iPhone 12 Pro DAC for DSD files on iPhone 12 pro ?

[jwar1976]

Hi all,

I have been getting addicted to Hi-Res audio files at home on my Yamaha Musiccast and was wondering if something like the Hiby R3 Pro or other dac can be connected to the iPhone either via wired or Bluetooth for the playback of DSD files ?.

Many thanks

 

[Shirasaki]

Hi all,

I have been getting addicted to Hi-Res audio files at home on my Yamaha Musiccast and was wondering if something like the Hiby R3 Pro or other dac can be connected to the iPhone either via wired or Bluetooth for the playback of DSD files ?.

Many thanks

Bluetooth bandwidth for “incompatible” devices connected to iPhone is abysmal. One analysis shows Apple defaults SBC (the worst audio codec option) for generic devices (which basically means every single device sans Apple logo). That codec is horrible for HiFi because of limited bandwidth. Use wire whenever possible. But I don’t know if Apple iPhone’s internal DAC would do something funky.

 

[jwar1976]

Bluetooth bandwidth for “incompatible” devices connected to iPhone is abysmal. One analysis shows Apple defaults SBC (the worst audio codec option) for generic devices (which basically means every single device sans Apple logo). That codec is horrible for HiFi because of limited bandwidth. Use wire whenever possible. But I don’t know if Apple iPhone’s internal DAC would do something funky.

Thank you for the explanation, originally I was hoping to get some headphones with multipoint capabilities so I could listen to DSD files on a Hi Res player and never miss a call whilst listening to music. However upon doing researc, I found out that Hi Res bluetooth codecs on headphones like LDAC are disabled when multipoint is active, which then is deemed pointless.

 

[Shirasaki]

Thank you for the explanation, originally I was hoping to get some headphones with multipoint capabilities so I could listen to DSD files on a Hi Res player and never miss a call whilst listening to music. However upon doing researc, I found out that Hi Res bluetooth codecs on headphones like LDAC are disabled when multipoint is active, which then is deemed pointless.

iirc some Android device tout hifi related design and feature which would be fun. But i never used an android device so no experience. If you happen to have a friend owning similar device you can borrow from them and see how it goes.

 

[secretk]

Thank you for the explanation, originally I was hoping to get some headphones with multipoint capabilities so I could listen to DSD files on a Hi Res player and never miss a call whilst listening to music. However upon doing researc, I found out that Hi Res bluetooth codecs on headphones like LDAC are disabled when multipoint is active, which then is deemed pointless.

In my opinion if you want to enjoy HI res audio files, you need the best possible hardware setup - this means wired. I have not tested LDAC headphones that can support multipoint but are you sure that is disabled? I mean for you, it would work if LDAC is activated on the Hi Res player only as you would use the other device for calls only.

Btw what headphones that support LDAC have you checked?

 

[jwar1976]

In my opinion if you want to enjoy HI res audio files, you need the best possible hardware setup - this means wired. I have not tested LDAC headphones that can support multipoint but are you sure that is disabled? I mean for you, it would work if LDAC is activated on the Hi Res player only as you would use the other device for calls only.

Btw what headphones that support LDAC have you checked?

i have just read The manual of the XM4 as it states calls cannot be made via Bluetooth when the csble is connected which means I have got the wrong end of the stick 🙈, I was under the impression that wired connection was superior to Bluetooth and that only wired connection would give Hi Res quality. It turns out I was completely wrong.

 

[snipr125]

Fiio make a couple of of their DACs specifically for the iphone. The Fiio Q1 Mk2 has DSD support (The Mk3 version has just been released which is even better).

FiiO Q1ii (2nd Gen) DAC and Headphone Amplifier

The FiiO Q1ii is a portable DAC/Amp. An M-Fi certified model, it has been created with iOS devices in mind, and has native DSD decoding. The Q1ii utilizes the professional AK4452 DAC chip, and supports up to 384kHz/32bit for PCM format, and native DSD up to DSD256. The Q1ii is also Hi-Res Audio C...

www.amazon.co.uk

 

[secretk]

i have just read The manual of the XM4 as it states calls cannot be made via Bluetooth when the csble is connected which means I have got the wrong end of the stick 🙈, I was under the impression that wired connection was superior to Bluetooth and that only wired connection would give Hi Res quality. It turns out I was completely wrong.

I have the XM3 so my experience might be a bit different but indeed if you use them with cable, then Bluetooth is not enabled. You can turn them on to use the noise cancelling, but I don't think that you can connect them to a Bluetooth device.

Also in my testing of using XM3 with cable (on my laptop) and XM3 with LDAC (on my Sony phone) I felt that that the Bluetooth/LDAC combo offered me better sound quality than the cable sound. Of course in both cases there was no DAC involved and it was not super Hi res audio as I sadly do not own that many Hi Res audio files.

I have read good things about the Filo DAC indeed but I have not tried them myself.

 

[Lyric9]

I have the XM3 so my experience might be a bit different but indeed if you use them with cable, then Bluetooth is not enabled. You can turn them on to use the noise cancelling, but I don't think that you can connect them to a Bluetooth device.

Also in my testing of using XM3 with cable (on my laptop) and XM3 with LDAC (on my Sony phone) I felt that that the Bluetooth/LDAC combo offered me better sound quality than the cable sound. Of course in both cases there was no DAC involved and it was not super Hi res audio as I sadly do not own that many Hi Res audio files.

I have read good things about the Filo DAC indeed but I have not tried them myself.

The reason why bluetooth/ldac offered you better sound quality is because Sony made the XM3 for wireless usage and has a DAC, AMP and DSP built into the headphones. When you use them wired they bypass all of that and sound a lot worse. Don't get a DAC for XM3

 

[secretk]

The reason why bluetooth/ldac offered you better sound quality is because Sony made the XM3 for wireless usage and has a DAC, AMP and DSP built into the headphones. When you use them wired they bypass all of that and sound a lot worse. Don't get a DAC for XM3

Thanks for the info! That explains why I sensed it this way. I was a bit doubting myself as I am not audiophile but what you say makes sense and explains why I felt that the wireless road gave me a superior experience.

 

[jwar1976]

Fiio make a couple of of their DACs specifically for the iphone. The Fiio Q1 Mk2 has DSD support (The Mk3 version has just been released which is even better).

FiiO Q1ii (2nd Gen) DAC and Headphone Amplifier

The FiiO Q1ii is a portable DAC/Amp. An M-Fi certified model, it has been created with iOS devices in mind, and has native DSD decoding. The Q1ii utilizes the professional AK4452 DAC chip, and supports up to 384kHz/32bit for PCM format, and native DSD up to DSD256. The Q1ii is also Hi-Res Audio C...

www.amazon.co.uk

Thank you I will check it out.

The reason why bluetooth/ldac offered you better sound quality is because Sony made the XM3 for wireless usage and has a DAC, AMP and DSP built into the headphones. When you use them wired they bypass all of that and sound a lot worse. Don't get a DAC for XM3

Thank you for the explanation, I am wondering if the Sony’s have the DAC, AMP, DSP built in, then would I be able to use apps on the iPhone like the Onkyo HF Player or Scylla to play the DSD files without another DAC ?

 

[Lyric9]

Thanks for the info! That explains why I sensed it this way. I was a bit doubting myself as I am not audiophile but what you say makes sense and explains why I felt that the wireless road gave me a superior experience.

If you want to go a more audiophile route go for something like a HD6xx or similar. I wouldn't go for a BT headset no matter what where quality counts,.

Thank you I will check it out.

Thank you for the explanation, I am wondering if the Sony’s have the DAC, AMP, DSP built in, then would I be able to use apps on the iPhone like the Onkyo HF Player or Scylla to play the DSD files without another DAC ?

No, I don't think xm3 or xm4 for that matter has DSD support, and even then (LDAC considered) the headphones aren't good enough quality to even showcase it (plus the fact that not everyone can tell the difference between CD quality and higher). I'd say that you shouldn't bother. Even with my Sennheiser HD800 I don't bother with anything higher than CD quality as the difference is negligible.
The DAC and amp in xm3 aren't high quality either but with the DSP that sony developed for the headphones through BT is the way that those exact headphones will play their best.

 

[secretk]

If you want to go a more audiophile route go for something like a HD6xx or similar. I wouldn't go for a BT headset no matter what where quality counts,.

Yeah, this is what I know as well. Bluetooth cannot give you the best audio quality no matter what. In general I bought them for the noise cancelling and for that they are doing good job. How is the clamping force with those headphones? I am asking because I have Senheiser that are rather heavy and well cause me headache - HD 280 Pro. The sound quality is not bad given they are monitoring headphones, but man I get headache when using them. The clamping force is brutal and they are rather heavy for me.

 

[Suckfest 9001]

iPhone only supports AAC for Bluetooth, and possibly SBC for some older products (which is even worse).

Your only option for high quality listening on iPhone is to get a lightning to USB (micro most of the time) cable and get a DAC like the FIIO Andes (not the exact same product because I think it got discontinued a while back) or a DAC that plugs directly into the lightning port but those are typically worse and more expensive.

With the lightning to USB cable, the DAC locks onto the digital signal coming through the cable and does its own conversion to analog.

 

[Lyric9]

Yeah, this is what I know as well. Bluetooth cannot give you the best audio quality no matter what. In general I bought them for the noise cancelling and for that they are doing good job. How is the clamping force with those headphones? I am asking because I have Senheiser that are rather heavy and well cause me headache - HD 280 Pro. The sound quality is not bad given they are monitoring headphones, but man I get headache when using them. The clamping force is brutal and they are rather heavy for me.

It always depends on the size of your head but HD6xx is pretty fine for most. they are tight out of the box but they will loosen up over time or you can (slightly) bend the metal band to loosen them up faster. HD280 pro are monitoring headphones so they are going to be very tight because they are meant to never slip off.
Keep in mind HD6xx are open and are only meant for home usage.

iPhone only supports AAC for Bluetooth, and possibly SBC for some older products (which is even worse).

Your only option for high quality listening on iPhone is to get a lightning to USB (micro most of the time) cable and get a DAC like the FIIO Andes (not the exact same product because I think it got discontinued a while back) or a DAC that plugs directly into the lightning port but those are typically worse and more expensive.

With the lightning to USB cable, the DAC locks onto the digital signal coming through the cable and does its own conversion to analog.

Honestly I think I'd go as far as to say I wouldn't bother with Fiio. They are fine, really but not much more than that. I'm personally fine with using the apple dongle for portable usage and then use something like my RME ADI 2 at home. I guess what I'm saying is that I recommend a cheaper portable option and a more proper at home solution

 

[Suckfest 9001]

It always depends on the size of your head but HD6xx is pretty fine for most. they are tight out of the box but they will loosen up over time or you can (slightly) bend the metal band to loosen them up faster. HD280 pro are monitoring headphones so they are going to be very tight because they are meant to never slip off.
Keep in mind HD6xx are open and are only meant for home usage.



Honestly I think I'd go as far as to say I wouldn't bother with Fiio. They are fine, really but not much more than that. I'm personally fine with using the apple dongle for portable usage and then use something like my RME ADI 2 at home. I guess what I'm saying is that I recommend a cheaper portable option and a more proper at home solution

We’ll agree to disagree then because Fiio is objectively fantastic

 

[Lyric9]

We’ll agree to disagree then because Fiio is objectively fantastic

I've got my own circle of head-fi friends and none of them have been particularly fond of fiio. There are certain amps or dacs (or both) that even though they measure perfectly will sound a bit dynamically compressed. I used to have an JDS Atom and it was a prime example of measuring objectively perfect but it sounded dynamically compressed. Their O2 DAC was the same way. Even my RME which also measures objectively fantastic lacks a bit in dynamics which is why I got a seperate amplifier for my HD800's.
Therefore i say Fiio is fine but not much more, it'll work out great for most people but not for everyone

 

[Suckfest 9001]

I've got my own circle of head-fi friends and none of them have been particularly fond of fiio. There are certain amps or dacs (or both) that even though they measure perfectly will sound a bit dynamically compressed. I used to have an JDS Atom and it was a prime example of measuring objectively perfect but it sounded dynamically compressed. Their O2 DAC was the same way. Even my RME which also measures objectively fantastic lacks a bit in dynamics which is why I got a seperate amplifier for my HD800's.
Therefore i say Fiio is fine but not much more, it'll work out great for most people but not for everyone

I make a very conscious effort to stay away from audiophiles lol… there’s a clear difference between wanting crisp, better audio than the status quo and… *gestures broadly at head-fi*

 

[Lyric9]

I can't stay away from them, I work in a Hi-Fi store lol

 

[snipr125]

I've got my own circle of head-fi friends and none of them have been particularly fond of fiio. There are certain amps or dacs (or both) that even though they measure perfectly will sound a bit dynamically compressed. I used to have an JDS Atom and it was a prime example of measuring objectively perfect but it sounded dynamically compressed. Their O2 DAC was the same way. Even my RME which also measures objectively fantastic lacks a bit in dynamics which is why I got a seperate amplifier for my HD800's.
Therefore i say Fiio is fine but not much more, it'll work out great for most people but not for everyone

The good thing about Fiio is that their products are very reasonably priced, and they include decent DAC chips from ESS Sabre and AK. For Junior level audiophiles like myself, they sound very good (sound stage, dynamic range, instrumental separation etc) and uplift the audio considerably from my Iphone and Ipad. Just my £35 K1 USB DAC with my Ipad sounds amazing.

I can understand why you would think Fiio is average though Lyric9, as you work in a Hifi store, you have used all the high end, expensive DACs!

 

[phrehdd]

Its a nice thought to engage DSD with iPhone but also a poor fit. Honestly, see alternatives. Bluetooth really is not a fit for DSD. Wired was and remains superior in general for music file play. I say this as someone who uses bluetooth daily. There are only a handful of high end bluetooth headphones out there that some might rank as bottom of the line "audiophile" capable. Investigate some wired options or if insistent, potentially some external "portable" devices that go to your phone and handle bluetooth instead of the phone as they may open up other codec options that the iPhone intentionally does not.

 

[phrehdd]

i have just read The manual of the XM4 as it states calls cannot be made via Bluetooth when the csble is connected which means I have got the wrong end of the stick 🙈, I was under the impression that wired connection was superior to Bluetooth and that only wired connection would give Hi Res quality. It turns out I was completely wrong.

Bluetooth is limited. Wired is full of options but is only as good as the devices attached. I don't know what to say about phone calls but you may want to read up on what wired can do for audio and the limitations of bluetooth. I used bluetooth daily and its agreeable. If I want hi Rez, I absolutely prefer an at home setup with moderate or more costs wired equipment. Btw, while hi Rez has the potential for "more" in sound, many people end up preferring audio that is at least slightly coloured (inherent balance that is not neutral and sterile). My home speakers are fractionally laid back and while attack is good they are never harsh. DACs, amps, headphones and speakers can all bias audio sound from high Rez files. Btw, you may find sites such as HDTracks as a good starting point from hi Rez files.