Can I use a Mac mini and Synology NAS with my ATV4Ks?

[laserfan]

I have been using MakeMKV to convert my HD-DVD and Blu-ray movie collection for storing on my Synology NAS, and at the same time have begun to purchase movies from the Apple Store, where eventually I would like to Download copies of those and keep them on my NAS. For playback I bought the lifetime Infuse player. Obviously the ATV4K will stream movies from my Apple account online. But to play the movies I have on the Synology I would have to have a Mac (a headless mini I think is what I want) running iTunes all the time, with its library on the NAS, is that right?

Can someone confirm--can I download HD copies of my Apple-purchased movies to my NAS, and then, together with my converted Blu-rays play everything on the Apple TV? I'd like to be able to do that because my ISP is not completely trustworthy.

 

[mpainesyd]

I use a Mac running Mojave/iTunes to steam to ATV's Computers app. The videos (including iTunes purchases) are stored on an external hard drive attached to the Mac. It is easy to add new videos to the iTunes library (make sure that in iTunes Advanced Settings the "Copy to iTunes Media Folder..." is unchecked). For non-iTunes videos you will need to change the Video Info setting for each newly added video because they default as "Home Videos" - change them to "Movies" or "TV Shows".
I would expect that storing your video files on a NAS would work in the same way.

 

[Boyd01]

Have been using a Mini to do this for about 7 years now and it works very well. It just runs iTunes 24/7 with about 700 movies, 600 TV shows and thousands of songs on a 4tb USB 3.0 SSD. But I have iTunes set to put everything in the media folder which is configured as the external SSD. iTunes creates a folder named "automatically add to iTunes" where I drop new videos and let iTunes do all the organizing.

I have a screen attached to the Mini and it's connected to my home stereo so I can also use it to directly watch videos as well as Sling with Safari. If you are going "headless", see this thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...headless.2231131/?post=28370303#post-28370303

Just one possible issue if you're using a NAS. Make sure that iTunes never starts up when it's not unavailable. I tried this sort of setup initially, and when the network drive wasn't available once, it corrupted my whole iTunes library. Unfortunately, iTunes is not very robust when it comes to network disks. I believe you can prevent this from happening by putting the iTunes Library Database on the NAS. The default location for the the database is on the Mac's startup disk, but it can be moved. It is in the file name iTunes Library.itl, there are also some other files like iTunes Library.xml, etc. Not sure if you need to move those to the NAS also, but I have them all on my own external disk. The idea is that, if the Mini starts and can't find your media then it just gives you an error message instead of corrupting the library file.

To add metadata to your ripped movies, have a look at the free Subler app. Not the most user-friendly program but it works very well and usually saves you the step of doing a manual "get info".

 

[laserfan]

This is so great, thanks guys. I've felt for a long time that what I want to do may be possible, but all of the "tutorials" and "how-tos" on the Internet are so old and have such conflicting (or incomplete) information that I've needed someone to say "yes it is possible".

Ok well you guys use ext HDDs and not NAS, but I understand there's a new level of complexity and appreciate Boyd01 your cautions in that respect.

Many thanks. BTW I have looked at "headless" thread(s) (maybe the one you linked) and it seems I want the "GS" Game version of the HDMI thingie to assure the best framerates.

 

[Boyd01]

It should go without saying, but the other important thing is to have good backups! I assume you already do this for your NAS, but you should also have it for the server. I have a pair of external backup hard drives that I rotate on my server. Late every night, Carbon Copy clones my media drive. This really saved me when my first media disk died several years ago. Just switched to the backup disk and was up and running in a couple minutes. My media disk started acting weird a couple months ago, so I go proactive and replaced it then before it failed. But this time I got a 4tb SSD instead of a hard disk, hopefully this will last longer and of course it's also about 3x faster than the old hard drive.

In addition to the Carbon Copy clones, I also have BackBlaze which does constant backups to the cloud.

Good luck, let us know how it works out for you!

 

[laserfan]

I'm one of those who have backups-of-my-backups and ultimately in my case re: the movies there are shiny disks I will keep, and of course iTunes movies are in the cloud...hopefully someday Apple will allow dl of 4K movies.

One of y'all needs to do a tutorial about this. Nah, heck I have to get the Mac and build it from scratch and then I know how I got to the solution. I'll figure it out--I needed to know others have done it and I appreciate that.

p.s. I ain't laserfan for nothing but after having owned thousands of laserdiscs (and given them away) and next hundreds of DVDs (and been forced by PQ to upgrade them) and then hundreds of HD-DVDs (which went belly-up) and then BD and then 4K BD I have grown very weary of the shiny discs!

 

[Boyd01]

in my case re: the movies there are shiny disks I will keep, and of course iTunes movies are in the cloud

Careful with that! Be sure to keep local copies of all your iTunes purchases. There are several threads here (which are rather contentious, so I won't post links) where Apple has removed items from iTunes because they no longer have an agreement with the producer. If you don't have a local copy, then you are just out of luck in that case.

I have a big floor-to-ceiling bookcase full of shiny disks gathering dust also. Took me a couple years, but I finally ripped them all. Should really box them up and relegate them to the attic now.

 

[priitv8]

I've never run into library corruption with iTunes starting without mounted NAS volume.
But I have occasionally lost cover art.
In worst-case scenario you just delete all media from library and add it back, thus letting iTunes reindex your media folder (precondition - you've let iTunes organize your media folder). You will lose play counts, though. But not the playlists, if all media content maintains their names and locations. Which is the case if you let iTunes organize it.
To avoid such situations, I created an Automator script to mount NAS and launch iTunes in sequence.
You can download it from this post, open it in Automator app and adjust the connect string to your network share to iTunes Media Folder as shown on the picture.
You can then add this app to your startup items so that it gets launched on every login.
But I got tired of that NAS fairly soon, as Mac Mini is capable of all the functions of a NAS and then some. Plus it is much more powerful to handle those tasks. So I also switched to USB-connected disk array (aka DAS).

 

[HDFan]

I have been using MakeMKV to convert my HD-DVD and Blu-ray movie collection for storing on my Synology NAS, and at the same time have begun to purchase movies from the Apple Store, where eventually I would like to Download copies of those and keep them on my NAS. For playback I bought the lifetime Infuse player.

You .mkv files don't go into iTunes, right? If so then iTunes won't play your .mkvs, and Infuse won't play your iTunes downloaded videos. They can only be played via iTunes or Quicktime. [I got an error message to that effect when I tried to play a downloaded movie via another player. Correct me if I am wrong.]

I frankly don't want to deal with all of the complexities of iTunes, particularly when running from a NAS. Apple changes things so what works today might not work tomorrow. My solution to just use the native Movies app on the Apple TV for iTunes content.

For .mkvs I run a Plex server on my NAS and the playback is on my AppleTV via infuse or Plex. My NAS library maintenance is done via the Plex desktop client since it has so many more options than Infuse. Much easier to change movie covers, rate movies, create playlists. etc. For playback I use inFuse maybe 50% of the time and Plex maybe 50%.

You could convert your .mkvs to mp4's and then you could play everything in iTunes. But you lose quality in the conversion.

 

[laserfan]

HDFan, thanks. I tried Plex very briefly and the hill appeared too steep so I decided instead Infuse. With Infuse app on my ATV4K I expect I can play all my .mkvs? And then for Apple content that I've downloaded I would use, what, the TV app I think on the ATV4K? Or as you say Movies? This stuff makes my head spin!

I'm OK with having to go to Infuse for my mkvs and another app for my Apple-downloaded or cloud content so I should be good-to-go?

As for iTunes complexities I hear ya, which is where I started in Post #1 (WILL THIS EVEN WORK?!?!?). I'm invested now in my Synology DS1019+ and Qty 5 x 8TB HGST drives so...well here I am and committed.

Another one you guys: I'm wanting a Mac (mini probably) to manage "iTunes" because I've never quite trusted that Apple had the Windows platform figured-out. Ran iTunes on W7Pro for a long time, with a small music library and mostly used it for backups but now I've deleted it entirely from the PC. Does anyone here think running iTunes on a Windows 7 or 10 PC is "just as good and reliable" as running on a Mac? My wife has a MacBook and we have iGizmos galore so I'm inclined in the "new Mac" direction, but OTOH I have beaucoup Windows boxes including an i7 that's unused, and a NUC, heck even a W10 Intel Compute Stick that could conceivably be dedicated to iTunes also... Whaddyas think?

 

[Boyd01]

And then for Apple content that I've downloaded I would use, what, the TV app I think on the ATV4K? Or as you say Movies? This stuff makes my head spin!

IMO, you should download all your Apple content, for the reason I stated earlier. You can then access it with the Computers app, although I think those other apps also work. Personally, I have a number of TV and movie playlists on my server. AFAIK, you need to use the Computers app to access those. I like playlists since I can arrange them in the order I want (for example: 1950's Sci Fi Films, in chronological order). And it also lets them play continuously, which I especially like for TV series.

BTW, this is one thing I hate about the TV app on my iOS devices. They cannot access my playlsits, not to mention that they insist on listing all 700 movies on the server in alphabetic order. 😡

Have never used iTunes on Windows, but has seen plenty of complaints (also have seen lots of complaints about the Mac version, LOL). But I don't think you would need a "new" Mini for this, I'm using a 2014 2.8ghz dual core i5 with 8gb RAM and internal SSD boot drive. In your case, I suspect the bottleneck will be the ethernet connection to your NAS, which would max out at 120MB/sec. I get over 400MB/sec with my USB 4tb media SSD.

 

[laserfan]

Thanks Boyd01, much appreciated. Wouldn't it be nice if the movies I bought from the Apple Store could be directly accessed by my ATV4K on my NAS without having to have an iTunes computer on the network? When I write this out it makes my head hurt--how could Apple deny this functionality?

About playlists, Apple should be leading this parade--so I don't get that either. Apple's ATV boxes should not only have superior playlist capabilities, it should even include playlists of scenes. I understand Kaleidescape can do this, and it is something I would pay big bucks for (though not Kscape bucks). We should be able to say "play some faves for my guests to show-off the system" including the helicopter attack scene from Apocalypse Now and the opening scene from (pick a Bond film) and then jump to a song or three from Concert for George and then the rooftop dance from West Side Story, OK well you get the idea.

 

[Boyd01]

Thanks Boyd01, much appreciated. Wouldn't it be nice if the movies I bought from the Apple Store could be directly accessed by my ATV4K on my NAS without having to have an iTunes computer on the network?

Well, IMO Apple is not to blame for that. It's called "Digital Rights Management", and the owners of the movies insist on it. If not, it's not unreasonable to expect that Apple would make movies like music, which is now DRM-free.

 

[laserfan]

I don't understand why DRM should force the necessity of having a computer between the ATV and Apple movies?

Maybe you're saying that a computer running iTunes and having downloaded a video to its library which (in my case anyway) will happen to be on a NAS makes it all DRM-AOK. Guess I can't understand why can't they give the ATV the ability to download a legally purchased video and likewise have it on a NAS that is linked i.e. known by the ATV.

 

[Boyd01]

When Apple sells you a movie, you are only allowed to view it on an authorized Apple device with Apple's own software. Therefore, it won't work in a third-party app like Plex. If you want to view your own movies (which you either filmed yourself or ripped from DVD) then you can use any software you like.

The Apple TV is just a "terminal". It can access protected media directly on Apple servers, or from your own home server (a Mac running iTunes). But it can't directly open a file on a storage device.

 

[HDFan]

HDFan, thanks. I tried Plex very briefly and the hill appeared too steep so I decided instead Infuse. With Infuse app on my ATV4K I expect I can play all my .mkvs?

Yes.

And then for Apple content that I've downloaded I would use, what, the TV app I think on the ATV4K? Or as you say Movies? This stuff makes my head spin!

You don't download movies to the ATV. There isn't enough storage. Everything is streamed, either from Apple's Movie Servers or your own devices.

QUOTE="laserfan, post: 28395741, member: 717016"]I'm OK with having to go to Infuse for my mkvs and another app for my Apple-downloaded or cloud content so I should be good-to-go?
[/QUOTE]

Yep! Your iTunes movies can be viewed either via the Movies app or Home Sharing ("Computers") app.

Note that making purchases in iTunes may not be the best way to go. There are a number of sites that sell movie codes which can be less expensive. They can be redeemed on iTunes, Vudu, MoviesAnywhere, etc. I redeem all of my digital movies on MoviesAnywhere. That way they can be streamed vi iTunes, Amazon, Youtube, Vudu, etc. There are limitations though. 4K content which is 4K on Vudu can end up 1080p on iTunes.

 

[laserfan]

Again, I appreciate the patience you are showing to me. I am appalled by how complicated it all is and amazed that "normal people" can get anything to work. I consider myself to be "smarter than the average bear" and yet it's been a struggle for me.

@Boyd01 ok I get that the ATV is just a terminal but still must ding Apple for not giving it a capacity to work with a NAS because...well because I have a NAS! It does seems my Synology can run something re: iTunes though I guess it is strictly that--tunes/music not movies.

Yeah @HDFan ATV doesn't have a downloading feature, though other gizmos like iPad and iPhone do so I say to Apple "why not" e.g. my ATV has room for a few movies but then...let's let it tt a network storage device (someday, with whatever software it needs for Apple to be happy with it).

I have some Disk-to-Digital Vudus and some movie codes from discs I bought and thus Movies Anywhere, but when I found that Apple was giving free 4K upgrades to HD movie purchases I thought "future-proofing sounds good to me" so I've been buying exclusively Apple, and only when a HD or 4K movie has dropped to $4.99 or less. CheapCharts helps alert me to these deals. It doesn't get cheaper than that does it?

 

[Boyd01]

I also like purchasing movies from iTunes, the convenience factor is worth something in itself. However, I only have SD and HD movies, not interested in 4k at this time. If you are buying Apple 4k movies, just be aware that there's some risk they will disappear in the future. I always download all my purchases and keep them on my server. But you can't download 4k movies from Apple, they are stream-only (AFAIK).

And if Apple terminates an agreement with a studio, the 4k movies will just be gone, apparently leaving you with no recourse. There's at least one very contentious thread here on that topic, not going to post a link. Forbes Magazine did an article about this back in 2018 and cited a number of "disappearing iTunes movie purchases" reported by different people.

 

[laserfan]

Yeah, I've seen discussions about "disappearing movies" but they've always turned-out to be temporary it seems, a glitch of some sort. Also I do stick to my $4.99 max even if it's a 4K movie. Finally if Apple should kill 4K for any reason i.e. by studio force, then yes as previously discussed I will be keen to have HD copies of all on my NAS. You are right BTW about "no downloading of 4K" and while I imagine that might change to a Yes in the future, for now you can always download the HD version of a 4K movie.

Ya know, I have a 4K Sony projector and a 10-foot 'scope screen, and am astonished at the PQ of it. It is truly hard, at least for me, to discern any major improvements w/a 4K movie versus an upscaled 1080p. So I get 4K where I can but for the way I watch movies (which is to say "not very critically") 1080p are just fine. I *have* been upgrading my DVDs though--many of those have been rendered unwatchable by HD.

 

[satcomer]

If you are running the latest Snology software then look at the video to do free:

 

[surfnode]

If you want to play your iTunes movie in Infuse, you will need to use TunesKit4Mac (only works up to MacOS Sierra) or you can use TunesKit4Windows - I have use a VM on my Mac so I can convert mine for Offline use. Just bear in mind it'll only do files upto 1080p - iTunes wont download the 4k versions.

 

[laserfan]

If you want to play your iTunes movie in Infuse, you will need to use TunesKit4Mac (only works up to MacOS Sierra) or you can use TunesKit4Windows - I have use a VM on my Mac so I can convert mine for Offline use. Just bear in mind it'll only do files upto 1080p - iTunes wont download the 4k versions.

Thx surfnode I understand that I need Infuse to play my MKVs, but why would I use Infuse for the Apple movies...hmmm maybe for convenience as they'd then all be in under the same GUI umbrella?

🤔

 

[laserfan]

Can I ask another of you guys please--if all I am going to do with a new Mac is to have it run iTunes 24/7, is a headless Mini with SSD the box-to-buy? Or given the doesn't actually work all that hard, then any Mac would do e.g. a MacBook 12 or some such, or even an iMac?

I like what Boyd01 already said. Any other opinions?

I don't think you would need a "new" Mini for this, I'm using a 2014 2.8ghz dual core i5 with 8gb RAM and internal SSD boot drive.

 

[Boyd01]

For my own needs, a 2014 mini is more than good enough. I was using the lowly base model 1.4ghz/4gb 2014 Mini for this with the painfully slow 5400RPM hard drive for about three years and it worked great (my library was on a 4tb external USB 3.0 hard disk). I only upgraded to the faster, SSD-based Mini because B&H Photo was blowing them out for $500 and it seemed like a good investment that would last many more years.

However, quite a lot of my library was ripped from 480p DVD's. I have a collection of BluRay disks but don't have a drive to rip them, and it sounds like a big pain anyway. So, most of my 1080p content was purchased from iTunes, downloaded from archive.org or YouTube, plus some original video that I shot myself on Sony XDCAM. If you have 4k video, or if you're using another app as a server, then I don't know whether a faster computer would help.

But again, I think your big bottleneck will be gigabit ethernet (assuming that's your LAN). If you already have an old Mac, perhaps try setting up a small library on it to see how you like the speed?

 

[laserfan]

Thx Boyd01. Maybe I should clarify: my vision for this setup is that with a Mac having the Store and iTunes and its Library on my Synology NAS, I want to download HD copies of my Apple Store purchases, and unless the movie is 4K I would likely use not the cloud but instead the Synology. It seems I read somewhere that if I now tell my ATV4K that I want to watch This Movie, apart from touching base with my Mac that I own it, from there the ATV4K does actually get The Movie directly from the NAS (or the cloud if I wanna watch a 4K I own). Is that right, and if so there shouldn't really be any speed issues to be concerned with for the Mac, as all it does is basic traffic cop stuff?

I had raised the question of "what Mac" thinking "is a Mini durable enough to run 24/7" but that's probably wrong thinking as the thing should be asleep except for the few times my ATV4K accesses it to verify I can watch The Movie Of The Night...?

As an aside, I have lotsa "ripping drives" including for 4K blu-rays, and have already ripped 100+ HD-DVDs using MakeMKV, so doing another 100+ BDs is no big deal. And I am trying to upgrade all my DVDs to HD, so if it turns-out I have a few that are unique or special well I suppose I might rip those too.