Conforming 25fps and 50fps.

[nateo200]

So allot of people like to use 60fps for slow motion predominately in 24fps short films/videos...however what if instead of 60fps and 24fps I were to switch my camera to PAL video and use 25fps and 50fps? It would seam that since 50fps is exactly double of 25fps it would look good...

Also since the 50fps is 720p and the 25fps is 1080p with my Canon I want the best quality at 720p...should I import them all into a 1080p project export as ProRes in 1080p and then send to compressor to compress to 720p or should I just make it a 720p project? Which would produce the highest quality downsampling of the 1080p 25fps content? I'm doing this purely for curiosity and its just going to be a short video that I will upload when I'm done.

Any advice is appreciated...thanks!

 

[alph45]

60 to 24 produces slower footage than 50 to 25. 50 to 25 should maintain shutter blur better if that's a goal.

24 vs 25 is primarily a broadcast issue, the internet doesn't really care. i would stick to 24 though personally.

if delivery is in 720 make a 720 project and downsample your 1080. Downsampling is always better than upsampling. you also have the option of not downsampling if you want to tweak your 1080 framing in post.

 

[nateo200]

60 to 24 produces slower footage than 50 to 25. 50 to 25 should maintain shutter blur better if that's a goal.

24 vs 25 is primarily a broadcast issue, the internet doesn't really care. i would stick to 24 though personally.

if delivery is in 720 make a 720 project and downsample your 1080. Downsampling is always better than upsampling. you also have the option of not downsampling if you want to tweak your 1080 framing in post.

Yeah the whole NTSC vs PAL thing really isn't an issue with me since I won't be doing TV Broadcasting and Vimeo, YouTube, etc. isn't too concerned. With downsampling though should I downsample first like take all the 1080 clips and downsample via handbrake just throw it all in a 720p project? The plan is to deliver the final video in 1280x720 25p...so yeah I want to maintain shutter blur.

I like 24fps and I agree that I would normally stick to it but I just wanted to test some things my self Though it would seam 25p and 24p are virtually the same but as I don't have 48fps on my camera I figured I would use 50 and 25. Sort of inspired by how the Hobbit is being shot at 48fps...

 

[cgbier]

Shooting PAL in NTSC land is not always a good idea. If you use artificial light, you might end up with flicker in your footage from the different AC frequency (60 in US, 50 in EU).

 

[nateo200]

Shooting PAL in NTSC land is not always a good idea. If you use artificial light, you might end up with flicker in your footage from the different AC frequency (60 in US, 50 in EU).

Yes I realize that. I shot the 25p footage in an area with little lighting, well not artificial lighting at least. All sunlight...was shooting at ISO 100 400 shutter speed and the image still look over exposed so that was not an issue. Besides, the flicker is pretty obvious on the view finder when you aim the camera at a TV, street lamp, etc...obviously use discretion with PAL in NTSC land and if needed I can always shoot 24p and 50p.

 

[KeithPratt]

It would seam that since 50fps is exactly double of 25fps it would look good...

50 to 25 should maintain shutter blur better if that's a goal.

24 @ 1/48th, 25 @ 1/50th, 48 @ 1/96th, 50 @ 1/100th, 60 @ 120th and 275 @ 1/550th all have a shutter angle of 180°, and therefore end up with the same motion blur characteristic when conformed to 24fps. Flickering lights aside, 50fps has no advantage over 60fps if the shutter angle is the same.

Downsampling is always better than upsampling.

Completely disagree. There's no set precedent here — it depends on the circumstances. If the majority of your footage is 1080p, downsampling will take longer and lose quality. If you're doing VFX work, you'll benefit from doing it at 1080p then downscaling to 720p at the end.

should I downsample first like take all the 1080 clips and downsample via handbrake just throw it all in a 720p project?

Handbrake?

Sort of inspired by how the Hobbit is being shot at 48fps...

Yeah, but they're not doing that for slow-mo...


(P.S. 'Allot' and 'seam' don't mean what you think they do.)

 

[nateo200]

24 @ 1/48th, 25 @ 1/50th, 48 @ 1/96th, 50 @ 1/100th, 60 @ 120th and 275 @ 1/550th all have a shutter angle of 180°, and therefore end up with the same motion blur characteristic when conformed to 24fps. Flickering lights aside, 50fps has no advantage over 60fps if the shutter angle is the same.



Completely disagree. There's no set precedent here — it depends on the circumstances. If the majority of your footage is 1080p, downsampling will take longer and lose quality. If you're doing VFX work, you'll benefit from doing it at 1080p then downscaling to 720p at the end.



Handbrake?



Yeah, but they're not doing that for slow-mo...


(P.S. 'Allot' and 'seam' don't mean what you think they do.)

Thanks for that post its really helpful! I did not know the fact about shutter angle so thanks! As for the last comment, yes I know, I did not use slow motion at all really, it was just an experiment..I will definitely be playing more with shutter angle though so I can get a better Idea on solid imagery as that is my entire goal with any piece I'm with/on.