I really, really want an iPhone, but I'm very concerned about AT&T's complicity in domestic spying under the guise of patriotism and national security. It seems that AT&T probably knew their actions were illegal but did it any way. I don't know that becoming an AT&T customer, even for an iPhone, is worth the risk of being illegally spied on. I hope Apple reconsiders its business relationship with AT&T and pressures it to clean up its act.
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Concern over AT&T's domestic spying
- Thread starter MacJoe
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Are you doing anything illegal?
If not then why worry about it
If you are then they kind of have a right to spy on you
..don't understand you freedom types, if you honestly believe you don't live in a hegemonic society then so be it. But lets be honest anywhere in the world the government has the ability to listen in or locate your whereabouts in minutes if it so desires.
Don't worry the us troopers aren't going to kick down your door for the odd reefer!
If not then why worry about it
If you are then they kind of have a right to spy on you
..don't understand you freedom types, if you honestly believe you don't live in a hegemonic society then so be it. But lets be honest anywhere in the world the government has the ability to listen in or locate your whereabouts in minutes if it so desires.
Don't worry the us troopers aren't going to kick down your door for the odd reefer!
freedom types?
I know this is not the forum for this but when I read it I just had to reply. You know things are bad when the so called "patriots" start condoning what amounts to illegal wire taps. This is definitely not the America I know. I think it's a very valid issue to question doing business with any company that bows down to this Administration or any administration that uses fear to strip the rights our founding fathers fought for. Your probably one of those people driving a huge SUV with either a "support our troops" or FLAG sticker. I have come to believe that those people's true sense of patriotism runs only as deep as the adhesion behind those stickers. A true AMERICAN has only one view and that is that the only real threat is from the people that run this country who for the most part should all be brought up on TREASON! PEACE.
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I know this is not the forum for this but when I read it I just had to reply. You know things are bad when the so called "patriots" start condoning what amounts to illegal wire taps. This is definitely not the America I know. I think it's a very valid issue to question doing business with any company that bows down to this Administration or any administration that uses fear to strip the rights our founding fathers fought for. Your probably one of those people driving a huge SUV with either a "support our troops" or FLAG sticker. I have come to believe that those people's true sense of patriotism runs only as deep as the adhesion behind those stickers. A true AMERICAN has only one view and that is that the only real threat is from the people that run this country who for the most part should all be brought up on TREASON! PEACE.
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No, they don't have a right to spy - we have a Constitution that forbids such intrusions into private life. But until the government takes something from you that you value - your iphone, say - you probably won't worry about this.
To the OP: you're right, AT&T did something illegal and loathsome with their spying. They apparently sucked up everything on the internet going through their servers and sent it to the Feds. Mindboggling. I wish Qwest had the Apple acct - they were the only telecom to say NO to the government.
i dont want to get involved but i'll wade in anyway.
firstly the government probably wishes it could track any citizen in minutes however this is not the case. There is a lot of bureaucracy and red tape, plus the actual technicalities of tracking someone and finding out where they are .etc. etc. I think mins is an exaggeration, hours, days, yes.
secondly, the laws of a country based on the ideals of freedom and democracy should be protected. In your country this means that the government doesnt have total control over its citizens, that they have rights .etc. The US government has entered into a war on the premise of protecting the values of freedom and democracy, and by illegally watching its citizens is undermining these ideals totally.
It doesn't matter what my personal opinions are, (i personally dont really mind being watched as i have no reason to be worried) however it would worry me that the government is;
a.wasting resources on watching citizens that they have no evidence to suggest have done anything wrong.
and
b. deliberately breaking the law and minimising peoples privacy
the government is there to legislate, and for the government to be legitimate it must act within the boundaries of its own legislation, if people either become to scared to stand up to the government or its ancillary bodies, or are to apathetic to do so when it acts illigally, things can only go downhill.
firstly the government probably wishes it could track any citizen in minutes however this is not the case. There is a lot of bureaucracy and red tape, plus the actual technicalities of tracking someone and finding out where they are .etc. etc. I think mins is an exaggeration, hours, days, yes.
secondly, the laws of a country based on the ideals of freedom and democracy should be protected. In your country this means that the government doesnt have total control over its citizens, that they have rights .etc. The US government has entered into a war on the premise of protecting the values of freedom and democracy, and by illegally watching its citizens is undermining these ideals totally.
It doesn't matter what my personal opinions are, (i personally dont really mind being watched as i have no reason to be worried) however it would worry me that the government is;
a.wasting resources on watching citizens that they have no evidence to suggest have done anything wrong.
and
b. deliberately breaking the law and minimising peoples privacy
the government is there to legislate, and for the government to be legitimate it must act within the boundaries of its own legislation, if people either become to scared to stand up to the government or its ancillary bodies, or are to apathetic to do so when it acts illigally, things can only go downhill.
That's the most dangerous attitude I can imagine. You seem to be forgetting that you don't define what's illegal. The government does. What's legal today can become illegal tomorrow.
I agree with Phill Zimmermann when he said that governments today are approaching omniscience and he doubts that democracy can survive an omniscient government.
I wish Qwest had the Apple acct - they were the only telecom to say NO to the government.
No you don't, believe me. If Qwest and their unending incompetence were powering your iPhone you wouldn't have to worry about bricking it. They would do it for you...