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D4 vs. D800 Question

C

Chiggs

macrumors member
Original poster
Jan 4, 2007
76
0
Acknowledging that neither camera has yet been released, I would appreciate input on the practical differences between the two for the purpose that I will buy one.

I'm not a professional but enjoy photography a lot. I take pictures of my family, my daughters basketball team, and landscapes / wildlife. I'm currently using a D300 with the 24-70 2.8 and the 70-200 VR II 2.8 and have been waiting for a couple of years to move to a full frame camera.

I appreciate that the D800 captures more detail at the expense of fps and high ISO quality but would appreciate a perspective on likely image quality differences when shooting at ISO 1600-6400 in natural light.

I have pre-ordered a D4 as I hate flash and love shooting with only natural light. There will be the odd time when I would appreciate the 10fps found in the D4 but not enough to warrant buying the camera just for that feature.

I would love the additional detail afforded by the D800 but if my image quality will suffer noticeably in the ISO 1600-6400 range will plan to just stick with the D4 order. If people feel that image noise in this ISO range will be similar between cameras, then I will cancel and order the D800 and spend the difference on the 14-24 2.8 and the grip. I know the difference in quality will be much more visible at ISO 12800 and above but can't see shooting at that range.

I'm also assuming that focus speed will be identical between the two cameras. If anyone feels otherwise, please let me know.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts...
 
based on the high-iso jogs that are floating from the D800 and basedon what some people gotten out of the image when doing very basic NR on the ISO 6400 images, i would personally say it's extremely good. 6400 is still a native ISO range and it performs damn good IMHO in those ISO ranges...
 
Hi Chiggs.
In response to the ISO query and image quality. I would imagine at 6400 that you would have some NR to do in post processing to get clean images. Then again, it all depends on what you are doing with these images and how big are you making than afterwards.
I moved from a D90 to a D3s & also use a D7000. The D3s is amazing at handling noise as you probably already know.The d4 being twice as good will be amazing to use. If low light is a concern, you will probably benefit more from the d4.If I had a D4 shooting basket ballgames, you'd obviously need a fast shutter speed so you'd need a high ISO. I'd imagine 1s0 18000 would be noise free.
I'm strongly thinking of getting the D800 myself. I would be using it for landscape mainly and some wedding photography. If I didn't have the D3s, I'd be selling a kidney to get the D4.
 
tradman said:
Hi Chiggs.
In response to the ISO query and image quality. I would imagine at 6400 that you would have some NR to do in post processing to get clean images. Then again, it all depends on what you are doing with these images and how big are you making than afterwards.
I moved from a D90 to a D3s & also use a D7000. The D3s is amazing at handling noise as you probably already know.The d4 being twice as good will be amazing to use. If low light is a concern, you will probably benefit more from the d4.If I had a D4 shooting basket ballgames, you'd obviously need a fast shutter speed so you'd need a high ISO. I'd imagine 1s0 18000 would be noise free.
I'm strongly thinking of getting the D800 myself. I would be using it for landscape mainly and some wedding photography. If I didn't have the D3s, I'd be selling a kidney to get the D4.
Click to expand...

Spot on. I was torn until I decided, what the hell. I ordered a D4 and a D800 to suit both of my shooting needs. I shoot quite a bit of street, and sports, and movement and I am a lover of low light and natural shooting while I also love to shoot landscapes. I think I am covered with both.
 
I could I could afford one of these cameras! They look so awesome! Still shooting on my D200 currently...
 
photomatt69 said:
Sounds like someone has to much money. Let the WORKING pro's get there camera's first. The d300 will do fine for what your shooting.
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like someone needs to:

1. Worry about how little money you make and not how much I make.
2. See number 1.
3. Get a clue... Pick one up at the door on your way out.

Repeat step 3 as needed.

P.S. I have a D3S. Learn to read. Also the word is "their" not "there". Try learning before posting.
 
Last edited:
Chiggs said:
Acknowledging that neither camera has yet been released, I would appreciate input on the practical differences between the two for the purpose that I will buy one.

I'm not a professional but enjoy photography a lot. I take pictures of my family, my daughters basketball team, and landscapes / wildlife. I'm currently using a D300 with the 24-70 2.8 and the 70-200 VR II 2.8 and have been waiting for a couple of years to move to a full frame camera.

I appreciate that the D800 captures more detail at the expense of fps and high ISO quality but would appreciate a perspective on likely image quality differences when shooting at ISO 1600-6400 in natural light.

I have pre-ordered a D4 as I hate flash and love shooting with only natural light. There will be the odd time when I would appreciate the 10fps found in the D4 but not enough to warrant buying the camera just for that feature.

I would love the additional detail afforded by the D800 but if my image quality will suffer noticeably in the ISO 1600-6400 range will plan to just stick with the D4 order. If people feel that image noise in this ISO range will be similar between cameras, then I will cancel and order the D800 and spend the difference on the 14-24 2.8 and the grip. I know the difference in quality will be much more visible at ISO 12800 and above but can't see shooting at that range.

I'm also assuming that focus speed will be identical between the two cameras. If anyone feels otherwise, please let me know.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts...
Click to expand...

The D-N series cameras have traditionally had faster CPUs than the D-NNN series of cameras.

The D-N series have higher voltage batteries, I think that makes AF a bit quicker.

The D800 will show diffraction much sooner, but can be downsampled. If you shoot past f/8 a lot it could be an issue.

I much prefer the integrated grip- if you're shooting a lot in portrait mode, that's worth a bit IMO.

Visible quality is highly dependent on output medium, subject and technique. If you're not outputting to 20x30 or so it's probably not going to make a bunch of difference other than low-light noise.

Learn to light, the "I only shoot natural light" is a symptom of not being able to light well and not being comfortable lighting-- you shouldn't let your photography be that limited.

The D4 will be a much better basketball camera. The D800 will be a bit better landscape camera. Either will be fine for family pictures. Downsampled and cropped images out of the D800 will probably be better for most wildlife, though not really enough to make a difference.

The D4's shutter is rated for 400000 actuations, the D800's 200000.

The D4 will take about 2600 shots on a full charge, the D800 about 900. If you're good at charging and managing batteries, then it's a toss-up, if you're not very good at it, the DN series battery life is a lifesaver- you can forget about the camera for two months and pick it up and still get a reasonable number of shots. Personally, I could occasionally shoot 900 shots in a day shooting wild subjects like Bald Eagles, I'd be hard-pressed to shoot 2600. 1/3rd the number of batteries to worry about is a bonus for me.

Paul
 
compuwar said:
Learn to light, the "I only shoot natural light" is a symptom of not being able to light well and not being comfortable lighting-- you shouldn't let your photography be that limited.

Paul
Click to expand...
This one I like a lot. I will have to quote you on that :) As far as the whole camera difference goes.. the d4 should be more durable (shutter count etc.) and other thing simply because it costs twice as much as the d800.
To be honest, if you want a basketball camera and are worried if you can afford it or not.. get a second hand d700 with a grip. together its much else than the d800 and you get the 8fps and a damn good camera, albeit a bit dated now, which can produce extremely nice results.
 
@compuwar,

Great post. Please correct me but I think the D4 and D800 share the same processing power. Basically the same camera but for those geared towards action the D4 will be the one to get. I shoot quite a bit of landscapes and street photography so the D4 will be my "compromise" shooter. I did order a D800 as well just in case I want to split one (D800) for landscape duty and the D4 as my all around shooter. Nikon made it hard to decide. :)
 
sapporobaby said:
@compuwar,

Great post. Please correct me but I think the D4 and D800 share the same processing power. Basically the same camera but for those geared towards action the D4 will be the one to get. I shoot quite a bit of landscapes and street photography so the D4 will be my "compromise" shooter. I did order a D800 as well just in case I want to split one (D800) for landscape duty and the D4 as my all around shooter. Nikon made it hard to decide. :)
Click to expand...

They share the same family of processor, but I haven't seen anything definitive about the actual CPU yet- it may indeed be the same chip running at the same speed- the video stuff may make that necessary.

Here's the issue for landscapes though- you're not going to shoot f/11 or f/16 without diffraction- I'm not sure how much downsampling will help. To me, the answer is that you're going to have to focus stack (Zerene Stacker is my fav.) to get truly impressive landscape images out of a D800/D800e (for landscapes, I'd probably go with the 800e.)

Paul
 
compuwar said:
They share the same family of processor, but I haven't seen anything definitive about the actual CPU yet- it may indeed be the same chip running at the same speed- the video stuff may make that necessary.

Here's the issue for landscapes though- you're not going to shoot f/11 or f/16 without diffraction- I'm not sure how much downsampling will help. To me, the answer is that you're going to have to focus stack (Zerene Stacker is my fav.) to get truly impressive landscape images out of a D800/D800e (for landscapes, I'd probably go with the 800e.)

Paul
Click to expand...

You are the man. So are you saying forgo the D4 all together and go strictly with the D800E or forgo the D800 and still get the D4?
 
bwhli said:
I could I could afford one of these cameras! They look so awesome! Still shooting on my D200 currently...
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with that! The High ISO performance on a D200 is the only downfall really with this camera. I still shoot with it. I always have speedlight attached to it anyhow, along with a Fong Dome diffuser. It's still a heck of a performer with the 17-55mm which never leaves the camera.
 
I would get the D800/E for you. You don't need the super high iso and the extra resolution would be nice for you.

Personally, although some like the integrated grip I wouldn't care for it being on all the time because when you want a compact camera the grip is always there.
 
compuwar said:
For landscapes, a copy of Zerene Stacker, Autopano Pro and a D800E would be my choice.

Paul
Click to expand...

There are also other ways around the diffraction problem. Devonvolution sharpening is one.

However, a tilt shift lens is also another, for the right subjects. I think the combination of a PC-E lens and the D800E will provide a "gear synergy" of sorts, with an ultra high resolution sensor, the optical movements to defeat diffraction, and even some built-in stitching to boot.

Here's hoping for a <24mm PC-E, and a 24mm PC-E II, or even some alternatives made by 3rd party manufacturers like Zeiss. Unfortunately Nikon's PC-E lens offerings are clearly a step behind Canon's.
 
Ruahrc said:
There are also other ways around the diffraction problem. Devonvolution sharpening is one.
Click to expand...

Deconvolution tries to approach the original signal, focus stacking IS the original signal- when it warms up, I'll do some testing, but my gut is that focus stacking is going to produce more and better detail. Deconvolution is useful where you only get a single shot such as when there's subject motion- windy days for landscape subjects for instance.

Ruahrc said:
However, a tilt shift lens is also another, for the right subjects. I think the combination of a PC-E lens and the D800E will provide a "gear synergy" of sorts, with an ultra high resolution sensor, the optical movements to defeat diffraction, and even some built-in stitching to boot.
Click to expand...

Movements don't change the physics of diffraction, they simply change the plane of focus. Small format cameras don't really offer enough range of movement for me for many subjects, but then I shot LF for a number of years so I've been spoiled. Tilts may allow you to use a larger aperture while keeping multiple objects in the plane of focus, but that's more likely to be the case for smaller, closer subjects than landscapes though it can work for NMF-type images if you've got enough tilt for your placement.

Paul
 
Chiggs said:
I'm not a professional but enjoy photography a lot.
Click to expand...

Ask yourself what, exactly, is limiting you now with the D300? It's one of the best Prosumer cameras made and has extremely good low light capabilities.
 
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