I have a 2021 Apple TV 4K, a Marantz SR-6013 receiver and a Sony 65A9G tv. Both the receiver and the tv are CEC-enabled, and both have CEC turned on. I also have a TiVo box from my local cable provider. I have been using a Harmony remote to turn on the TiVo box, the receiver and the tv with one press of a button on the Harmony remote. I am now experimenting with You Tube TV. I want to use my 2021 Siri remote to turn on the Apple TV, the receiver and the Sony tv with one button press—the on button on the Siri remote. I have read numerous articles that say this is possible. However, when I press the on button on the Siri remote only the Apple TV and the receiver turn on. I would appreciate any help in getting my system to function as it should. Thanks.
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CEC Connection Problem
- Thread starter MARobinson
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HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
First off, CEC is fraught with "make it just work" frustration. It's a loose standard implemented by many competing companies, all with their own agendas. So making it do what you want is rarely as easy as expected. My advice is always the same: cut the dependency on it out of the equation and instead use macro programming on learn remotes so that you can push one button and make a sequence of things happen. In other words, you shift CEC-like goals to macros. When you get the macros right, it will work exactly as you want. Your Harmony remote may support macros already.
However, many want to keep trying to get CEC working anyway so let's try with your setup. Test variables one at a time until you find a possible solution. For example, if you think about the TIVO and AppleTV as "the same" (first link in the CEC chain) for these purposes, one is doing what you want and the other is not. So the first thing I would do, is unhook the HDMI cable from the TIVO, hook that same cable into AppleTV and then turn on AppleTV. If receiver and TV come on as it does now with Tivo in that slot, you'll likely pin this problem down to perhaps the (former) HDMI cable between AppleTV and receiver OR perhaps the input on the receiver for AppleTV.
If the AppleTV (in place of TIVO) turns on the receiver but not the TV. I would re-check my settings in AppleTV... and recheck my cabling between receiver and TV (even testing a different HDMI cable from receiver to TV: first, does TIVO "on" still work, then does "AppleTV" now work?)
How about that cabling? Are you going from smart box (TIVO and AppleTV) into Receiver and from Receiver to TV? Or do you have TIVO and AppleTV hooked to TV and then TV to Receiver? Given the problem, I'm guessing the former.
The proper "flow" would be smart boxes (TIVO and AppleTV) HDMI into Marantz, then single cable from Marantz out to TV (if you have more than one "out" (to TV) jack, look for one marked ARC.
That Marantz has HDMI jacks as 1 cable/sat 2 DVD 3 blu ray, etc. I wonder if perhaps that DVD connection might be limited to DVD quality and AppleTV is trying to deliver well above that quality. Another experiment would be to try using HDMI 3 "blu ray" instead of HDMI 2 "DVD" from AppleTV. This is unlikely but easy enough to test too.
If you have receiver in the middle (Tivo and Apple TV at one end, Marantz in the middle, TV at other end), try swapping HDMI cables from TIVO to Marantz and AppleTV to Marantz.
If you happen to have ANOTHER AppleTV in the house, mix it into the test. For example, does one AppleTV do what you want but the other doesn't? If so, compare settings until you find what is not set up properly on the one not doing what you want it to do. If you don't have an extra AppleTV, maybe a friend does? Ask them to bring it over or loan it to you for some setup tests. If one "just works" the other should too. That discovery would scream "compare settings" for the one not working.
The big key to cracking CEC connections is to try to narrow it down to single variables and then test problematic variables. Right now, I suspect HDMI cable, (AppleTV) HDMI input on the Marantz or AppleTV (or maybe Marantz CEC settings for the AppleTV jack if applicable: perhaps something already default on for TIVO jack but not set for the AppleTV jack?) because TIVO "ON" is working like you want but AppleTV "ON" is not. However, my suspicion goes out the window if one of those is hooked directly to the receiver and the other directly to the TV. You are lucky to have one working right now. Use what you know is working to figure out the issue with the other. Swap cable and try. Then swap jacks and try. If TIVO keeps working in all scenarios and AppleTV is not, dig into AppleTV CEC settings because you've basically ruled out cabling and perhaps the whole receiver and receiver settings.
All that offered though, you are trying to test things that may or may not be implemented well, that may or may not adhere to a "standard", etc with no way of knowing if CEC is trying and failing or not. Thus, a learn remote with macros (your Harmony may offer both already) can let you turn OFF CEC on everything and "fake" CEC functionality with one-click (button) macro execution.
However, many want to keep trying to get CEC working anyway so let's try with your setup. Test variables one at a time until you find a possible solution. For example, if you think about the TIVO and AppleTV as "the same" (first link in the CEC chain) for these purposes, one is doing what you want and the other is not. So the first thing I would do, is unhook the HDMI cable from the TIVO, hook that same cable into AppleTV and then turn on AppleTV. If receiver and TV come on as it does now with Tivo in that slot, you'll likely pin this problem down to perhaps the (former) HDMI cable between AppleTV and receiver OR perhaps the input on the receiver for AppleTV.
If the AppleTV (in place of TIVO) turns on the receiver but not the TV. I would re-check my settings in AppleTV... and recheck my cabling between receiver and TV (even testing a different HDMI cable from receiver to TV: first, does TIVO "on" still work, then does "AppleTV" now work?)
How about that cabling? Are you going from smart box (TIVO and AppleTV) into Receiver and from Receiver to TV? Or do you have TIVO and AppleTV hooked to TV and then TV to Receiver? Given the problem, I'm guessing the former.
The proper "flow" would be smart boxes (TIVO and AppleTV) HDMI into Marantz, then single cable from Marantz out to TV (if you have more than one "out" (to TV) jack, look for one marked ARC.
- Tivo or AppleTV "ON" should turn on Receiver.
- Receiver "seeing" a video signal from either, should turn on TV to display that signal.
That Marantz has HDMI jacks as 1 cable/sat 2 DVD 3 blu ray, etc. I wonder if perhaps that DVD connection might be limited to DVD quality and AppleTV is trying to deliver well above that quality. Another experiment would be to try using HDMI 3 "blu ray" instead of HDMI 2 "DVD" from AppleTV. This is unlikely but easy enough to test too.
If you have receiver in the middle (Tivo and Apple TV at one end, Marantz in the middle, TV at other end), try swapping HDMI cables from TIVO to Marantz and AppleTV to Marantz.
- Will TIVO "ON" still work as it does now through what was the AppleTV HDMI cable?
- Does AppleTV work as you want it now using what was the TIVO cable or still the same?
- TIVO HDMI into what was the AppleTV HDMI input work as it does now?
- Does Apple TV into what was the TIVO HDMI input work as you want it too or still only turning on the receiver but not TV?
If you happen to have ANOTHER AppleTV in the house, mix it into the test. For example, does one AppleTV do what you want but the other doesn't? If so, compare settings until you find what is not set up properly on the one not doing what you want it to do. If you don't have an extra AppleTV, maybe a friend does? Ask them to bring it over or loan it to you for some setup tests. If one "just works" the other should too. That discovery would scream "compare settings" for the one not working.
The big key to cracking CEC connections is to try to narrow it down to single variables and then test problematic variables. Right now, I suspect HDMI cable, (AppleTV) HDMI input on the Marantz or AppleTV (or maybe Marantz CEC settings for the AppleTV jack if applicable: perhaps something already default on for TIVO jack but not set for the AppleTV jack?) because TIVO "ON" is working like you want but AppleTV "ON" is not. However, my suspicion goes out the window if one of those is hooked directly to the receiver and the other directly to the TV. You are lucky to have one working right now. Use what you know is working to figure out the issue with the other. Swap cable and try. Then swap jacks and try. If TIVO keeps working in all scenarios and AppleTV is not, dig into AppleTV CEC settings because you've basically ruled out cabling and perhaps the whole receiver and receiver settings.
All that offered though, you are trying to test things that may or may not be implemented well, that may or may not adhere to a "standard", etc with no way of knowing if CEC is trying and failing or not. Thus, a learn remote with macros (your Harmony may offer both already) can let you turn OFF CEC on everything and "fake" CEC functionality with one-click (button) macro execution.
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Here is how I have my home theater set up, and I can turn ON/OFF the TV and sound system and control the volume from any of the remotes from the connected devices.
The HDMI-CEC port on the TV connects to my CEC capable sound system‘s HDMI out port (which happens to be the CEC one). ATV 4K 2017 is connected to the TV’s HDMI port #1. Fire TV Cube is connected to the TV’s HDMI port #2. Blu-Ray player is connected to the TV’s HDMI port #3.
So the ATV 4K 2021 remote, the Fire TV Cube remote, and the Blu-Ray player remote are all able to turn ON/OFF the TV + sound system + their own device as well as control the volume. The TV remote can turn ON/OFF the TV + sound system as well as control the volume.
TV is a Sony Bravia XBR-X800H. Sound system is a Sony HT-G700 3.1 stereo soundbar + subwoofer.
The HDMI-CEC port on the TV connects to my CEC capable sound system‘s HDMI out port (which happens to be the CEC one). ATV 4K 2017 is connected to the TV’s HDMI port #1. Fire TV Cube is connected to the TV’s HDMI port #2. Blu-Ray player is connected to the TV’s HDMI port #3.
So the ATV 4K 2021 remote, the Fire TV Cube remote, and the Blu-Ray player remote are all able to turn ON/OFF the TV + sound system + their own device as well as control the volume. The TV remote can turn ON/OFF the TV + sound system as well as control the volume.
TV is a Sony Bravia XBR-X800H. Sound system is a Sony HT-G700 3.1 stereo soundbar + subwoofer.
On my experience getting HDMI-CEC and Harmony remotes to work together is a nightmare. You are usually better off using one or the other. I personally turn off HDMI-CEC on all devices if I am using a Harmony remote with them, and then just make sure to get the Harmony properly set up to change inputs, control volume, power everything on and off.
My previous TV didn't have HDMI-CEC, so I used a Harmony remote. But once I updated to a TV with HDMI-CEC and quickly saw how easy it was to set up and use, I took the batteries out of the Harmony remote and placed it on a shelf to collect dust. To each their own of course, but I find it much easier to set up an HDMI-CEC system than to have to spend hours programming a finicky Harmony remote, especially when the Harmony always seems to have at least one device with which it just can't work very well, or at all.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Yes, when CEC works, it's great. But that's the problem. Does it work? There's no way for consumers to diagnose if it is even trying to work with different components from different manufacturers unless it "just works." Is it a cable? Is it this component or that one? Is it a jack? Is it a setting? No clues if it doesn't "just work." It turns into a bunch of "narrow it down" logical guesses to try to find some link in the chain that will make it work.
Look at OPs problem. He has a TIVO box and an Apple TV box each probably linked into a Marantz receiver that is then connected to the TV. This is a relatively simple, 3-link chain: smart box to receiver to TV. He turns on Tivo in that setup and Receiver and TV turn on. Turn on AppleTV in that setup and only receiver turns on. Clearly, CEC between Marantz and TV are working when TIVO is turned on. Clearly CEC between TIVO and Marantz is working. So is AppleTV broken?
We can't know. Maybe it's the HDMI cable? Maybe it's one jack vs. another. Maybe it's a setting in AppleTV or the Marantz. CEC doesn't offer any way to diagnose except trial and error. Sometimes you slam in a few things and it "just works." Other times, you put even brand new stuff in and it doesn't work.
My previous TV had CEC and didn't work. My new TV- from the very same manufacturer- has it too and it does work... everything else being the same setup. That's how it is. You get lucky when you link a few things together... or something doesn't work and you have to start guessing at what could be wrong- if anything- in many places... or maybe it's simply CEC implementation on any of the devices not quite being compatible with CEC implementation on the other devices.
Without a way to diagnose CEC connections if they don't work- other than guessing through cable swaps, jack swaps, settings, etc- a good option is to set aside CEC (not quite) standard and use macros to drive the same result. Yes, it can be a hassle to set up remote macros the one time, but at least with them you can be certain about what is supposed to be happening. If the remote can manually do the CEC-like steps desired, it can automate them with one button click by running a macro. That's what leads to trying to make a learn remote with macros "fake" CEC when CEC is not working. In this way, the user can control the equipment with known actions. In the CEC dependency, there's a great element of hope that it just works with no control, nor no easy diagnosis if there is a problem.
You and I are lucky with our current AV stuff. We've hooked them together and they "just work." Others are not lucky, and the remote macro option offers what can be the best workaround when logical guesses are exhausted.
Look at OPs problem. He has a TIVO box and an Apple TV box each probably linked into a Marantz receiver that is then connected to the TV. This is a relatively simple, 3-link chain: smart box to receiver to TV. He turns on Tivo in that setup and Receiver and TV turn on. Turn on AppleTV in that setup and only receiver turns on. Clearly, CEC between Marantz and TV are working when TIVO is turned on. Clearly CEC between TIVO and Marantz is working. So is AppleTV broken?
We can't know. Maybe it's the HDMI cable? Maybe it's one jack vs. another. Maybe it's a setting in AppleTV or the Marantz. CEC doesn't offer any way to diagnose except trial and error. Sometimes you slam in a few things and it "just works." Other times, you put even brand new stuff in and it doesn't work.
My previous TV had CEC and didn't work. My new TV- from the very same manufacturer- has it too and it does work... everything else being the same setup. That's how it is. You get lucky when you link a few things together... or something doesn't work and you have to start guessing at what could be wrong- if anything- in many places... or maybe it's simply CEC implementation on any of the devices not quite being compatible with CEC implementation on the other devices.
Without a way to diagnose CEC connections if they don't work- other than guessing through cable swaps, jack swaps, settings, etc- a good option is to set aside CEC (not quite) standard and use macros to drive the same result. Yes, it can be a hassle to set up remote macros the one time, but at least with them you can be certain about what is supposed to be happening. If the remote can manually do the CEC-like steps desired, it can automate them with one button click by running a macro. That's what leads to trying to make a learn remote with macros "fake" CEC when CEC is not working. In this way, the user can control the equipment with known actions. In the CEC dependency, there's a great element of hope that it just works with no control, nor no easy diagnosis if there is a problem.
You and I are lucky with our current AV stuff. We've hooked them together and they "just work." Others are not lucky, and the remote macro option offers what can be the best workaround when logical guesses are exhausted.
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Thanks all of you for your insights and suggestions. I have tried several of them, but no luck. By the way, I cut the cord yesterday and now have an Apple TV along with my Marantz receiver and Sony TV. At this point, I don’t believe the receiver and the television, both with CEC turned on, are communicating with each other. A Best Buy tech programmed my Harmony remote to turn on my (former) TiVo box, Marantz and Sony with one button push. I don’t think CEC was involved. Now the same button turns on the Marantz and the Sony, but not the Apple TV. My guess is that the Harmony could be reprogrammed to turn on the Apple TV as well, but I’m not going to pay Best Buy $80 to have it done. It’s not the end of the world to turn on two components with the Harmony remote and then the Apple TV with its remote. So, once again thank you for your responses. I now know much more about this technology.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
You could probably learn to program the Harmony to slug AppleTV "on" in place of what was TIVO "on" yourself. If it's a Harmony "learn" remote, this could be as simple as getting it in learn mode and pointing AppleTV remote at it and pushing the power button to teach Harmony that "on" signal. Then it would do what the Harmony was doing with TIVO "on."
I agree, not worth $80 for someone else but look it up. It is not to hard to do a simple thing like that.
AppleTV itself has a "learn remote" feature to learn all of the buttons in can learn that are on your Harmony remote (up, down, left, right, fast forward, etc). That's very easy to set up. So, if you can reprogram TIVO "on" to AppleTV "on", you could replicate what you had (all 3 turn on with one click) and then use the Harmony remote to control AppleTV too.
Here's the step-by-step: https://support.myharmony.com/en-us/creating-button-sequences but I'm assuming that's your Harmony remote or one functionally equivalent. If the Best Buy person can set up a simple macro, you very likely can too. It would be easier for you as you would only be replacing one step in an existing macro.
I agree, not worth $80 for someone else but look it up. It is not to hard to do a simple thing like that.
AppleTV itself has a "learn remote" feature to learn all of the buttons in can learn that are on your Harmony remote (up, down, left, right, fast forward, etc). That's very easy to set up. So, if you can reprogram TIVO "on" to AppleTV "on", you could replicate what you had (all 3 turn on with one click) and then use the Harmony remote to control AppleTV too.
Here's the step-by-step: https://support.myharmony.com/en-us/creating-button-sequences but I'm assuming that's your Harmony remote or one functionally equivalent. If the Best Buy person can set up a simple macro, you very likely can too. It would be easier for you as you would only be replacing one step in an existing macro.
Actually, there is, but it is by no means pleasant or straightforward process.
By getting the PulseEight CEC adapter, one can log and analyze all the traffic happening on the CEC bus.
But one will only get a text file and you’d need to analyze the protocol and events all manually.
Control your TV from Kodi, or vice versa! USB - CEC Adapter
Control your TV, Amplifier and/or Blu-ray Player from Kodi!
The Harmony remotes are pretty simple to program yourself for the basics like getting activities set up. Mapping the individual buttons to different functions gets a little bit more complicated, but it still pretty simple. It is the deeper stuff like changing the power on/input/inter-device delays, or repeats to speed up things that gets more complicated and requires tweaks and testing to figure out, but isn't 100% necessary.
I've programmed a bunch for myself and my family over the years, and would even program them for people online in different forums for a while. I would just have them PM me their login and temporarily have them set their password to something simple like 12345 etc. Then I would log in to their account and make a bunch of changes, and have them log in and update the remote when I was done to test things out. Once I had it working to their satisfaction I would just have them log back in and change their password again so I could no longer access their account. Then I got married and had kids and didn't have time to spend doing that for strangers anymore, ha ha ha.
I've programmed a bunch for myself and my family over the years, and would even program them for people online in different forums for a while. I would just have them PM me their login and temporarily have them set their password to something simple like 12345 etc. Then I would log in to their account and make a bunch of changes, and have them log in and update the remote when I was done to test things out. Once I had it working to their satisfaction I would just have them log back in and change their password again so I could no longer access their account. Then I got married and had kids and didn't have time to spend doing that for strangers anymore, ha ha ha.