Carplay - 2015 - vaporware

[jmpage2]

I know, I know, it's not really vaporware since a tiny number of vehicles have started shipping with Carplay, but it really really feels like that since other than ONE model of Ferrari not a single other car is shipping from the factory with Carplay support... and retrofit to higher end cars is extremely difficult and expensive.

I can't figure out what the hold up is in adoption of Carplay by industry partners like Mercedes who announced really strong support in 2014 and still have not shipped a single product with Carplay enabled.... kinda makes me wonder if rumors of an Apple Car have put the kibosh on this whole thing as automakers might be feeling threatened.

This is exactly the kind of thing that has put me off buying a new car, the technology in cars is incredibly outdated, many cars have very difficult/expensive to replace factory systems and it seems inevitable that Carplay and Android Auto will soon become the way that we use our phones in the car for maximum effect.

Full disclosure. I currently lease a BMW 328xi and that lease will be ending in August. I will be able to get a better deal on a model year 2015 car but am holding out a sliver of hope that 2016 model year cars will get at least the hardware needed for Carplay by way of a firmware update.

I'm a bit bitter too since my 2013 model year car missed a real substantial update to the iDrive system by a matter of six months. Mine was an earlier production model and several months later BMW simply upgraded the Navi/iDrive version included with the car to one that is much more capable.

I have really vowed to try to avoid letting that happen again.

Right now I'm debating lease of another BMW 3 series or the new Mercedes C300 (boo hoo, tough life I know).... and honestly, inclusion of Carplay support would easily tip me over from one to the other since both are quite good vehicles. I would even go as far as going with something less fun to drive (Volkswagen, Volvo, ?) if it had this feature.

Anyone want to commiserate? It would be super awesome if someone at BMW or Mercedes headquarters who is reading this wants to post some useful (and of course anonymized) information.

 

[2298754]

It's not Apple. It is the car makers that are screwing around by not giving it to us. I think Hyundai will be the first in the US market. The new Sonata already supports it. Just waiting for a software update.

I've held off buying a new car for this exact reason. I want CarPlay.

 

[turtle777]

People don't understand that development cycles for cars are much slower than for cell phones / computers.

Typical lead time for changes are 2-3 years from beginning of development to SOP (start of production).

-t

 

[jmpage2]

People don't understand that development cycles for cars are much slower than for cell phones / computers.

Typical lead time for changes are 2-3 years from beginning of development to SOP (start of production).

-t

Well we are there then. I have read articles that Apple was showing the early CarPlay tech to auto makers in early 2012.

 

[AustinIllini]

Well we are there then. I have read articles that Apple was showing the early CarPlay tech to auto makers in early 2012.

CarPlay was introduced in 2014, so you have a ways to go.

The radios will likely be CarPlay/Android Auto combo radios which can switch based on the phone plugged in.

Phil Nickinson had one of the pioneer models installed in his Civic. Too bad Pioneer's interface is bad.

 

[jmpage2]

CarPlay was introduced in 2014, so you have a ways to go.

The radios will likely be CarPlay/Android Auto combo radios which can switch based on the phone plugged in.

Phil Nickinson had one of the pioneer models installed in his Civic. Too bad Pioneer's interface is bad.

Umm.. Wrong! iOS in the car was introduced at WWDC in 2013 and that product became CarPlay!!

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CarPlay

Working in a related industry it is highly likely that strategic partners would have been shown the product before it was shown to the public at WWDC.

 

[AustinIllini]

Umm.. Wrong! iOS in the car was introduced at WWDC in 2013 and that product became CarPlay!!

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CarPlay

Working in a related industry it is highly likely that strategic partners would have been shown the product before it was shown to the public at WWDC.

Launched to the public 2014. That's your start date. In fact, it wasn't even called CarPlay until 2014.

 

[jmpage2]

Launched to the public 2014. That's your start date. In fact, it wasn't even called CarPlay until 2014.

So you are arguing automakers need three years from the time it is launched to the public when Apple is doing the heavy lifting?

Again, automakers would have been given tech demos, sdk info, etc, before the concepts were shown to the public.

None of this explains why pioneer has been shipping product for almost a year and no automaker can get their act together.

 

[AustinIllini]

So you are arguing automakers need three years from the time it is launched to the public when Apple is doing the heavy lifting?

Again, automakers would have been given tech demos, sdk info, etc, before the concepts were shown to the public.

None of this explains why pioneer has been shipping product for almost a year and no automaker can get their act together.

Pioneer's implementation is horrible.

 

[2298754]

People don't understand that development cycles for cars are much slower than for cell phones / computers.

Typical lead time for changes are 2-3 years from beginning of development to SOP (start of production).

-t

I'm well aware of the long-R&D times for the auto-makers, but that needs to change ASAP. With Google/Apple doing all the behind-the-scenes work, all the OEMs need to do is provide a screen basically. If they can't do it quickly, then something is wrong here.

 

[jmpage2]

I'm well aware of the long-R&D times for the auto-makers, but that needs to change ASAP. With Google/Apple doing all the behind-the-scenes work, all the OEMs need to do is provide a screen basically. If they can't do it quickly, then something is wrong here.

Well in fairness it does take more than that. The infotainment system is integrated into the entire vehicle and in many newer cars is the only way to control some vehicle functions.

The biggest concern an automaker would have is CarPlay causing instability in the rest of their system... Or making them look bad when it crashes.

 

[2298754]

Well in fairness it does take more than that. The infotainment system is integrated into the entire vehicle and in many newer cars is the only way to control some vehicle functions.

The biggest concern an automaker would have is CarPlay causing instability in the rest of their system... Or making them look bad when it crashes.

You bring up some valid points, no doubt. But CarPlay/Android Auto aren't running as the base OS for the system. CarPlay and Android Auto are basically another "app" that runs on top of whatever system the OEMs already have.

For Audi, MMI is still in the background, but they added support for both systems on top of it. Honestly, it can't take that long.

 

[jmpage2]

You bring up some valid points, no doubt. But CarPlay/Android Auto aren't running as the base OS for the system. CarPlay and Android Auto are basically another "app" that runs on top of whatever system the OEMs already have.

For Audi, MMI is still in the background, but they added support for both systems on top of it. Honestly, it can't take that long.

Supposedly when someone in Germany called to complain about lack of CarPlay on their 2015 C Class that was originally supposed to have it, and escalated to engineering they were told that Mercedes won't release the feature until Apple has it working properly.

 

[turtle777]

I'm well aware of the long-R&D times for the auto-makers, but that needs to change ASAP. With Google/Apple doing all the behind-the-scenes work, all the OEMs need to do is provide a screen basically. If they can't do it quickly, then something is wrong here.

Oh, you say it needs to change ?
I'm sure the OEMs will get right on it, LOL.

CarPlay is only one of many technical features of the so-called Integrated Center Stacks (ICS). There are many more aspects that take time, regardless of what SOFTWARE (e.g. CarPlay) is put on it. And there will never be only CarPlay, so whatever else is there (Android etc...) needs extra time.

-t

 

[nebo1ss]

I find it difficult to understand why anyone buying or leasing a car for 50K to 60K would let their decision be influenced by a 1K device. All i need my car to be capable of is to easily select and play music from my iphone and be able to handle a hands free bluetooth voice call.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Technology in cars tends to become dated very quickly.

I don't think the Apple Car has anything to do with it. That's at a bare minimum 10+ years away, if it even comes to fruition... or should I say fruit-ition.

Like others have said, development of cars takes a while.

Honestly I don't think it's that thrilling of a product. A lot of the new luxury cars already have google maps powered navigation. Even my 6 year old, 2009 BMW E60 has decent navigation and real time traffic updates, BlueTooth, and iPod integration. I really don't feel like I am missing anything except SMS text integration, which the new BMW's have. Pressing the home button on my iPhone to get Siri isn't difficult either. As for remote function which I imagine we'll see, they already exist as many cars already have specific apps.

 

[jmpage2]

Only Audi that I know of has google maps. Neither BMW or Mercedes do. BMW just switched off of crappyXM satellite based traffic updates on their nav one generation ago. Astonishingly Mercedes is still using XM traffic in the 2015 models.

Neither the BMW or Mercedes are truly integrated for SMS. They will let you read the first few lines of a new SMS on the vehicle console, but there is no way to respond.

BMW finally has album art and music navigation over Bluetooth but Mercedes doesn't only showing current playing track info like cars have had now for 5 or so years.

Bottom line is that a first generation iPhone makes the systems in these cars look like toys.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Does anyone know if any of the car manufactures are specifically choosing Apple over Google? Like what we saw with XM and Sirius before they merged?

What I am getting at here is choosing an exclusive partner might lead to some issues. If someone has an Android phone, and only CarPlay is offered, then that might turn a buyer away. With Sat Radio, it probably didn't make a difference but Phones are different. Also, different regions have different popular OS'es. iOS and Android are tied in US overall, but in New England iOS far outweighs Android. Europe generally favors Android but I remember reading Germany has a very low percentage of iPhone users.

Anyways, if exclusivity comes into play it might lead to issues with Apple CarPlay vs. whatever Google is rolling out. I think that's why some companies (Honda, Land Rover) are developing their own systems that work with both. I could be wrong though...

 

[jmpage2]

39 of the forty automakers supporting CarPlay are supporting android auto.

 

[malman89]

I mean if it didn't launch in the summer of 2014, it clearly wasn't going to launch until the summer 2015. New models don't come out until the second half of the year. I know it's supposed to hit at least a few new automakers either this year or next.

 

[A.Goldberg]

39 of the forty automakers supporting CarPlay are supporting android auto.

Good to know.

Support vs. actually offer may be another thing. We shall see.

 

[AustinIllini]

I mean if it didn't launch in the summer of 2014, it clearly wasn't going to launch until the summer 2015. New models don't come out until the second half of the year. I know it's supposed to hit at least a few new automakers either this year or next.

I think some people here are also underestimating the difficulty of switching to a new media center. I can only guess, but I don't think it's just "load up Carplay and go".

 

[thejadedmonkey]

You bring up some valid points, no doubt. But CarPlay/Android Auto aren't running as the base OS for the system. CarPlay and Android Auto are basically another "app" that runs on top of whatever system the OEMs already have.

For Audi, MMI is still in the background, but they added support for both systems on top of it. Honestly, it can't take that long.

But what happens when your screen with CarPlay crashes, and stops responding. And that same screen also happens to be the screen that controls the defrost. Given Apple's recent software releases, that's a real and valid concern to have.

I have Ford Sync in my car, and I did some research because it seems pretty craptacular. There's (if you trust some internet stranger) 3 different CPUs that all work in tandem. They control different functions independently, and there's one system whose sole purpose is to make sure that if anything happens, it doesn't take down the rest of the car.

Part of this inefficient configuration is because Ford isn't a technology company and their bidding process was terribad - components stacked on components over years without a technical cleanup. But another part is because of the sheer number of regulations that go into an infotainment system.

Assuming that the laws haven't changed in the past 5 years, Apple probably has to deal with interfacing their system with a proprietary car system. Each car system is different, and since Apple wants to be in total control of the software, they have to write CarPlay software that has a unique interface for each auto manufacturer. And test each unique system.

I'll speculate even more;

Apple likes to use off-the-shelf components that they can borrow from other projects. If they have to network their software with another bit of software, they'll need a network stack for CarPlay. Have you looked at the mess that is their networking stack? They recently re-wrote their DNS resolver, resulting in crap like this. Of course if they have this in CarPlay, this means that when they update it, they have to re-QA their software... which means collaboration with any regulatory bodies as well as the auto manufacturers. Note the state of Apple's SQA department.

_________________________________________________

Long story short, this post is 100% conjecture on my part, but I have a feeling that CarPlay's non-release is because Apple likes to do things their own way, and aren't used to working with partners on such highly regulated software.

 

[lowendlinux]

Carplay an google auto would be reasons for me not to buy a car.

 

[iLog.Genius]

I could see CarPlay effective/useful if the car didn't have a well designed infotainment system (Ford), but for systems like MMI and especially iDrive where iPhone integration is pretty damn good, I'd much rather use the native system than have an iOS-like overlay.