Dell 3007WFP-HC or 3008WFP?

[akadmon]

I'm planning to buy a 30" LCD for my Mac Pro in the near future, and I've set my heart on Dell 3008WFP. Unfortunately, the darn thing is $500 more than Dell's other 30" LCD, the 3007WFP-HC ($1699 vs $1199). That's a bit much to swallow.

I know the 3008WFP had in the past gone on sale for $1399, and at this price I'd snap it up instantly! However, with Apple 30" ACD being higher in price and lower on features and performance, it seems that there is little incentive for Dell to run sales on the 3008WFP on a regular basis, in which case I might wind up waiting many months for the price to drop, all the time missing out on having the extra screen real estate that I so want.

It seems to me that the 3007WFP-HC is not such a bad deal compared to the 3008WFP at its current price. I know I'm giving up some inputs (not a deal breaker for me, since I have no intention of hooking the LCD to anything other than my Mac Pro), but is there anything else that would make it worth paying $500 more for the 3008WFP now, or that would cause me to regret getting the 3007WFP-HC if the 3008WFP ever went on sale again?

 

[alphaod]

The difference is that the 3007 does not have a built-in processor while the 3008 does. Also the color gamut on the 3008 is higher.

1) The 3007 has a faster response time due to the lack of the post-processing, but you only get one dual-link DVI port (thought it does support HDCP).
2) The 3008 has a lot more ports and just about everything, but the response time is a bit slower.

 

[akadmon]

I'm not a commercial photographer, so I probably would not miss having more gamut. Christ, I think I might miss the gamut thingy altogether!

What does having the "processor" built into the LCD do for me? I have a fairly good video card in the MP (ATI 4870). I would think it has plenty of processing power to handle a 30" LCD just fine.

 

[alphaod]

What does having the "processor" built into the LCD do for me? I have a fairly good video card in the MP (ATI 4870). I would think it has plenty of processing power to handle a 30" LCD just fine.

It converts analog signals to digital for the monitor when you use the VGA, component, or S-Video on the 3008. Unfortunately despite not really doing anything to the digital inputs, it still slows things down.

Unless you need the extra ports, the two are essentially the same.

Which ever one you choose, I'd get a hardware color calibrator nonetheless.

If you're lucky you can get a 3007 for $600 from the outlet store; that's as cheap as a Apple 24" LED.

I'd also get the 3-4 year accidental. You never know, but it's definitely worth it if you need it once. Also increases resell value.

 

[akadmon]

How does the fact the the 3008 has a slower response time affect its real world performance compared with the 3007? More artifacts when watching full HD video; slower frame rates when playing games?

 

[alphaod]

How does the fact the the 3008 has a slower response time affect its real world performance compared with the 3007? More artifacts when watching full HD video; slower frame rates when playing games?

Oh no, mostly you won't notice it at all. It's really hard to tell. It's the difference between 8ms and 14ms on the 3007 and 3008, respectively

 

[akadmon]

If you're lucky you can get a 3007 for $600 from the outlet store; that's as cheap as a Apple 24" LED.

That's an unbelievable price! Not that I don't believe you

I'm weary of buying used stuff. Getting somebody else's reject scares me. It's kind like marrying a divorcee: there is a good chance this marriage too won't last

 

[alphaod]

I'm weary of buying used stuff. Getting somebody else's reject scares me. It's kind like marrying a divorcee: there is a good chance this marriage too won't last

Oh the outlet store sells refurbished and clearance items; in the 3007's case it's refurbished; I guess you could call it used, but it does come with full support essentially everything is new.

 

[nanofrog]

That's an unbelievable price! Not that I don't believe you

I'm weary of buying used stuff. Getting somebody else's reject scares me. It's kind like marrying a divorcee: there is a good chance this marriage too won't last

I use an NEC2490WUXi that I got as a refurbished unit. The savings were worth it, and the monitor works quite well. A couple of quirks with input switching at times (computer is still powered on), but it's not critical (I hooked up a DVD player to see how it would look).

Granted, it's not a Dell, but there's not as much risk as you might think. To help mitigate any potential issues, I picked up an extended warranty with it as well.

I would check out the pixel return policy though, just in case.

 

[akadmon]

I almost pulled the trigger on the 3007WFP-HC tonight, but then I read a couple of reviews that pointed out the fact that this panel is a lot dimmer than most (if not all) others 30" panels: 300 cd/m2 vs. 400 for 30" ACD and 370 for Dell 3008-WFP. My Dell 2407WFP is 450 cd/m2, so I can see how I might be disappointed with the 3007WP-HC's brightness

Looks like it's back to waiting for the 3008WFP to go on sale. Or perhaps I should go for a refurb ACD?

EDIT: It appears that the refurb ACD's use the older panel (is suggested by the 170 degree viewing able as opposed to 178 degrees for the current one). Bummer. I do so hope Dell has a sale on the 3008WFP next Monday (my BD)!

 

[SuperSpiker]

I almost pulled the trigger on the 3007WFP-HC tonight, but then I read a couple of reviews that pointed out the fact that this panel is a lot dimmer than most (if not all) others 30" panels: 300 cd/m2 vs. 400 for 30" ACD and 370 for Dell 3008-WFP. My Dell 2407WFP is 450 cd/m2, so I can see how I might be disappointed with the 3007WP-HC's brightness

I own and use the Dell 3007WFP-HC. It's connected to a Mac Pro running a (flashed) 4890. I am a photographer and color and brightness are a big deal to me.

I can assure you that the 3007 is a very bright monitor. In fact it's too bright. When I calibrate the monitor using the hardware calibrator (the sypder3 elite) I end up having to turn the brightness control (which is the ONLY control available on this monitor other than the on/off switch) all the way down. If I don't turn the brightness all the way down my prints do not match what I see on the monitor. The prints turn out too dark. This is due to the monitor being too bright when editing the photo, therefore all of the (color) adjustments are way off.

The point I am trying to drive home here is that the 3007 (and nearly all LCD's) are WAY too bright. If you are wanting accurate colors and not a sun burn I recommend you calibrate and tame the brightness (not necessarily in that order).

On the flip side, if you don't care about accurate color and you are a gamer, you will likely enjoy the punchy and vivid colors this monitor can produce. Although, I'd still recommend you calibrate this beast for best results.

You will also notice that the colors out of the box on the 3007 seem really saturated. This is not actually the case, as with all wide gamut monitors you are seeing the colors (more) like they were meant to be seen. The non-wide gamut monitors you are used to are only able to show 72% of the color gamut and the 3007 is capable of displaying 92%.

Hardware calibration is VERY IMPORTANT with this monitor. You will be very unhappy (if you care about accurate color) if you don't calibrate it. Some hardware calibration devices are unable to calibrate wide gamut monitors such as the 3007 so be sure to look into that before you buy. I use the Spyder3 elite with good results.

Having said all of this, the 3007 is a FANTASTIC monitor. I picked mine up as a refurb unit for $600 about a year ago. Even as a refurb Dell included a 3 year warranty. A great assurance that I have yet to need.

I love having the real estate, the native resolution is 2560x1600. This is enough resolution to display a 4 megapixel image on the screen. This is very nice for photography work... but it's problematic for everyday web browsing, viewing files in finder and reading text in general. This is because everything is very small and hard to see at the native res. If you are sitting more than 2 feet away from the monitor you will likely have a hard time reading text. I do A LOT of zooming (hold down the control and press the + key) to be able to better see things. The "No Squint" extension for Firefox is fantastic as it allows me to set all web pages in Firefox to a specific zoom level. I've set mine to 205%.

One other thing to keep in mind. To view the 3007WFP-HC monitor native resolution of 2560x1600, your computer must have a dual-link DVI-D compatible video card that supports this resolution. Dell includes a dual-link DVI-D cable in the box with the monitor but you need to ensure that your video card supports dual-link DVI-D and can support 2560x1600 resolution. If your card doesn't support these your resolution will suffer.

Overall the monitor is a great product, I wish I could afford another one

 

[akadmon]

Thanks for the in-depth review.

I dabble in photography, but I rarely print, so I probably will keep the brightness setting somewhere in the middle. As for text size, I have a Dell 2407WFP now, and I don't imagine the text on a 3007 will look much different, as long I'm sitting at the same distance from the monitor. I suppose I'll set the 30 incher about a half a foot back compared to the 24" (to reduce the need to move my head from side to side ), but I think I'll be OK. I just did this with my 24" and I'm still able to read the smallest text on this page just fine.

The 3007 is back up at $1399. I hate these stupid games Dell plays! And their customer support is atrocious. Yesterday I called to ask about a price guarantee (I don't think they have one, but just wanted to confirm), and I was bounced between India and the Philippines for 15 minutes! I finally gave up. Really, I know that when it comes to monitors Dell makes a good product (I own one), but with customer support like this I'd rather overpay Apple. I can get an 8% discount on the Apple ACD and get it tax free next door in NH. I'd have to pay a sales tax on a Dell (6.25%) and then deal with the frustration of shipping the monitor back if anything is not right. With Apple I can just bring it to the store, 15 minutes from my house.

 

[RaceTripper]

The 3008 is a great monitor. It does go on sale for $1399 on a fairly regular basis. For me the nice advantage is it supports displayport, making it very easy to connect to my uMBP (and avoid the expensive & flakey DL-DVI adapter Apple sells). It also has a hardware scaler, which is nice for connecting HD (1080p) and other non-native resolution sources. I also have a PS3 hooked up to it via HDMI. I've played through Uncharted 2 on it with no issues at all.

The one problem I've had is that it has a green cast when turned on and takes a 1/2 hour to stabilize to calibrated colors (I use a Spyder2Express), but Dell is replacing it with a new one (in production now) since I opened a support ticket within the 30-day return period.

Dell is making it easy to ship the old one back. I just drop it in the box they ship the replacement in. It includes a Fedex label, and I call Fedex to pick it up. That's what they told me anyway.

 

[akadmon]

The monitor will not be hooked up to anything other than my Mac Pro (and the Son of Mac Pro, after this big daddy retires ), so display port is not part of the equation for me. Nor do I care about it working with game consoles (I have my HDTV for that).

Unless the 3008WFP goes on sale tomorrow, I might be reading MR on a 30" ACD 24h from now. It's "only" $1655 with my EPP discount and it comes beautifully calibrated right out of the box, so no need to invest in a color calibrator like I would with a Dell. The only show stopper could be the cable length (need to be at least 4 feet long).

 

[RaceTripper]

The monitor will not be hooked up to anything other than my Mac Pro (and the Son of Mac Pro, after this big daddy retires ), so display port is not part of the equation for me. Nor do I care about it working with game consoles (I have my HDTV for that).

Unless the 3008WFP goes on sale tomorrow, I might be reading MR on a 30" ACD 24h from now. It's "only" $1655 with my EPP discount and it comes beautifully calibrated right out of the box, so no need to invest in a color calibrator like I would with a Dell. The only show stopper could be the cable length (need to be at least 4 feet long).

Well, it won't be calibrated out of the box, anymore than a Dell 3007 or 3008, or any other monitor for that matter. Your Mac will just select a default colorsync profile for the monitor, but that's just a compromise. Calibration depends on the input source, so your monitor can vary from computer to computer and input type to input type. I had a Apple 23" Cinema Display, and while it looked great out of the box, it got a lot better with calibration.

The Apple will be great monitor as long as you have dual link DVI output, and Apple is going to mini displayport with new models. That might be an issue with your so-called "Son of Mac Pro." Just something to consider.

I seriously considered the Apple, but in the end decided it was overpriced for what it is compared to newer displays. The Dell monitors -- BTW -- use S-IPS LCD panels for best possible color quality, just like the Apple monitor.

One other thing, if the Dell 3008 goes on sale, it will be on Tuesday or Wednesday (can't remember which day they start sales, but it's one of the two).

 

[lixuelai]

Only reason to get the ACD is for it to match with your Mac Pro. Currently it is the oldest 30" still being sold. If you can wait a bit to get the 3007WFP-HC I would as even that is newer than the ACD. You can also look into the HP LP3065 which uses the same panel as the 3007WFP-HC but has 3x DVI input which is very useful if you have a MBP as well.

 

[akadmon]

Tuesday shmoozeday! -- My birthday is on Monday and I like to celebrate early

As for Apple dropping support for DVI in a Mac Pro, ain't gonna happen any time soon. There are too many MP buyers that already own 30" ACDs (or other DVI only displays), and Apple will not abandon them. At the very least, Apple will have solved the performance issues with their DL-DVI to DP adapters by the time the Son of Mac Pro takes up residence under my desk. That said, should Dell come through by tomorrow morning and offer the 3008WFP for $1399, I'll resist my urge for instant gratification and buy from them, provided they can Delliver (go away, spellchecker!) the monitor in a reasonable time. The 3+ weeks I have seen for 3008 is a nonstarter.

 

[RaceTripper]

As for Apple dropping support for DVI in a Mac Pro, ain't gonna happen any time soon. There are too many MP buyers that already own 30" ACDs (or other DVI only displays), and Apple will not abandon them. At the very least, Apple will have solved the performance issues with their DL-DVI to DP adapters by the time the Son of Mac Pro takes up residence under my desk.

Why not? Apple has a history of abandonment. They abandoned MBP users with DVI out. Look at the 24" ACD. It only has a miniDP connector, so you can't use it with a DVI out. Ditto for the new 27" iMacs. When they decide to move on, they do it. I wouldn't count on Apple putting a whole lot into their DL-DVI adapter. I think it was created just to throw a bone out while they transmission to miniDP. They've been slow to address problems with it and after a nearly a year it's still a crap shoot for getting one working reliably. It's the main reason I went with the Dell. I have a miniDp->DP cable that works perfectly, and it cost me less than $5.

...should Dell come through by tomorrow morning and offer the 3008WFP for $1399, I'll resist my urge for instant gratification and buy from them, provided they can Delliver (go away, spellchecker!) the monitor in a reasonable time. The 3+ weeks I have seen for 3008 is a nonstarter.

Yeah, the Dell 3008 takes 3 weeks to get after ordering. That's the hard part.

But you should get the ACD 30" if you want it. It really is a fine monitor, but it is very overpriced IMHO, and you will have to pay even more to get 3 years warranty, which is stand on the Dell.

 

[nanofrog]

Why not? Apple has a history of abandonment. They abandoned MBP users with DVI out. Look at the 24" ACD. It only has a miniDP connector, so you can't use it with a DVI out. Ditto for the new 27" iMacs. When they decide to move on, they do it. I wouldn't count on Apple putting a whole lot into their DL-DVI adapter. I think it was created just to throw a bone out while they transmission to miniDP. They've been slow to address problems with it and after a nearly a year it's still a crap shoot for getting one working reliably. It's the main reason I went with the Dell. I have a miniDp->DP cable that works perfectly, and it cost me less than $5.

Apple is quick to abandon users. But in the case of MDP/DVI, it's not total, as there's an adapter. Albeit an expensive turkey at ~$100USD from Apple. I know 3rd party adapters have started to appear, but haven't checked the prices. Still, it's a "bone" as you say, just not very palatable.

PPC owners are out in the cold all together, and the '06 - '07 MP owners are soon to be, when the OS finally goes pure K64 (graphics upgrades are already limited, but not totally lost - yet).

 

[RaceTripper]

Apple is quick to abandon users. But in the case of MDP/DVI, it's not total, as there's an adapter. Albeit an expensive turkey at ~$100USD from Apple. I know 3rd party adapters have started to appear, but haven't checked the prices. Still, it's a "bone" as you say, just not very palatable.

PPC owners are out in the cold all together, and the '06 - '07 MP owners are soon to be, when the OS finally goes pure K64 (graphics upgrades are already limited, but not totally lost - yet).

I don't think there's an adapter that allows DVI MBP users to use the 24" ACD is there. I'm pretty sure there isn't for using a new 27" iMac as an external monitor. Abandoned!

 

[nanofrog]

I don't think there's an adapter that allows DVI MBP users to use the 24" ACD is there. I'm pretty sure there isn't for using a new 27" iMac as an external monitor. Abandoned!

Ah. I see where you're going: Genders are backwards.

In that case, Apple doesn't provide a solution. Not sure about a 3rd party, but if it's not many users needing it, they'll never provide it either.

 

[akadmon]

But you should get the ACD 30" if you want it. It really is a fine monitor, but it is very overpriced IMHO, and you will have to pay even more to get 3 years warranty, which is stand on the Dell.

Yes I know. But I've been already conditioned to this condition, so it's no longer such a shock

Bummer about the long wait on the 3008

Definitely looks like I'll be posting to this thread from a new ACD tomorrow. I've already won my wife over, who was under the impression that these things cost around $3000 When I told her over dinner that it's "only" $1655 (after gushingly complementing her on her turkey stuffing), she gave me a free pass! I was so ecstatic that I actually considered suggesting I get two I thought better of it, though, and kept my mouth shut (while nervously chewing on a piece of white meat). Don't want to push my luck too far

PPC owners are out in the cold all together, and the '06 - '07 MP owners are soon to be, when the OS finally goes pure K64 (graphics upgrades are already limited, but not totally lost - yet).

When SL came out in September, I bet <10% of the Macs in existence were PPC. So I reckon there will be at least one more OSX rev that will support my MP 1,1. And even after comes out with a version that it can no longer run (no sooner than 3 years from now), I doubt software developers will suddenly drop support for my machine. Majority of software today runs on OSX 10.4, and virtually all software runs on 10.5. So yeah, while I agree that my MP 1,1 will inevitably become obsolete, it will be long after I welcome the Son of Mac Pro into my house

 

[nanofrog]

...(after gushingly complementing her on her turkey stuffing), she gave me a free pass! I was so ecstatic that I actually considered suggesting I get two I thought better of it, though, and kept my mouth shut (while nervously chewing on a piece of white meat). Don't want to push my luck too far

Well played.

Must.... keep .... spouse.... happy. Otherwise they can make life a living hell.

There are still far more 32-bit Macs out there than 64-bit ones. When SL came out in September, I bet <10% of the Macs in existence were PPC. So I reckon there will be at least one more OSX rev that will support my MP 1,1. And even after comes out with a version that it can no longer run (no sooner than 3 years from now), I doubt software developers will suddenly drop support for my machine. Majority of software today runs on OSX 10.4, and virtually all software runs on 10.5. So yeah, while I agree that my MP 1,1 will inevitably become obsolete, it will be long after I welcome the Son of Mac Pro into my house

Keep in mind, I'm used to the enterprise market, where systems are supported for 5 years minimum (from date of release). These customers want continuity, as they want to be able to buy mulitple systems, all exactly the same for IT management purposes. But not purchase them all at the same time (space out the funds spent to different budget periods).

Apple hasn't been doing this, and seems to keep it ~3 years or so. That's a raw deal, and especially so with the '06 - '07 systems given the hinderance is the crappy EFI32 firmware. A simple update to EFI64 would solve it, but they're not going to do it. Unfortunately, this is likely to kill OS updates sooner rather than later (i.e. 10.7 would seem to be targeted at K64 only), so it's likely SL is the last OS that will work in those systems.

A rather raw deal IMO, as it reduces the system's value to a customer. They're workstations afterall, not consumer junk tops.

 

[RaceTripper]

Well played.

Must.... keep .... spouse.... happy. Otherwise they can make life a living hell. ...

Hah, I just moved one of our PS3s from the bedroom (where it's used as a BRD player) to my office, where I can game with it on my Dell 3008. My wife just suggested on her own we go in 50/50 on a new Blu-ray player for the bedroom, so I can just keep the PS3 in the office. I just ordered the Netflix enabled Sony BDP-N460.

 

[akadmon]

OK, if i can't run 10.7 on my current MP, I'll buy you a case Sam Adams Octoberfest (seeing that both are likely to come on the market at around the same time of year). Deal? Christ, I'll even drive to your house to deliver it, even if you live in Nome! Now if you live in Honolulu, that might be another thing I might have to switch to a sturdy kayak in Santa Barbara, big enough for both of us (me and the case of Sam Adams, that is)