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Considering a switch from Entourage to Mail.app

Y

yamadataro

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Mar 10, 2002
384
0
Tokyo, the most culturally confused city on the pl
I've been a user of Entourage since its original release on OS 9.
Today, I've just checked Mail.app (10.2 one) and it looks much better than in the OS 10.1 days. So I'm thinking about switching to Mail.app and take advantage of the iApp/.Mac stuff. But...

Here's my wonderings:

- Does Mail.app support Base64/MIME formart for Windows PC receivers? It seems like there's no options to select Base64 or AppleDouble or whatever.

- Does it support automatic StuffIt compression like Outlook Express and Entourage do? Well, if it doesn't, I should just compress it manually, I guess.

- Anybody who switched to Mail.app have anything to say about my possible move from Entourage? I'm also curious if you Mail.app users have any complaint?

This topic could have been here before, but anyway,
thanks in advance for your help!
 
I have been considering changing also, but right now Entourage is just better to me. Mainly because its address books just seems alot better in my opinion than the address book that apple has.
 
Originally posted by demonx
I have been considering changing also, but right now Entourage is just better to me. Mainly because its address books just seems alot better in my opinion than the address book that apple has.
Click to expand...

I kinda agree about Apple's address book. It could be better.
And it's got a serious text input issue with Japanese OS X which Apple is officially seeking solutions for.
Entourage is a solid software, I must say.
It's just that I'm always diving into the new stuff :D
That's the best way to learn things don't you think?

Oh and with Mail.app, I don't have to worry about Microsoft trashing it or not upgrading it!
 
There are AppleScripts to send pictures from Entourage from iPhoto. As far as encoding, Mail.app doesn't give you the option of encoding, but I believe it uses AppleDouble, an encoding pattern readable by both platform. I'm not sure about the stuffing, as I rarely send attachmetns.
 
Originally posted by Billicus
As far as encoding, Mail.app doesn't give you the option of encoding, but I believe it uses AppleDouble, an encoding pattern readable by both platform.
Click to expand...

Uh, AppleDouble has caused many problems with my clients who use PCs.
Entourage's AppleDouble emails have somehow been split into two emails, one containing the real email and the other containing nothing but the mail header.

I'm not sure if it's Entourage's or a problem in general though.

If Mail.app can only do AppleDouble, I may have to stay away from it...
 
iMail

I have been using iMail since OS X came out for handling my 2 IMAP accounts with about 25-50 messages per day.

I have not used Entourage.

Good things about iMail:

1) Excellent Interface
- Best I've used (iMail, Outlook, Outlook Express, Eudora, etc)

2) Excellent Support
- continually updated
- keeps getting better (smarter, more stable, faster, etc)

3) Manages multiple accounts in a nice way
- Easily view mail by account
- Eaily view all accounts in a single view
- Replies accordingly with correct email address

4) More stable and less complicated than Outlook on the PC
- A *LOT* more stable than Outlook
- Handles IMAP way better


Bad things about iMail:

1) It's a little bit slow on my iBook 500 (so is everything OS X in general)

2) Search is nice, but needs more advanced mode
 
Originally posted by yamadataro


Uh, AppleDouble has caused many problems with my clients who use PCs.
Entourage's AppleDouble emails have somehow been split into two emails, one containing the real email and the other containing nothing but the mail header.

I'm not sure if it's Entourage's or a problem in general though.

If Mail.app can only do AppleDouble, I may have to stay away from it...
Click to expand...


i have never heard of this problem, and i've never had it myself and i send attachments all the time to pc people. i use mail.app.
 
Originally posted by e-coli
i have never heard of this problem, and i've never had it myself and i send attachments all the time to pc people. i use mail.app.
Click to expand...

Well, so maybe Entourage has caused it then?

When I experienced this problem, I've sent carbon copy mails to all people involed in the project (about 10). And everytime I've sent attachements, all of them complained about the AppleDouble encoded emails. Again, there were always an empty second mail along with the real one.

Or maybe it was Sony's intranet making some weird modifications to the emails. I worked in their office for like 6 months and their intra sucks big time. This is a well know fact, so my NDA's fine :D
 
On the other similar thread you (yamadataro, I mean) said you found Mail too simple when you tried it. At first that was what I thought of it too, but it does everything I need a mail application to do, and in that case, a simpler interface is actually better.

Actually, the one thing I do want it to do that it doesn't is to allow me to do proper IMAP folder subscriptions. It still doesn't. I can live with that quite easily though.

To answer some of your questions, I sent myself a message with an attachment then downloaded the raw message to examine. The message is standard MIME and the attachment is base64 encoded. Here's what the relevant headers look like:


Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:09:23 -0800
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551)
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-2--927146201
Subject: Test with Attachment
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551)

--Apple-Mail-2--927146201
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=US-ASCII;
format=flowed

[Body text appears here]


--Apple-Mail-2--927146201
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename=filename.zip
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Type: application/zip;
x-unix-mode=0644;
x-mac-type=54455854;
name="filename.zip"

[base64-encoded zipfile appears here]

--Apple-Mail-2--927146201
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=US-ASCII;
format=flowed



--Apple-Mail-2--927146201--
Click to expand...

Any PC mail client should be able to make sense of that message. I don't think it does any automatic StuffIt compression, but then I didn't know Entourage and Outlook Express did that either.

The only thing you said that concerned me (for your situation) is that Address Book doesn't correctly support Japanese text. That might cause a problem until Apple fixes it. I correspond with few enough Japanese people that I can get away with romaji in my address book. :) I'm honestly not quite sure why people don't like Apple's Address Book (the Jaguar version, I mean). I see it, functionally, as no different from Entourage's address book. The Jaguar version was a HUGE improvement over previous versions. I never used the older Address Book, but I like the Jaguar one.
 
Originally posted by Gelfin
On the other similar thread you (yamadataro, I mean) said you found Mail too simple when you tried it. At first that was what I thought of it too, but it does everything I need a mail application to do, and in that case, a simpler interface is actually better.

Actually, the one thing I do want it to do that it doesn't is to allow me to do proper IMAP folder subscriptions. It still doesn't. I can live with that quite easily though.

To answer some of your questions, I sent myself a message with an attachment then downloaded the raw message to examine. The message is standard MIME and the attachment is base64 encoded. Here's what the relevant headers look like:

Any PC mail client should be able to make sense of that message. I don't think it does any automatic StuffIt compression, but then I didn't know Entourage and Outlook Express did that either.

The only thing you said that concerned me (for your situation) is that Address Book doesn't correctly support Japanese text. That might cause a problem until Apple fixes it. I correspond with few enough Japanese people that I can get away with romaji in my address book. :) I'm honestly not quite sure why people don't like Apple's Address Book (the Jaguar version, I mean). I see it, functionally, as no different from Entourage's address book. The Jaguar version was a HUGE improvement over previous versions. I never used the older Address Book, but I like the Jaguar one.
Click to expand...


That thread you just mentioned has actually made me wanting to try out Mail.
And here I am.

By saying "Mail is too simple", I meant that it didn't have (or seem to have) enough functions I want compared to Entourage. I totally agree with you that the simple interface is better.

As to the IMAP stuff, I only use POPs and I'll be OK.

I'm hoping that Apple will fix that Japanese text issue on Address Book soon. But I'm thinking the fix won't be included at least until next OS update (10.2.4?). There's no point in using Mail if Address Book is not fully functioning. After reading your comment about the Address Book, I realize it's nicer than Entourage's, at least. I almost never use Entourage's address book...

And thanks for the email experiment. So, AppleDouble mail w/attachement is simply a Base64 enocoded attachement with some extra headers and stuff then.
 
Just a sec!
Does Mail send emails as Base64 then???

Here's what I've found on www.macmail.com:

If you're sending a Mac file to a correspondent who's not using a Mac, but who can handle the data of a Mac file (be it text or any other format), use AppleDouble. If the email client he's using is suitably advanced, then it will be able to present the data portion of the file. Again, it doesn't matter what transfer-encoding you use, assuming that the recipient's email client is reasonably modern.

If you're sending a Mac file to a correspondent who's not using a Mac, but the Mac file must be used in its entirety (data, resources, info) and no part is disposable, then use AppleSingle. Your correspondent will more than likely need a Mac to use the file anyway, but AppleSingle is a packaging that can be transported across multiple (non-Mac) platforms and from which the original Mac file can be re-created in its entirety. If any part of an AppleDouble package is lost, you'll be unable to recreate the original file.

As with AppleDouble, the transfer-encoding is irrelevant so long as the receiving client can decode it. Most modern clients can handle BASE64 and decode it.
Click to expand...

So the encoding always is Base64 no matter what. It's the packaging method that's different...

This stuff is making me confused.
 
I used to use Entorage in OS 9, but I've been using Mail.app since OS X came out. It started out stupidly unstable, but now it is rock solid. I use it for 5 different email accounts and it's great.

On top of all the other benifits that have been mentioned, the junk mail filter it uses is just plain brilliant. I haven't got a junk email in one of my inboxes for ages.
 
i find that too.

mail.app's junk filter is so intelligent that i dont get any junk. the last junk i got was a while ago all i did was junk it, then delete it.

i still have the filter in training mode too. i know that it is deleteing them cause when i used Entourage i got all of them back in my inbox again.

a simple trip to mail fixed that. i have never used Entourage since then.
 
for me it was also very cool to have this sound, when an email arrives. also the sign that appears in the dock when a new email is unread is nice and a good reminder to check mail.
i switched from entourage to mail.app half a year ago and never regret it.
.a
 
Here's the first wall I've just run into:

I have my own dedicated server running in Texas and I have a number of alias-only mail addresses on it (addresses that only forward emails without the actual mail storage and user logins).

I need to create mail accounts on Mail with these alias reply addresses. But Mail seems to only work well with actual mail full feature accounts. Entourage is OK about doing this.

I'm temporarily back to Entourgae because of this.
I'll try to see if there's anything I can do about this. Maybe I should just convert these alias addresses to real ones.

I guess Apple didn't make Mail for a guy with his own mail server...
That's understandable.
 
In the middle of the MWSF frenzy, I was quietly going through the Entourage to Mail switch. I was actually more than convinced about this switch after watching SJ's keynote. Apple's application integration seemed so promissing.

But after using Mail for a coupla days, it was not just the visual stuff that was simple. The functions were too simple.

The only things Entourage didn't achieve was the custome sound, better spam filter and the nicer interface. For anything else, Entourage won. I guess for email user with less demanding usage, Mail is totally nice. But for the kinda guy who gets 5000+ emails a year among 6 different accounts for business and pleasure (5000 is not much compared to many other guys out there), Mail is not good enough, function-wise that is. Mail is just not productive enough.

So I've switched back to Entourage. Period.
I've dreamed of dipping myself in the Apple software world, but in the Mail's case, it didn't work out as I hoped.

Well, maybe the next version of Mail would be better?
 
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