Created a Roaming Network, can I still use the LAN ports?

[drec1500]

I have two Airport Extremes that I connect via ethernet creating a roaming network. The Base station connects to the internet via a Telefonica ADSL modem. Everything works fine until I attempt to use a LAN port on the extended Apple Extreme. Then the internet just stops working.

I'm thinking its the configuration of the ADSL modem. Maybe a static vs dynamic ip addressing.


Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance

 

[Altemose]

I have two Airport Extremes that I connect via ethernet creating a roaming network. The Base station connects to the internet via a Telefonica ADSL modem. Everything works fine until I attempt to use a LAN port on the extended Apple Extreme. Then the internet just stops working.

I'm thinking its the configuration of the ADSL modem. Maybe a static vs dynamic ip addressing.


Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance

Is the first base station in Bridge Mode or DHCP and NAT Mode?

 

[blueroom]

One AEBS connects to the modem via the WAN connection, the other AEBS connects from its WAN to the other AEBS GigE port.

 

[drec1500]

Is the first base station in Bridge Mode or DHCP and NAT Mode?

The first base station (the one connected to the ADSL modem) is in Bridge Mode (Network tab of the Airport Utility)

It uses DHCP to connect to the internet (under the internet tab of the Airport Utility)

 

[blueroom]

Put the modem in gateway or bridge mode. Let the AEBS do the DHCP, don't put them in bridge mode.

 

[drec1500]

One AEBS connects to the modem via the WAN connection, the other AEBS connects from its WAN to the other AEBS GigE port.

Yes, the Main AEBS connects to the ADSL router via its WAN port. An ethernet cable then runs from one of the LAN ports of the Main AEBS to the WAN port of the Extended AEBS. Both AEBS's are in Bridge Mode.

With this setup everything works fine wirelessly.

----------

Put the modem in gateway or bridge mode. Let the AEBS do the DHCP, don't put them in bridge mode.

If I do that and then connect the two AEBS's with an ethernet cable, will the roaming network still function?

 

[Bruno09]

Is your Telefonica device a modem OR a modem-router ?

 

[drec1500]

Is your Telefonica device a modem OR a modem-router ?

It's a modem router

 

[blueroom]

Yes, the Main AEBS connects to the ADSL router via its WAN port. An ethernet cable then runs from one of the LAN ports of the Main AEBS to the WAN port of the Extended AEBS. Both AEBS's are in Bridge Mode.

With this setup everything works fine wirelessly.

----------



If I do that and then connect the two AEBS's with an ethernet cable, will the roaming network still function?

Yes, I have a similar setup. Trick is turning your ISP router into a modem. You only use it's ports for the one AEBS.

 

[Bruno09]

If you use the Telefonica as router (not in bridge mode), with DHCP enabled, your setup with the two AE in bridge mode should work, even if you use a LAN port of either AE.

So, something is wrong in the router : check that DHCP is enabled, and that the DHCP range is large enough for all the devices of the network.

Alternatively, you could set the Telefonica in bridge mode (and DHCP off) and the first AE in router mode (DHCP + NAT).
The second AE in bridge mode.
Telefonica's wifi off.

 

[drec1500]

If you use the Telefonica as router (not in bridge mode), with DHCP enabled, your setup with the two AE in bridge mode should work, even if you use a LAN port of either AE.

So, something is wrong in the router : check that DHCP is enabled, and that the DHCP range is large enough for all the devices of the network.

Alternatively, you could set the Telefonica in bridge mode (and DHCP off) and the first AE in router mode (DHCP + NAT).
The second AE in bridge mode.
Telefonica's wifi off.

Thanks, I'll give that a try.

 

[Altemose]

The first base station (the one connected to the ADSL modem) is in Bridge Mode (Network tab of the Airport Utility)



It uses DHCP to connect to the internet (under the internet tab of the Airport Utility)

You should not have a bridge behind a bridge. That is asking for problems. Set the first AirPort to DHCP and NAT mode and put the modem into bridge mode.

----------

The first base station (the one connected to the ADSL modem) is in Bridge Mode (Network tab of the Airport Utility)



It uses DHCP to connect to the internet (under the internet tab of the Airport Utility)

You should not have a bridge behind a bridge. That is asking for problems. Set the first AirPort to DHCP and NAT mode and put the modem into bridge mode.

 

[Bruno09]

You should not have a bridge behind a bridge. That is asking for problems.

This is how my network is set up and this does work :

ISP'modem-router (can't disable the router mode) + Airport Extreme in bridge mode + Airport Express (last generation) in bridge mode.

The 2 Airport create a roaming network.
The modem-router's wifi is off.

Clients :
- iPhone (wifi)
- iPad mini (wifi)
- Macbook Pro connected via Ethernet to Extreme
- Macbook 2010 connected via Ethernet to Express
- the two Macbooks also use the wifi network when not wired to the AEs.

Works flawlessly.

 

[Altemose]

This is how my network is set up and this does work :

ISP'modem-router (can't disable the router mode) + Airport Extreme in bridge mode + Airport Express (last generation) in bridge mode.

The 2 Airport create a roaming network.
The modem-router's wifi is off.

Clients :
- iPhone (wifi)
- iPad mini (wifi)
- Macbook Pro connected via Ethernet to Extreme
- Macbook 2010 connected via Ethernet to Express
- the two Macbooks also use the wifi network when not wired to the AEs.

Works flawlessly.

It is iffy because you are trying to speak IP out through two devices. Even in Bridge Mode they are not as transparent as an unmanaged switch. So if the first AirPort was doing router duties it would be fine.

What works for some doesn't work for others.

 

[eduardrw]

If you have a cheap ethernet switch (5 or 8 port) insert it before your Airport Express.
ISP'modem-router (can't disable the router mode) + Airport Extreme in bridge mode -- Switch 5/8 port
---- Airport Express (last generation) in bridge mode.
--- other devices

that should cure your problems.
Another alternative is to see if your ISP modem/router has a DMZ capability. If so, put the Airport Extreme in the DMZ. This effectively works as if the ISP is only a modem.
Then let the A. Extreme be DCHP+ Nat - The A. Express remains in Bridge mode.

 

[Bruno09]

Even in Bridge Mode they are not as transparent as an unmanaged switch.

I don't think so.

I have setup many networks using both the Extreme as main router, or in bridge mode.

In bridge mode, the Extreme acts as : a switch + a wireless access point.

You can connect an Ethernet cable between the modem-router and ANY of the Ethernet ports on the Extreme : in bridge mode, all the Ethernet ports are the same. (in router mode, the Ethernet cable must connected to the WAN port).

For testing purposes, I have connected 1 more Extreme + 1 Express more to my Extreme, so it's 2 Extremes + 2 Expresses in the same network, all in bridge mode :
Extreme 1 + Express 1 : SSID 1 (roaming network)
Extreme 2 : SSID 2
Express 2 : SSID 3

This works perfectly.

Of course, using the Extreme 1 as main router would work too, and this is the setup I use most often.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4260

 

[Altemose]

I don't think so.

I have setup many networks using both the Extreme as main router, or in bridge mode.

In bridge mode, the Extreme acts as : a switch + a wireless access point.

You can connect an Ethernet cable between the modem-router and ANY of the Ethernet ports on the Extreme : in bridge mode, all the Ethernet ports are the same. (in router mode, the Ethernet cable must connected to the WAN port).

For testing purposes, I have connected 1 more Extreme + 1 Express more to my Extreme, so it's 2 Extremes + 2 Expresses in the same network, all in bridge mode :
Extreme 1 + Express 1 : SSID 1 (roaming network)
Extreme 2 : SSID 2
Express 2 : SSID 3

This works perfectly.

Of course, using the Extreme 1 as main router would work too, and this is the setup I use most often.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4260

Like I said before, what works for some doesn't work for others. I am happy to hear that it works for you though.

By definition, a managed device is anything accessible on the network. An unmanaged switch is not accessible and simply acts as a power strip on the network. When in Bridge Mode, the AirPort does have an IP address and simply passes the DHCP traffic through. It isn't a total unmanaged device equivalent.

 

[Bruno09]

I was just trying to explain that this is not exact :

You should not have a bridge behind a bridge. That is asking for problems.

An Extreme connected to an Extreme, both in bridge mode, this is not "a bridge behind a bridge" : it is two access points connected to the same switch (the switch being in the first Extreme).

 

[Altemose]

I was just trying to explain that this is not exact :



An Extreme connected to an Extreme, both in bridge mode, this is not "a bridge behind a bridge" : it is two access points connected to the same switch (the switch being in the first Extreme).

I agree! I was just trying to explain that it doesn't always work well in that situation.

 

[drec1500]

If you use the Telefonica as router (not in bridge mode), with DHCP enabled, your setup with the two AE in bridge mode should work, even if you use a LAN port of either AE.

So, something is wrong in the router : check that DHCP is enabled, and that the DHCP range is large enough for all the devices of the network.

Alternatively, you could set the Telefonica in bridge mode (and DHCP off) and the first AE in router mode (DHCP + NAT).
The second AE in bridge mode.
Telefonica's wifi off.

I was finally able to check out the actual configuration of the Telefonica router.
It is not very clear and doesn't allow for changing much. It appears to be in DHCP mode with no option to turn it off. The IP range goes from .33 to .199.

The thing is Telefonica offered Cable service via the telephone line for free and I took them up on the offer. The setup and controls allowed on the router were changed by them for the cable access.

I think it's strange that using one of the LAN ports of the extended AEBS would whack out the internet but then again maybe it is the unit itself that has a problem.

 

[Bruno09]

Ok.

I think you should create a network from your first AE that is connected to the Telefonica modem-router :

1. modem-router : don't change anything, it doesn't matter.
Just note its IP address range, say : 192.168.1.x

2. first AE :
- Internet : static IP : 192.168.1.10 (out of the IP range .33 to .199)
subnet mask : 255.255.255.0
Router : modem-router's IP address : 192.168.1.x
DNS server : idem

- Network : DHCP + NAT
IP range : 10.0.1.x, or 172.16.1.x (do not use 192.168.1.x)

3. second AE :
- Internet : static IP : 192.168.1.11
subnet mask : 255.255.255.0
Router : modem-router's IP address : 192.168.1.x
DNS server : idem

- Network : router mode : bridge mode


WIFI :
- AE 1 + AE2 = roaming network
- Telefonica : disabled or enabled with another SSID

It appears to be in DHCP mode with no option to turn it off.

The DHCP server in ON, but are you SURE the router mode is ON ?

 

[drec1500]

Ok.

I think you should create a network from your first AE that is connected to the Telefonica modem-router :

1. modem-router : don't change anything, it doesn't matter.
Just note its IP address range, say : 192.168.1.x

2. first AE :
- Internet : static IP : 192.168.1.10 (out of the IP range .33 to .199)
subnet mask : 255.255.255.0
Router : modem-router's IP address : 192.168.1.x
DNS server : idem

- Network : DHCP + NAT
IP range : 10.0.1.x, or 172.16.1.x (do not use 192.168.1.x)

3. second AE :
- Internet : static IP : 192.168.1.11
subnet mask : 255.255.255.0
Router : modem-router's IP address : 192.168.1.x
DNS server : idem

- Network : router mode : bridge mode


WIFI :
- AE 1 + AE2 = roaming network
- Telefonica : disabled or enabled with another SSID



The DHCP server in ON, but are you SURE the router mode is ON ?

Thanks for this information. A tech from Telefonica is coming today but they don't get involved with what's not theirs. so if he cannot troubleshoot it then I will give your solution a go.

One question: What does DNS Server : idem, mean?

 

[Bruno09]

Hi,

sorry for "idem" (=same as)

The "DNS server" address must be the modem-router's local IP address.

2. first AE :
- Internet : static IP : 192.168.1.10 (out of the IP range .33 to .199)
subnet mask : 255.255.255.0
Router : modem-router's IP address : 192.168.1.x
DNS server : modem-router's IP address : 192.168.1.x

3. second AE :
- Internet : static IP : 192.168.1.11
subnet mask : 255.255.255.0
Router : modem-router's IP address : 192.168.1.x
DNS server : modem-router's IP address : 192.168.1.x

EDIT : if you configure the network as explained above, you will get a "Double NAT" warning in Airport Utility, and the AE light will be blinking amber.


That is normal. If you are prompted to "ignore the problem", select ignore and the light will turn green.