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Call for Help - Mac Marketshare at 1.7%?

jaw04005

jaw04005

macrumors 601
Original poster
Aug 19, 2003
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From the Call for Help Messageboard (TechTV)

"Don't think this plan may not of already been in place. Even though the ipod sales were very strong through the holidays Apple lost what little computer sales they had. Macs were 4% of the over all computer using world mid last year and in 4th quarter (Nov - Jan) the apple market share dropped to 1.7%. That's a HUGE drop that apples not really talking about. "

http://cgi.techtv.com/messageboards...=12&topic_id=96&thread_id=2692576&per_page=50

I think they are misinformed? I hadn't thought Mac marketshare has neither dropped nor rose over the past few years.

I like Call for Help and The Screen Savers just because of the small mac segments that they do. However, windows people get really pissed off when one of their hosts recommends a Mac. Its hilarious just to read the two show's message boards.

Josh
 
Guess what?

The marketshare is going to drop even further, no i'm not trolling either.

But you have to remember or take into account that Apple will never sell more computers than the entire PC industry so it stands to reason that their percentage will go down. Nothing we can do about it, the only way it would go up is if there were more macs being sold than pc's in any given moment.

However, most people don't realise this and continue to harp on that Apple is dying when infact their percentage is getting smaller.

Next year when OSX 10.4 is out Steve will say we will have 50 million people running it and that will be the only true indication about what our numbers will be. Percentages are irrelevent, the 25 million OSX users we have is what counts.
 
Why should Apple's profit be our bottom line? Marketshare is important for users because it has some relation to how many companies will make software for the mac.

Realistically, a marketshare drop would only really mean a drop in the number of games we get, which doesn't really bother me. I don't think we're going to be losing major apps any time soon.

CrackedButter:

Your logic on marketshare decreasing not implying that the number of users is decreasing makes sense. But shouldn't someone be able to estimate marketshare numbers that estimate the number of these macchines that are actually being used?
 
though apple is making money having marketshare getting smaller is not good. #1 reason is apple is selling to the pro's and continues to cripple every so called consumer product. you have billions of consumers outhere but apple doesnt want to sell to them. G5 was a year or two overdue and Apple continues to hold a allready slow g4 down even further in ibook/imac/emac so they cant compete with so called probooks or anything in the PC world. CPU is the most critical aspect in a computer and G4 is a very sad story and consumers know this. why buy another computer if it hasnt advanced? has G4 advanced? 1.33? come on Apple.
 
Originally posted by miloblithe
Why should Apple's profit be our bottom line? Marketshare is important for users because it has some relation to how many companies will make software for the mac.

Realistically, a marketshare drop would only really mean a drop in the number of games we get, which doesn't really bother me. I don't think we're going to be losing major apps any time soon.

CrackedButter:

Your logic on marketshare decreasing not implying that the number of users is decreasing makes sense. But shouldn't someone be able to estimate marketshare numbers that estimate the number of these macchines that are actually being used?
Click to expand...
The 25 million Mac users represent a population that is more than 3 times that of New York City. With a market that size, quite a few developers can be very successful if they serve it.
 
I used to read the TechTV boards and people tend to pull numbers out of thin air. So unless 1.7% was backed up with a good source I wouldn't believe it at all. Also, the Screensavers Mac board is the most trolled board I've ever seen.

Why all the discussion about market share anyway? Apple makes a good profit, which is all that really matters.
 
Originally posted by miloblithe
Why should Apple's profit be our bottom line? Marketshare is important for users because it has some relation to how many companies will make software for the mac.

Realistically, a marketshare drop would only really mean a drop in the number of games we get, which doesn't really bother me. I don't think we're going to be losing major apps any time soon.

CrackedButter:

Your logic on marketshare decreasing not implying that the number of users is decreasing makes sense. But shouldn't someone be able to estimate marketshare numbers that estimate the number of these macchines that are actually being used?
Click to expand...

How could you? Okay ask Dell how many machines it served, then add HP's and so forth, now compare it against Apples sales. But one thing you cannot add is the number of people who build their own machines or machines sold from smaller shops. There is no way of taking into account all the machines there is.

When steve quoted 25 million users he was quoting the OSX users only, there are still OS9 holdouts.

Its not possible to calculate it (but people do to skew results) and even if Apple continued to sell machines at the rate they are now the number is going to go down as well. Also the figures that are bandied about are the sales per quarter that are talked about.

All i care about when it comes to numbers is that Apple is making profit and then more and more profit with each quarter (indication of selling more products hence more OSX users) and whether a news report says their marketshare has gone up. Only 3 times has it done so, once for G4 Xserves (last year), once for laptops in the UK (yesterday) and another marketshare update for portables in the US.

Yes they are aiming their machines towards certain markets but their ways might change when the G5 is in more machines.
 
In the end Market share really doesn't matter - profit does. As long as Apple is posting a profit it means that they are selling enough machines to maintain the Mac user base, if not grow it. The reality that Market share doesn't show is longevity of the machines, nor user buying habits. Market share is simply how many machines each company sold in a segment, to anyone that wanted them, for any reason what so ever. For all we know Apple could have 10% consumer market share and less than 1% business market share and that ends up averaging out to around 2-3% because businesses bought 4 times as many machines that quarter. As long as Apple makes a profit however, it means that the Macintosh is here to stay - which means that their customers are here to stay and that 3rd party developers can make a profit selling to Mac users.

As for the 25 million users it does include all OSes - 40% of them (10 million) use some version of OS X, with the lion share of them being Jaguar & Panther. And for the record M$ would kill for those kinds of adoption rates :D .
 
don't believe everything you read on the internet. There is no data given to back that claim up.

First off, it IS possible for the marketshare to decrease and have the amount of Apple users - increase. Get over yuor obsession with marketshare numbers. The "Home Computer" numbers are higher than 4% anyway.
 
Somewhere I heard that Apple is like the only computer manufacturer drawing a profit now, or perhaps the largest profit?
 
Originally posted by 7on
Somewhere I heard that Apple is like the only computer manufacturer drawing a profit now, or perhaps the largest profit?
Click to expand...

Not largest or only, but I think the only PC manufacturer making a profit other than Apple is Dell. Don't know about HP tho - they did have more volume than Dell recently, but that doesn't mean they made a profit...
 
I just get a feeling that Apple's time for rewards for doing the right thing over the years and investing like crazy during the last recession is starting now and their payback in terms of sales and eventually market share, is going to be growing quite fast over the next 2 or 3 years.

For one, the PC makers high market share and low profit margins could really bite them on the butt within the next couple of years, because legislation on disposal of computers and use of environment friendly components is set to get really tight in Europe especially, and these extras could add $50 to the manufacturers' cost to produce and dispose of a PC.

This could be a "6-pointer" for Apple.

Apple make the highest profit in the PC industry and their computers last longer than most other manufacturers too. This makes them well placed to handle the $50 per unit increase. PC firms make a pittance per unit sold and are looking at the same extra $50 spread over 5 year life spans tops in the corporate PC sector, and even less time for consumer PCs. On such tight margins compared to Apple and higher replacement turnover, PC makers' cash flow could be really under pressure at current prices, so they would probably have no choice but to put up their prices. Apple on the other hand could make hay and maybe hold their prices, becoming closer to PC prices, and also take advantage of the undoubted public awareness of why PC prices have gone up. At last the public will "get" Apple's story that Macs are a very good deal for a number of previously unobvious reasons - ie 7 year lifespan means we dont have to scrap our computers so often, low wattage, sleep, recyclable, mega design pluses etc etc blah, blah, blah.

Also the stakes are high for MS these days. *nix is challenging them in the server field, especially in the Third world markets, (the untapped growth areas), who are not rolling over to embrace MS. Linux is grabbing public awareness for *nix, so it is easier for Apple to be accepted with their Unix based systems, that are very powerful and can accomodate all the common systems.

MS are also at a delicate time, fighting a couple of really big technological campaigns to grow their empire, and the outcomes could go either way. Firstly, if iTunes goes big and the EU antitrust verdicts also go wrong, WMA may not come off quite how MS foresaw. Control of music is an important part of MS overall strategy behind the scenes. Their second big plan to leverage their market share is the very contentious "Trusting Computing" policy. If the public are informed properly about those plans for Big Brother computing and at the same time Apple are grabbing mindshare with their apparently more open way of doing business, MS could become significantly unpopular with the public.

Also MS have a shedload invested in Longhorn, but over the next two or three years that is unlikely to be either bombproof stable or have enough features to blow OSX out the water. If Apple are placed by 2005/2006 to hit the market with an appealing entry level product loaded with iLife and 10.5 kicking ass, MS and their bedfellows could be seriously dented.

So, maybe look to see Mac sales percentage points ticking up over the next few years.
 
Originally posted by CrackedButter
Guess what?

The marketshare is going to drop even further, no i'm not trolling either.

But you have to remember or take into account that Apple will never sell more computers than the entire PC industry so it stands to reason that their percentage will go down. Nothing we can do about it, the only way it would go up is if there were more macs being sold than pc's in any given moment.
Click to expand...

lol that's wrong, learn maths pls :)
 
Originally posted by CrackedButter
How is it wrong?
Click to expand...

You said that Apple's market share will only go up if apple sells more CPUs than the PC industry (Macs Sold > PCs Sold). But that is not correct. Apple's market share can go up without that happening, as Mac Market share is Macs Sold / All Computers Sold. So Apple doesn't have to sell more CPUs than the PC industry, they just have to sell a larger fraction of the total computers sold - which can mean anything from selling more units to all the other manufacturers going out of business :D .
 
Apple Market Share

What the heck IS their market share?

From what I've read it seems to be rising.

For instance:

Thursday - September 04, 2003

Apple sees market share climb

By Macworld staff

Apple chief financial officer Fred Anderson offered an upbeat presentation to analysts at the Citigroup and Smith Barney-hosted 2003 Technology Conference yesterday, MacObserver reports.

Anderson discussed education and consumer market share increases, government sales and offered snippets of information with regard to Apple products.

He observed that Apple's consumer market share climbed from 1.5 per cent in June 2001 to 3.5 per cent in June 2003, adding that Apple's US education market share had also climbed, from 15 to 16 per cent.
 
Originally posted by CrackedButter
Isn't what you said the same thing as the thing i said, thats how i read it.
Click to expand...

Nope - here's why.

Macs Sold = 500
PC Sold = 1000

Macs Sold is not greater than PCs Sold. Market Share is 33% (10 times what was last reported).

Market Share is simply the % of computers sold in the last quarter, not the % of all computers ever sold or % of computers currently in use. That fact along is the #1 reason why Market Share is not a direct indicator of the health of a particular market segment (in order to use Market share for that you also need to know replacement % and life span of the product at least)
 
Apple is only one of hundreds or even thousands of computer manufacturers.
If you call the Mac a "PC"(which is essentially what it is), then the fact that they "only" have 1 or 2 or 5% of the entire market is not surprising, and in in this light, it's actually quite impressive.
I doubt they have the resources to supply more than 20-30% of the overall market anyway.

BTW, I 'd like to see the statistics for companies like Gateway and Dell.
Microsoft is irrelevant, since they do not manufacture computers.
 
Originally posted by CrackedButter
Guess what?

The marketshare is going to drop even further, no i'm not trolling either.

But you have to remember or take into account that Apple will never sell more computers than the entire PC industry so it stands to reason that their percentage will go down. Nothing we can do about it, the only way it would go up is if there were more macs being sold than pc's in any given moment.

...
Click to expand...
You are incorrect.

If Apple has 4% marketshare, they only need to continue selling 4% of all computers sold each year to maintain their marketshare. They don't need to outsell all the other PC makers combined.

And surprise, to increase market share, they only need to sell a bit more than the 4% they were already selling.

Note, the above mentioned 4% is not necessarily Apple's market share. It was used as an example. Although, I do believe that Apple's marketshare in the laptop/notebook segment is increasing.
 
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