Complex questions involving Firewire 800 . . . PLEASE HELP

[Rob Real]

Hi everyone, brand new to this list. Joined in hopes that someone can answer my couple questions about Firewire 800.

Ok, I'm on a Mac G4 w/Panther, and would like to update my audio devices (hard drive, midi int., & audio int.) to Firewire 800. I have a dilemma though due to my 32-bit PCI slots. It seems that EVERY Firewire 800 PCI card (for Mac) is 64-bit. Sure, I can plug a 64-bit card into my 32-bit slot . . but in order to get the full speed out of the Firewire 800, I have to put a 64-bit card in a 64-bit slot. So having said that, my questions are as follows. . .

1) DO THEY MAKE a 32-bit Firewire 800 PCI card for Mac? And if so, is it as fast as it WOULD BE if it were a 64-bit card in a 64-bit slot? (http://www.electronicsoutfitter.com/store/GIC3800.html . . . according to that link, that is what I am looking for . . . although it SAYS 32-bit, it sure as heck looks like 64-bit to me. Any ideas on this?)

2) IF I do put a 64-bit Firewire 800 PCI in my 32-bit slot, I already understand it will not go to the full Firewire speed. So what speed WILL it go to exactly? Will it just be the plain old Firewire 400? Or will it be somewhere in between? I have researched this question for days online and have been unable to find the answer as of yet.

3) Is there some way to change out one of my PCIs on my motherboard? Some way to get rid of one of these 32s and get a 64 instead? Or do I have to get an entirely different computer or motherboard?


PLEASE HELP!!!! I can't seem to find anyone who fully understands this Firewire 800 situation. I'm going crazy over here! Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks so much.

Rob Real
Nu Illusion Music
www.nuillusion.com

 

[Sun Baked]

Which PowerMac G4?

The last one was...

PCI Expansion Slots

The PowerMac G4 computer has four expansion slots using the industry-standard peripheral component interconnect (PCI) bus.

The computer’s case has five openings in the back for access to I/O connectors on cards in the four expansion slots and the AGP slot. The numbering on the casing is 1 through 5 and corresponds to the label on the PCB. Number one is the AGP slot and numbers two through five are PCI slots.

The expansion slots accept 33 MHz PCI cards with either 32-bit or 64-bit address and data buses. The PCI cards can use power at +5 V, +3.3 V, or both. The slots accept standard 6.88-inch and 12.283-inch PCI cards as defined by the PCI Local Bus Specification, Revision 2.1. The cards are required to use the standard ISA fence described in the specification.

The expansion slots support all the required PCI signals and certain optional PCI signals. The PCI slots support the optional 64-bit bus extension signals and cache support signals.

The PCI slots and the AGP-4x slot carry the 3.3 V_AUX power and PME signals to allow an expansion card to wake the computer from sleep mode.

The maximum total power available for all four PCI slots and the AGP-4x slot is 90 watts. The AGP-4x slot can account for up to 30 watts of that total, depending on which card is installed. FireWire ports can account for up to 15 watts.

To install or remove a PCI expansion card, the user first opens the door of the enclosure. Then the user removes the blank PCI fence for the appropriate slot, inserts the card in the slot, and screws the card’s fence into place to secure the card. The user then closes the enclosure door and turns on the computer. In order to use the new PCI card, a driver must be installed. The driver installation procedure is documented by the manufacturer of the PCI card.

The rest of them are here...

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Hardware/hardware2.html

 

[Bear]

(1) You can't change your PCI slots. You would need to change your motherboard. You might as well plan on a new ocmputer.

(2) There are some 64-bit PCI cards that won't work in 32-bit slots. These probably will, but you need to check that. The one on that page does look like a 64-bit card. So it might just work on a 32-bit bus.

(3) It'll probably be more than FW 400 speeds, but you won't know exactly what it will be until you try it.

Why do you want to replace all your firewire devices? Most of them won't gain anything really by having the faster interface. Are you having problems? Also, for audio processing, FW400 should be anough for the hard drive as well. Also, just adding a PCI firwire card and spreading your devices out would improve performance since you would have devices on multiple firewire controllers.

You don't say which PowerMac G4 you have, but the first good step might be to upgrade your computer than see if you need the FW800 for any of the devices. Although, maybe just getting a FW PCI card could help. Or maybe you just need more memory. Without knowing what issues you are having, anything we tell you is just rather generic information.

 

[Sun Baked]

The PowerMac G4s are 64-bit 33MHz PCI slots which can run in 5V or 3.3V...

The XServe G4 and the G5 switched to 64-bit 66MHz PCI which can only run at 3.3V

So I don't see why you keep saying it won't work.

The Yikes G4 and B&W G3 are the only machines you may have trouble with.

 

[Bear]

The PowerMac G4s are 64-bit 33MHz PCI slots which can run in 5V or 3.3V...

The XServe G4 and the G5 switched to 64-bit 66MHz PCI which can only run at 3.3V

So I don't see why you keep saying it won't work.

I actually didn't check to see what type of PCI slots the early G4s have. The picture you put up is specifically the MDD FW800 diagram. I know both MDD varients have 64 bit slots. I just don't rememebr what the earlier ones have.

 

[Sun Baked]

I actually didn't check to see what type of PCI slots the early G4s have. The picture you put up is specifically the MDD FW800 diagram. I know both MDD varients have 64 bit slots. I just don't rememebr what the earlier ones have.

Here is the first PowerMac G4 -- the Sawtooth.

I gave you the link above so you can find your machine.

The machines after the 2x AGP got rid of the bridge chip, so all the 4x AGP system are similar to the top picture.

 

[Sun Baked]

Actually this is probably a bigger problem than the speed at which the card operates.

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/firewire/fw_usb_card_deep_sleep.html

Barefeats should have some tests on FW800 cards on G4s...

www.barefeats.com