Can I mix and match iLife versions? Plus initial startup questions :)

[Miss Terri]

Note: I maybe should have titled the thread "Can I run iLife 08 on a new MBP that came with Snow Leopard and iLife 09," but now I see I cannot edit the title.

Hello all,

This is my first post here, although I've been reading the forum and main rumors page for some time.

I know I should be keeping this short, so everyone won't give up on it before even getting started, but I've got myself into a bit of a mess here, and of course it's not all neat and tidy (darnit).

I have a new Macbook Pro, that I have not even turned on yet. Of course I'm dying to start using it, but I need to get a few things sorted out first, and so far Internet searching and forum searching have not answered my questions. The two separate-but-intertwined issues are that:

1) The new MBP is loaded with iLife 09 but I would rather have iPhoto 08. I'm not averse to the rest of iLife 09 but I don't know if I can mix and match versions.

2) There were some major problems with my last computer that I don't want to repeat on this one.

Both of these things need to be figured out before I start up the new MBP, and I can't figure out the answers myself. So here I type on my ancient iBook, meanwhile the new MBP is just sitting there all shiny and begging to be used!

So okay, the computers:

Player #1
I had an early 2008 Macbook, with iLife 08 and a Time Machine backup. It died an early death and all that is left is the TM backup. I was perfectly happy with it except for thinking I might buy Final Cut Express for movie work.

Player #2
I got a replacement unibody plastic Macbook, which the Apple store Genius loaded with the data from the dead computer, but it is kind of messed up because of things he did to try to get my names to match up. So I don't think I want to use that computer to migrate to the new MBP when I have the TM backup which is not affected. Also, the photos on this computer are converted to iPhoto 09 (whereas the ones on my backup drive are still iPhoto 08, plus there are no name problems). This computer is going to a friend of mine as soon as I get the MBP set up so that I feel comfortable wiping it clean (not that he's drumming his fingers... oh no ).

Player #3
Brand new shiny MBP, just waiting to be used! I was really missing the Firewire and external battery monitor Player #1 had, and I had always wanted a backlit keyboard. Because of the problems with Player #2's names set up, and because I have a friend who was JUST about to buy a refurbished white Macbook and is happy to buy mine, I decided to upgrade to an MBP. After the mini-fiasco with #2's names and short names, I don't want to mess this one up! Now we are getting to my real questions:

1) Can I keep using iLife 08? If so, do I need to buy a stand-alone version? (I have the discs from Player #1, and that computer has been destroyed, but I don't know if this would be un-workable or piracy). I see that I can buy a boxed set of 08, and that would not be a big deal if I need to do so. The MBP is pre-loaded with iLife 09, and I can also get Ilife 11 through the "up to date" program with Apple for a small price.

2) How do I get iLife 08 on the MBP before it asks me to make a name, etc.? I know the first name you make on a new Mac is important (as I found out....)

2) Do I have to use ALL of iLife 08 or can I "mix and match" between 08 and 09 (or even 11)?

Right now I have a Time Machine backup of my old (2008) Macbook, and everything on that is still in iLife 08. I would like to use Migration Assistant, but I know if I do that all my photos will be "upgraded" to the iPhoto 09 format as the MBP stands now. I'm not quite sure how to handle this with Migration Assistant since the minute I fire up the new MBP, I have to do *something*. I'm not completely incompetent, but I'm also not really an "under the hood" person when it comes to my computers (although I can follow instructions )

I have searched both here and on the web but have not found an answer to the "mix and match" question, or on how to get a computer back to an earlier version if that is necessary.

One more thing I just thought of The data on my TM backup is slightly "behind" that which was migrated to Player #2 (computer I'm selling to a friend). There is not a lot of importance that was created between those two dates, but there are a few things:

1) A dozen or so photos (luckily most of my recent photos are still on one of my camera cards, but a few weren't)
2) A handful of documents
3) E-mail in the form of Apple's Mail program (the most important to me).

For the time being, I am limping along on my "old faithful" G3 iBook (many idiosyncracies!), and hoping to never see a beachball again

Thank you for slogging all the way through this. I know it's kind of complicated and messy, but that's why I'm having a hard time figuring it out! I very much appreciate any help you can give me

Miss Terri

 

[Mal]

Sounds like the Genius really didn't follow the correct procedures on that one (I've done that exact process a number of times).

Anyways, now that you're in this situation, here's my couple of thoughts.

You can mix and match iLife apps without trouble generally, including running iPhoto '08 but the rest of iLife '09, shouldn't really give you any trouble. Not entirely sure why you'd want to, but it shouldn't be an issue. However, installing iPhoto '08 just from your Time Machine backup could be an issue, I'm not sure of a way to do that. If you have the disks from that first machine, it might be possible to install it from there, though, and while I'm not sure if it's within the official guidelines, I feel safe in saying there'd be no moral problem with doing so. You may have to use Pacifist to install it, just because of the locking of the disks to that one particular model.

As for transferring, you can use Migration Assistant without problems, then do the downgrade to iPhoto '08, as long as you don't launch iPhoto before you do so. The upgrade of the library to iPhoto '09 will not take place until you launch iPhoto for the first time on the new computer. If you mess something up, you can also go back and grab the library from your backup again anyways, until you overwrite that backup.

Hope that helps!

jW

 

[Miss Terri]

Hi Mal,

Aha, I did not appreciate the fact that my iPhoto library would not be converted to iPhoto 09 after an install until I actually started up iPhoto. Now that you say it, that makes sense because I guess programs usually do ask you to convert at the time you start them --- I hadn't thought of that.

If there's a question as to whether the discs from my old/dead machine would work, I might just buy a new copy of iLife 08. I see it is not very expensive, and although I'm not just out trying to spend needless money, I don't want any more complications/problems if I can help it.

The main reason I want iPhoto 08 --- or rather, why I don't want 09+, is that I don't use Faces, and there does not seem to be a way to turn it off (Googled and did not find anyone who had figured out a way). It "cycles" every time I load photos, and that just annoys me all to heck, since I don't even want to USE it.

I see that you can turn off Faces in Aperture, but since I have no real other need for Aperture, I don't really want to buy it. One other thing I like to do is to be able to put "circles and arrows" and notes on photos. If Aperture would do that easily, I would probably just upgrade; but it seems I would still be using an external editor for that, so that makes an upgrade less appealing. Especially when I am already looking at buying Final Cut Express (and I'm really just a basic user).

Yes, the Genius at Apple kind of messed up my white unibody Macbook. When I called the store kind of reeling in horror after getting the computer home, we were able to figure out what he had done wrong. And they did offer that I could come back and they would help me sort it out. But it's about an 8 hour round trip driving for me, so I would rather not do that. Plus, my trust level is a bit low! I had a few doubts when I was there before, but I felt uncomfortable challenging a Genius at the time

Since I was missing Firewire and the external battery monitor (amazing how often it turns out I use that thing for such a "small" feature), and with the enticement of a backlit keyboard (no more tilting screen down and craning my neck ); PLUS having a friend on the verge of buying a white Macbook, well, I just decided to start fresh with an MBP. I hope I like it! This will be my first "metal" Mac. In the old days I had heard they had poorer wi-fi reception, but from what I fould find by searching and asking people, they seem to be as good as the plastic ones now (please tell me now if that's wrong!).

If anyone else can chip in info, I would be most appreciative.

Thank you,
Terri

 

[Miss Terri]

I'm replying to my own posts, is this a bad sign?

I was just doing some reading here and I now realize there may also be a problem running iLife 08 on Snow Leopard. But I can't tell for sure, as the threads I read either seem ambiguous or peter out before a resolution is reached for sure.

Can anyone shed any light on this? It seems I may have to accept iLife 09 and live with the Faces cycling on iPhoto, but I know this is going to drive me nuts (and I'm perfectly willing to "re-purchase" iLife 08 if that will help me get around it) (I'm less keen on purchasing Aperture since it's a lot more expensive and still doesn't do the few things I regularly want to do with my photos).

Thanks for any help. I'm only checking the forum about once a minute while I wait to fire up my new MBP

Terri

 

[Mal]

Shouldn't be any problems running iLife '08 under Snow Leopard AFAIK. I've seen it working on other people's computers, though I've always preferred to keep up to date.

jW

 

[Miss Terri]

Well in theory I like to keep up to date too. But sometimes the new version of an application "giveth" something I don't want; or "taketh away" something I use a lot. An example is the Faces function in iPhoto 09. I don't use it, and yet there is no way to disable it. Each time I move photos from my camera card to iPhoto, it takes a bunch of extra time scanning for Faces, which I find annoying since I don't even want it.

Another example is the newer versions of iMovie. The way they work just doesn't mesh with my way of thinking, I guess, whereas an older version did. I don't expect Apple to halt progress or anything, I'm just hoping to figure out how to make my computer work best for me. I'm willing to pay for the older versions so they are legit.

Thanks for your input,
Terri

 

[Nermal]

Shouldn't be any problems running iLife '08 under Snow Leopard AFAIK. I've seen it working on other people's computers, though I've always preferred to keep up to date.

Yeah, shouldn't be any problems, I'm happily running iPhoto '06 under 10.6 without any noticeable issues.

 

[Miss Terri]

Thank you, Nermal

Okay, so... can you help me with the order in which I should do things?

My old Time Machine backup is from my early 2008 Macbook. So it's Leopard/iLife 08. The new MBP is Snow Leopard/iLife 09.

I understand that when I start up the new MBP, I will want to use Migration Assistant to move my data from the TM backup to the MBP, and that it will upgrade or do whatever it needs to do to put the old-style data on my MBP.

But.... do I THEN install iLife 08 from discs (which I have yet to purchase) right after that and before I open iPhoto (so my photos don't get converted to 09?). Do I have to somehow *remove* iPhoto 09 so that it does not get ignored and used anyway?

I have this feeling that if I do things in the wrong order they are not reversible

Oh, and then if I want to, can I "mix and match"? For example, run iPhoto 08 but with iMovie 09 or even 11? Etc.? Or if I want iPhoto 08 does that mean I should just stick with all of iLife 08?

Thank you,
Terri

PS: I'm curious why you are running iPhoto 06. Maybe for reasons along the same lines - liking features it has or not liking newer features?

 

[Nermal]

If it were me, since you haven't done anything with the new system yet, I'd reinstall (format) from the bundled DVD, do a custom install, and unselect iPhoto. I'd then install iPhoto '08 separately. Personally I've never used the Migration Assistant; I prefer to copy things manually as it really helps to get rid of all the stuff I don't actually need

You have your TM backup, so if something goes wrong you can always recover.

And I'm using '06 because I can't justify NZ$100 for an app that I don't use all that much.

 

[Miss Terri]

Thanks, Nermal, I think I'm following you.

Someone told me that a person could not mix and match within iLife, because (mysterious) bits were scattered in various dark corners and so things would get mixed up. For this reason I was willing to go back completely to iLife 08.

BUT, if I can do as you say, then great, because I don't think I have anything against any of the other parts of iLife 09 (on the other hand, if mix/match could cause problems, then I would want to stay away).

It's probably obvious , but I'm not very advanced when it comes to doing "custom" stuff. So I hope you will not get too exasperated if I ask you a couple of more questions.


1) So I turn the new MBP on and then..... ignore everything about the Welcome and making names and just put in the first of the two system discs? I take it then I will see the option for a custom install and choose everything but iPhoto 08 (assuming no mix/match problems are known)?

2) Then I will buy the discs of iLife 08 (since it sounds potentially complicated or not allowed to use the iPhoto 08 from my old, dead Macbook), and put that one in and do another custom install of iPhoto 08 only?

3) At what point am I creating my user name and short name on the new computer?

4) And.. I can see why you would not use Migration Assistant, but I'm not that experienced in doing these thing (see, because Macs just work; I have never learned this stuff ) and also I think I need MA to sort of whip all of my old Leopard data into shape for Snow Leopard. I don't think I have too much "extra" stuff on there, so I would not be weeding anything out that I know of.

You know, part of me thinks this is all just too scary and fraught with potential pitfalls, and so I'm tempted to just "give in" and go with iLife 09. But then I think about that Faces scanning EVERY TIME I download photos and.... that would drive me nuts.

Thanks again for your help.

Terri

 

[Tumbleweed666]

The main reason I want iPhoto 08 --- or rather, why I don't want 09+, is that I don't use Faces, and there does not seem to be a way to turn it off (Googled and did not find anyone who had figured out a way). It "cycles" every time I load photos, and that just annoys me all to heck, since I don't even want to USE it.

Terri, I use Faces, but my iPhoto doesn't "cycle" when I start it up (not quite sure what you mean by 'cycle", do you mean it beachballs for a while?) , I wonder if its trying to 'set up' faces and once you have added even one single face, it doesn't do that any more?

Certainly when I start iPhoto, its running in a few seconds and if I didn't ever go to the faces entry, I'd never know if it was there, or set up.

Each time I move photos from my camera card to iPhoto, it takes a bunch of extra time scanning for Faces, which I find annoying since I don't even want it.

How do you know its doing that? I don't recall when importing, any particular message indicating extra time being allocated for face recognition and imports are so fast even if time is allocated I don't notice it?

 

[Miss Terri]

Well, I may be guilty of some assumptions, since as you point out, I don't yet KNOW that's what's happening.

I haven't used the iPhoto 9 all that much yet (only had it for a very brief time on the replacement white unibody Macbook).

Thing is, I've been sorry a couple times in the past when I made updates right away without reading about them online, and so at that point I decided that in future, before "leaping," I would wait a bit and see what others had to say.

So, in fact, I waited to buy the MBP until just after the "Back to the Mac" since it was only a week or so past when I had been going to make the purchase. I thought they might update the MBP or something and I wanted to see. Of course they didn't (although I did get a little bit tempted by the MBA but then ruled it out since I'm not an "early adopter" and since this is my primary (only) machine).

But, I was all "Ooh, iLife 11!" And then I started reading about how my most used e-mailing photos feature was kind of crippled (for the way I use it) in iPhoto 11, plus I saw a few other things I don't crave (although being able to spread out iMovie 11 into a long timeline looks tempting!). So that's out for now. Okay, no problem, I was able to find a machine that still had iLife 09 pre-loaded. But that reminded me that I should kind of see what I was getting into with iLife 09 compared to my iLife 08, which really, I didn't have any complaints about (of course anything can be improved).

I had noticed the Faces feature of 09, and I knew I had zero interest in using it, and yet I couldn't figure out how to disable it. So I did some Internet searching. And found threads of people complaning about the cycling and basically begging Apple and the forums for ways to turn it off. Of which I never found even a hack.

And I noticed that it was taking longer to load my photos from my camera (actually, from my USB SD card reader, since I don't use my camera directly). From what I had read, I assumed that it was the Faces scanning, and then I (because I realized that the file/folder system was messed up and I didn't want any more new data added to that computer) actually stopped using that computer and went back to my iBook for now (yes, it's quaint , but hey, it still works with a few little compensations here and there - can't wait to start using the MBP though!)

So really, I can't tell how much the Faces complaints in iPhoto 09 are just happening to some people, who are the ones writing in to the forums (although there sure are a lot of them), and how much it's just that of course you see the complaints but not the happy users.

On the other hand, I don't see anything in iPhoto 09 that is compelling me to want it, and I know I have zero chance of having a problem with Faces in iPhoto 08. Also, I know that photos get "converted" up to 09 format, so it's not like I can easily go back once I have switched and started adding lots of photos.

Even though mixing and matching iLife versions is obviously a pain now, as I'm trying to figure out how to do it, I figure it's something I only have to learn once, and that I will only have to do something about once in awhile, whereas I'll be using the programs every day. So it should be worth it. And I can always upgrade. It seems a bit harder to go back.

(As a side bonus, in my reading I found out that it's possible to run iMovie HD (06) still, so... happy day!) (Although I see iMovie 11 can have a long timeline again, so maybe I would like that. Yes, maybe more mixing and matching )

Thank you for replying

Terri

PS: I should add that I also consider(ed) purchasing Aperture 3. I saw that it allowed one to disable Faces. But then I could not figure out if or how one can easily e-mail photos from it (yes, I do that a lot) even after lots of searching. I also checked into if or how one could write on a photo (annotate right on the photo) as that is something else I wish iPhoto did. But it doesn't seem like you can do that either (I found lots of people asking but every time it was an unanswered question). So I think I would still end up using an external editor for that. Which is okay, but if I'm going to shell out for Aperture, I would like it to fairly easily do those two things, since I do them a lot. (If anyone knows, I'm all ears.)

 

[Tumbleweed666]

Miss T, Have you looked at alternative photo organisers that perhaps aren't as expensive as Aperture?
Examples that spring to mind include Photoshop Elements 9 (just out with integrated organiser, I use PSE8 that doesn't have that) and Picasa (free).

PSE is obviously a much better editor than iPhoto,and I dont know as I dont use it but as I recall Picasa is comparable to iPhoto.

Having said all that, I've never had any issues with faces in iPhoto (as I say you wouldn't even know it was there unless you used it) and I would guess that if you go searching on the net for people who have a problem with anything, you'd find a bunch. But I have to say that in this forum I don't recall seeing a lot of problems (if any) with faces slowing things down.

But, if you don't have a problem with 08 I see no harm in continuing with it, I suppose at some point you can expect to see no more bug fixes, at that point you can upgrade if need be.

FWIW if I was starting from scratch now, I'd be very tempted to go with PSE9 instead of iPhoto, and while I've only had a quick skim of the new release, all I see is things I don't care about such as facebook integration, and not what I'd consider 'core' in a photo editor, which is, err better photo editing