Bye Mac

[tywang2006]

As an senior ios/mac developer, I was using apple product for over ten years. The big reson why I decide to leave is that I can't afford any of them now. the price of all products especially macbook pro which i normally upgrade to the latest version very 3-4 yrs become extremely more and more expensive, I still remember I used to spend over 1400 pounds to get decent and best spec of 15 inch macbook pro several years ago. right now, I can't even get normal 13 inch macbook with touch bar at the same price. In order to develop app for mac and iphone, I have to choose the best macbook pro, which is not just due to the performance of the notebook to make my job done efficiently but also help me to prove the code correctly implemented with some new thing like mult-touch or touch bar. I can't believe apple can give student discount but never give developers discount. however, they keep earning money from the apps we made. I have no choose to leave. there are many cheap and decent windows laptop which I hate but i have to choose them. It is time for me to do java base Android app instead. I hate java but I have no choose. I dislike Android but I have no choose.

 

[Matt Leaf]

You have to bargain hunt. You can save $1000 off a MacBook Pro if you are prepared to bargain and get a deal. I too refuse to pay full price. Either that, or get a refurbished model. Don't forget, the United States economy was not good through 2008 - 2012, at that time the rest of the world got Macs cheap. What you are seeing now is readjusted prices because their dollar is strong again. Just try and find a sale or get a refurbished model.

 

[jkehaniii]

I don't fully understand your problem since I'm not a developer myself, but can't you just resort to developing for all iOS devices and macOS devices minus the touchbar products? Using your 3-4 year upgrade timeline wouldn't a 2013-2014 MacBook Pro be sufficient for most all developing needs?

 

[iregret]

As a

I don't fully understand your problem since I'm not a developer myself, but can't you just resort to developing for all iOS devices and macOS devices minus the touchbar products? Using your 3-4 year upgrade timeline wouldn't a 2013-2014 MacBook Pro be sufficient for most all developing needs?

CS major, yes. That being said, I don't know what kind of developer he/she is exactly, but it sounds like iOS or Mac OS? I mean, you can develop for anything with the correct tools, but most dev work doesn't require the most cutting edge hardware.

Yes apple stuff is expensive, but I've never had any issues with any of my gear. I've had the same MacBook since 2013. Ironically, I just got into a 2017, but I'm typing this on my 2013 because its all dialed in for me and I haven't figured out how I want to connect my external monitors yet.

Anyway, sorry apple stuff is more expensive? Good luck in your endeavors.

 

[OneMike]

If you're a developer you're making money so I don't really see the incentive to offer a discount on the crowd your products are tailored to. I'm a developer as well, just being realistic. My company gets discounts, but it's basically the same as student discounts, minus the beats.

That said, you don't necessarily need a macbook pro.

 

[tvith]

You're not alone in feeling like Apple's products are getting more and more overpriced, there's a whole thread on reddit regarding this. One of my fav

it costs $1400 to upgrade from 8GB to 64GB of RAM on the new iMac. That means they are charging more money for 56GB more RAM than they charge for the 128GB MacBook Pro which is $1299

 

[Mr. Dee]

If you are not making any money, why do you want the latest and best then? Unless you are freelance developer or hobbyist really wants nice stuff and you just like to code for code sake, then it really doesn't make any sense. If you work for a company, then you should at least get an income that lets you save towards it or have your employer pay part of it. That said, any entry level Mac, should be able to write apps for macOS and iOS. You see it every year at WWDC in the testimonial videos. Some of the devs are even using non-retina Macs which go back more than 5 years. So, I don't think you need to have a Touchbar Mac in order to develop a really good iPhone or Mac app.

 

[ancapman]

Macs have a minimum 4 year cycle where they are good. If you save $84 a month there is no conceivable MacBook Pro you can't upgrade to. Willing to "settle" for a $3000 machine? Save $62.50 a month. If you aren't making that much as a developer, you are in wrong business.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

2016 15" MBP - $2799
2012 15" MBP - $2799
2008 15" MBP - $2799
2006 15" MBP - $2499 (17" $2799)

2003 15" G4 - $2599
2001 15" G4 - ... $3997 (Starts at $2599).

All that makes the 2006 introduction more or less the same price as todays 15", taking inflation into account it was $3036 in todays money. Making todays MBP's much cheaper than they used to be.

That's just the launch prices though, naturally these prices drop over the course of each generations lifespan. So don't compare one at the end of its life (2015), to the beginning of a new generation (2016), $2499 and $2799 respectively.

I have no idea where you were buying top end 15" models for £1400, but they can't have been brand new models. Likely a few years old and/or refurbished.

Either way, the MBP's pricing has been very consistent over the years, and todays prices are nothing new. It is and always has been an expensive 'premium' device, and there has and always will be cheaper Windows computers available. This has never changed over the last 16 years and likely won't change for the next 16 years.

If you don't value the quality in respect of the price of the MBP's then you can go to Windows, or buy a cheaper/refurbished/older model.

 

[borntrouble]

2016 15" MBP - $2799
2012 15" MBP - $2799
2008 15" MBP - $2799
2006 15" MBP - $2499 (17" $2799)

2003 15" G4 - $2599
2001 15" G4 - ... $3997 (Starts at $2599).

All that makes the 2006 introduction more or less the same price as todays 15", taking inflation into account it was $3036 in todays money. Making todays MBP's much cheaper than they used to be.

That's just the launch prices though, naturally these prices drop over the course of each generations lifespan. So don't compare one at the end of its life (2015), to the beginning of a new generation (2016), $2499 and $2799 respectively.

I have no idea where you were buying top end 15" models for £1400, but they can't have been brand new models. Likely a few years old and/or refurbished.

Either way, the MBP's pricing has been very consistent over the years, and todays prices are nothing new. It is and always has been an expensive 'premium' device, and there has and always will be cheaper Windows computers available. This has never changed over the last 16 years and likely won't change for the next 16 years.

If you don't value the quality in respect of the price of the MBP's then you can go to Windows, or buy a cheaper/refurbished/older model.

Enlighten me, what has "not being able to afford the prices" to do with "not valuing the quality in respect of the price"? I think your comment is highly condescending and cynical.

 

[SoggyCheese]

The £ used to be worth $2.00 10 years ago. It's now worth $1.30. There's the reason for the price jump.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

As an senior ios/mac developer, I was using apple product for over ten years. The big reson why I decide to leave is that I can't afford any of them now. the price of all products especially macbook pro which i normally upgrade to the latest version very 3-4 yrs become extremely more and more expensive, I still remember I used to spend over 1400 pounds to get decent and best spec of 15 inch macbook pro several years ago. right now, I can't even get normal 13 inch macbook with touch bar at the same price. In order to develop app for mac and iphone, I have to choose the best macbook pro, which is not just due to the performance of the notebook to make my job done efficiently but also help me to prove the code correctly implemented with some new thing like mult-touch or touch bar. I can't believe apple can give student discount but never give developers discount. however, they keep earning money from the apps we made. I have no choose to leave. there are many cheap and decent windows laptop which I hate but i have to choose them. It is time for me to do java base Android app instead. I hate java but I have no choose. I dislike Android but I have no choose.

Enlighten me, what has "not being able to afford the prices" to do with "not valuing the quality in respect of the price"? I think your comment is highly condescending and cynical.

OP mentioned that they "Used to spend over 1400 pounds to get the decent and best spec of 15 inch MacBook Pro several years ago.". I was highlighting that has never been the case, it has always been the price is has been.

So not being able to afford todays models should not be a concern when understanding this simple fact. I mention not valuing the quality in terms of my earlier comment about them being a premium product, you have always paid a premium. And respecting that premium in regards of value has nothing to do with being able to afford or not afford something, that is not being condescending in any way. If you feel £2000 is too much for a computer, then you don't value the quality of the product, and are free to look elsewhere. Personally I feel it is a good and fair price, and have never found a cheaper product that did not compromise in some way, be it build quality or cheaper components. Now you might feel it is too high a price to pay, and grab a cheaper Windows laptop. This is fine, nothing wrong with it, but you cannot expect the same premium for a cheaper price.

That is all that was meant, nothing condescending or cynical. Just a statement of facts.

 

[Queen6]

OP mentioned that they "Used to spend over 1400 pounds to get the decent and best spec of 15 inch MacBook Pro several years ago.". I was highlighting that has never been the case, it has always been the price is has been.

So not being able to afford todays models should not be a concern when understanding this simple fact. I mention not valuing the quality in terms of my earlier comment about them being a premium product, you have always paid a premium. And respecting that premium in regards of value has nothing to do with being able to afford or not afford something, that is not being condescending in any way. If you feel £2000 is too much for a computer, then you don't value the quality of the product, and are free to look elsewhere. Personally I feel it is a good and fair price, and have never found a cheaper product that did not compromise in some way, be it build quality or cheaper components. Now you might feel it is too high a price to pay, and grab a cheaper Windows laptop. This is fine, nothing wrong with it, but you cannot expect the same premium for a cheaper price.

That is all that was meant, nothing condescending or cynical. Just a statement of facts.

Major factor is if the hardware is intrinsic to the workflow the cost is academic being a requirement. A similar spec Windows notebook built to equally high standards will reflect similar pricing. I rarely take into the account the pricing more what hardware & OS can deliver, if the system holds up, I do my end, the cost is irrelevant in the bigger picture.

Naturally much depends on the level, equally one must invest in oneself and and the tools required to be successful.

Q-6

 

[leman]

I still remember I used to spend over 1400 pounds to get decent and best spec of 15 inch macbook pro several years ago

I find it very unlikely. In 2013, the entry level MBP 15" was £1699. For 1400 you'd get a used one entry-level model without a dGPU... And looking years back, I can't find a single year where a 15" mac was below £1500+.

If you are complaining about weak pound performance, well, Apple is hardly to blame for it

 

[Strider64]

As a lowly developer myself I know I can get by with not the latest and greatest computer hardware. I've been working with computers since 1980 (maybe earlier my memory doesn't hold its status as it used too) and back then when we were programming we had to squeeze every bit of code into a script. We couldn't willy-nilly plaster code all over the place like I see a lot of programmers do nowadays. Heck even now I like fooling around with computers that don't have much in terms of computing power, but I sure can do some neat things with them. I recently purchase a Raspberry Pi 3 with a Raspberry Pi Camera for around $200.00 and it's amazing what one can do with it. I used to build my own computers before I switched over to Apple (It's only been the last 4 years I've been using Apple) and I can tell you from experience that today's computing has way more horsepower than early day computers ever had. Finally, I myself develop for the people using lower to mid-range computers in mind, for not everyone is going to have a top end computer. Unless you're a game developer (you probably wouldn't be developing on OS X even then I imagine games that run on low to mid-range will work just fine on high end computers) or do a lot of video developing even there I would imagine top end developers use computers that have more computing power then using a middle of the road computer isn't that bad of a thing.

 

[Mr. Dee]

I find it very unlikely. In 2013, the entry level MBP 15" was £1699. For 1400 you'd get a used one entry-level model without a dGPU... And looking years back, I can't find a single year where a 15" mac was below £1500+.

If you are complaining about weak pound performance, well, Apple is hardly to blame for it

I remember, that was back in 2012, I had saved up the money to buy one, but go disinterested. I think the entry level Touchbar 13 inch MBP has taken its place in 2017.

 

[leman]

I remember, that was back in 2012, I had saved up the money to buy one, but go disinterested. I think the entry level Touchbar 13 inch MBP has taken its place in 2017.

The "old-style" entry-level 15" MBP was still £1499 And it was only cheaper because it existed parallel to the newly introduced retina model, so it could leverage old, proven (and cheap) tech. In essence, that 2012 model was an outlier as it was the slightly revamped old computer at a discounted price.

 

[M5RahuL]

A developer.. who works for himself, these *purchases* could be tax write offs..