Man]

You said it right "Blu-ray has never been an option for a Mac", I'm glad we agreed on that my point exactlly the title of this tread is on this exact topic . As i said on my first reply to the original thread.

"Blu-ray" is not in the title. You might want to reread it since you seem confused.

So why did you buy a Mac if you wanted to play or author Blu-ray discs? You should have spent your money on a Windows PC. It's your fault that you're in this predicament, not Apple's. They have decided that the terms of Blu-ray are unacceptable since it requires code in the kernel of the OS and that discs can change that code. I don't blame them for not having support; the Blu-ray Disc Association needs to pull this because it was implemented to prevent disabling of HDCP and AACS encryption and prevent content copying, both of which have already been defeated. Blame the BDA (i.e., the Studios), not Apple.

MAC's suck at HD editing..............

No, they edit HD just fine. They just don't assemble audio, video and text tracts into m2ts containers like you want.

 

[kev6677]

Ok let me help you out cause you know very little or nothing about bluray....oh I forgot you use a MAC no wonder you are ignorant of the facts.


BLURAY = .MTS OR .M2TS or "AVCHD" WHICH = HIGH DEFINITION VIDEO (720P,1080i, 1080P)

got it... they are all the same if you have worked with bluray you would understand this.......

 

[Cave Man]

Ok let me help you out cause you know very little or nothing about bluray....oh I forgot you use a MAC no wonder you are ignorant of the facts.

Insults are against forum rules, and I suggest you avoid them as it will get you banned.

BLURAY = .MTS OR .M2TS or "AVCHD" WHICH = HIGH DEFINITION VIDEO (720P,1080i, 1080P)

Blu-ray is a physical medium that requires a laser of 405nm to read or write, and can contain many filetypes. M2TS is a container, just like mov, m4v, mkv and a host of other containers. M2TS can contain the streams you noted, but it can also contain 480p video and a variety of audio and text in a variety of codecs. But you don't have to have an m2ts container on a Blu-ray disc to play the files in that container. I have several movies in m2ts containers on my hard drives and I can play them just fine on my Macs.

got it... they are all the same if you have worked with bluray you would understand this.......

I'm quite clear on media. I certainly don't need you to tell me otherwise and I won't let you get away with posting misinformation.

 

[kev6677]

blah...blah.....blah..you are funny......LOL

enough said the poster of this thread has enough info to make a well informed decision he can either go with the fanboys "mac's are so great & wonderfull & trerriffic and great " or he can spend his hard earned cash elsewhere until these issues are fixed on the OSX platform

 

[Flynnstone]

Lets get back on track ...

It sounds like the poster wants to record in 1080p to display on a 1080p HD TV.
I'm in the same boat.
How to get from point A (1080p24 videocamera) to point B (1080p? output) with some editing in between.

What are the recording options in 1080? p24, p30, i60 ... what are the implications of each?
Can the Mac handle all or some of these formats? It can do Red so ...
1080p HDTV are very common, how to get the content on to them? My understand is 1080p24 from Bluray disk or Bluray format on DVD (~1/2 hr limit). But what about higher frame rates?
Perhaps links to info on the web?

 

[Cave Man]

Most consumer HD video cameras today record in AVCHD, which is not an edit-friendly file. The key is to take the raw AVCHD file (which for the HF S200 is in h.264 video apparently in an mts container) and convert it to an editable file. MPEG Streamclip can do this for most cameras, but I don't have experience with the HF S200. You should be able use MPEG Streamclip to convert the file to a 1080p Apple Intermediate Codec, which would then import into Final Cut or iMovie. If the camera is supported, then iMovie (supported) and FCE/FCP can import directly from the camera then convert it (called "rendering"). After that, you can edit it how you please, then export with the supported Quicktime codecs.

Once it's in a file, you can play it from a Mac to your TV using Quicktime - 1080p or other.

 

[Matty-p]

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Ok I've been trying to search the threads to find a definitive answer but cant seem to find one. I recently bought a Canon HF S200 which can record in 1080p 24fps. I'm now looking into buying an iMac 27" i7 and Final Cut Express to edit the videos. I'm pretty positive, from reading previous threads, that FCE does not support 1080p. I would like to be able to record on my Canon in 1080p, edit the video and then burn to dvd or blu-ray. I just need a straight forward answer on how to keep the quality from the camera to computer to tv. I dont see the point in buying a camera that records in 1080p if I'm not going to be able to watch it on my tv in the same resolution. All I want is 1080p to 1080p, NOT 1080p to 720p, or 1080p to 1080i or anything of the sort. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm also open to using other software besides FCE. However purchasing Final Cut Pro might be a little out of my price range so something close to the price of FCE would be great.

P.S. Thanks again. I'm looking forward to making the convert to mac.

I'm not sure if fce works with 1080 p I thought it did cis i thought a friend edits is 1080 p 5d footage in it but I may have misheard or miss remembered edit: on apple website it only mentions 1080i and 720p so thats a no for fce !
Outher equally as good options are available editing wise tho please look at adobe premier elements (cheaper but as good as fce) or iMovie 06 hd (pick up 06 iLife suite for about £30 on eBay )

As for playing back this 1080p footage will it need to be on a physical optical disc ie blueray or us it ok just to gie to friends over email internet youtube or just on a USB (you'll find nearly anybody can play stuff from a USB or from the net yet very litle people have acsess to a blueray player ?
Or are you happy to just play it back on either the tv or a computer ?
Also do you have a ps3?
Do you have a media sever or atv ?

 

[martinX]

Yes, it does 1080p - you have to choose File > Export > Using QuickTime conversion... I have no idea why Apple makes this harder than it should be, but I suspect it's not in the standard Export option because 1080p cameras weren't too common when FCE4 was released. But still, a simple updater would fix that.

But FCE's intermediate codec, AIC, is interlaced for 1920 x 1080.

 

[kev6677]

lies.. ... and more lies...all this nonsense about MOV, AIC, QUICTIME fact of the matter is your converted file will look nothing like the original once you play it back on your HDTV. most of these posters are apple fanboys or either they work for a production studio where they have hundreds of dollars to buy special software and hardware for HD editing on MAC. for the average consumer good luck apple choose to bury there head in the sand like an ostridge on this one,

 

[Cave Man]

But FCE's intermediate codec, AIC, is interlaced for 1920 x 1080.

I don't know much about Apple's Intermediate Codec because I don't use it. My 5Dii files (mov container with AVC video and 16-bit PCM audio) import straight into Final Cut Express, which then are rendered to an edited form for dropping onto the timeline or export. I'm sure you can open most AVCHD in MPEG Streamclip and save it as a DV or Quicktime movie for import into Final Cut Express. It may not be necessary depending on your camera since they support some video cameras that use AVCHD.

lies.. ... and more lies...all this nonsense about MOV, AIC, QUICTIME fact of the matter is your converted file will look nothing like the original once you play it back on your HDTV.

AVCHD is highly compressed to begin with (which is why it's not edit-friendly and needs to be rendered). I can't speak for the video camera that the OP is interested in, but the 5Dii makes great videos with FCE.

 

[martinX]

I'm sure you can open most AVCHD in MPEG Streamclip and save it as a DV or Quicktime movie for import into Final Cut Express.

MPEG Streamclip won't open MTS or M2T files. If it did and you transcoded them as DV files (preferably with the Quicktime MOV container so you don't have to keep rendering audio) then you'll be dropping your HD files down to standard def.

I don't know much about Apple's Intermediate Codec because I don't use it. My 5Dii files (mov container with AVC video and 16-bit PCM audio) import straight into Final Cut Express, which then are rendered to an edited form for dropping onto the timeline or export.

What are your sequence settings?

I can't speak for the video camera that the OP is interested in, but the 5Dii makes great videos with FCE.

I'm sure you do. However, the OP asked about a pure 1080p workflow through FCE which isn't possible.

KEV6677: it's all about the workflow...
For me: Canon HFS10 AVCHD file -> Final Cut Express on the iMac (which imports it as an AIC 1080i intermediate file) -> edit, cut, title, etc -> export as Quicktime (not self-contained) -> open in Quicktime X and "share" for AppleTV.

That last step creates a 720p MPEG4 file that seems to automagically have extra keyframes in at scene changes. If I was working with FCP and Compressor, I'd have to specify those points manually. Not bad for free software. I use the "share" function of Quicktime X so I don't have any interlacing hassles (which is the #1 problem for video). IMO, it looks great on the 50" plasma.

While I am a professional (in the sense I get paid to use FCP and Motion) I'm by no means an expert.

 

[KeithPratt]

However, the OP asked about a pure 1080p workflow through FCE which isn't possible.

Setting the field dominance to 'none' (assuming this can be done in FCE) will effectively turn a 1080i50 timeline into a 1080p25 one. Same story for 1080i59.94/p29.97. Assuming you can't generate your own sequence presets in FCE, you'll still have to edit 24p in a 1080i59.94 timeline with 3:2 pulldown.

That last step creates a 720p MPEG4 file that seems to automagically have extra keyframes in at scene changes. If I was working with FCP and Compressor, I'd have to specify those points manually.

Isn't that what setting keyframes to 'automatic' does in Compressor?

 

[puckhead193]

MAC's suck at HD editing..............

I edit video professionally and have no problems at all...

 

[martinX]

Setting the field dominance to 'none' (assuming this can be done in FCE) will effectively turn a 1080i50 timeline into a 1080p25 one. Same story for 1080i59.94/p29.97. Assuming you can't generate your own sequence presets in FCE, you'll still have to edit 24p in a 1080i59.94 timeline with 3:2 pulldown.

At work right now so I can't check, but I will look at it.

Isn't that what setting keyframes to 'automatic' does in Compressor?

DOH! Is that what that thing's for

 

[martinX]

Setting the field dominance to 'none' (assuming this can be done in FCE)

Just checked: no can do.

 

[chrono1081]

I edit video professionally and have no problems at all...

Neither does anyone else. All of the studios around here use Macs. I know because I have friends who work at them.

That guy was just a troll that is all...


EDIT: Speaking of HD editing, my one friend is bringing over Final Cut Studio and some project of his so he can edit on my machine. He's thinking of upgrading his mac pro tower and wants to give mine a whirl. I can't wait I've never seen Final Cut

 

[Mr Garbaggio]

Ok, just a quick update.

I ended up buying my first iMac i7 27" this weekend =). When I was at the store I asked the employee helping me if FCE would edit in 1080p. He said he didnt know so he asked 2 other employees which both said you could . . . but . . . I looked on the Apple website and I saw for myself that it doesnt. It says it can edit in HD (720p and 1080i) but no 1080p. I know the Apple employee said it could but people make mistakes so no biggie. I dont know what I'm gonna do, either save up for FCS or just be content with FCE and no 1080p. I just wish there was a simpler way of getting from Point A (Record 1080p) to Point B (Edit 1080p) to Point C (Playback 1080p).

While I figure out what I'm going to do about my editing situation, I can take the time to learn how to use my mac, being it my first one and having no prior experience at all. Welll, that's it for now but please keep the suggestions/advice/answers coming about recording/editing/playback of 1080p. I would still really like to hear more workarounds to the problem. Thanks