What exactly is the difference between the N3B and N3E chips, and which is the 'better' chip ? I'm looking at getting either a Mac Mini or Studio but having read through a few threads I'm not clear as to whether that would be a good idea at this time, as I'm hearing the chips may not be as good as previously thought. Nor am I clear on which of the two will be used in the Mini/Studios. Max Tech mentioned that the M3 may prove to be disappointing.
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Difference between N3B and N3E ?
- Thread starter ProgRocker
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As far as “which chip is better” - that’s kind of a nebulous question. The fab process doesn’t really factor into the “quality” of the chip per se; the chip does what it does and sometimes features (power consumption mostly) are in part due to the fab process chosen. But choosing a chip based on the fab process is like choosing a car based on the metallurgy of the driveshaft. Could it make a difference? Sure, in some crazy edge case… but 99.999% of the time, it doesn’t.
No Apple processors, today, are based on any 3nm fab. So it’s all speculation.
As far as the difference between N3B and N3E there are countless articles about that; just google it
No Apple processors, today, are based on any 3nm fab. So it’s all speculation.
As far as the difference between N3B and N3E there are countless articles about that; just google it
Is real simple
M3/M3 Pro -= Mini
M3 Max/Ultra = Studio
Can your performance requirements be met by an M3/M3 Pro - If YES - Buy a Mini, If NO, Buy a Studio.
The only real overlap you get is if you need to buy a fully maxed out Mini with the upgraded SoC and RAM then basically at the price of the Entry Studio.
The Process used for each SoC is irrelevant if doesn't provide enough grunt.
M3 may appear disappointing in that some people seem to think M3 is going to be some sort of Miracle Cure and add
Extreme Version of Chip ie the Quad Max version
Support for External GPU
Expandle RAM Slots
BIG Performance Gain
It is very rare now that you will get BIG performance from one generation to the next.
So people that bought M1 series systems didn' suddenly drop them and buy M2, same will be here. M2 owners and even M1 owners unlikely to be buying.
M4 at earliest I would say for M1 buyers
M3 is going to be for people that not moved over to Apple Silicon yet. If already on Apple Silicon then not much incentive to upgrade.
Same as how Intel year on year improvements not massive but give it a 3 to 4 years and worthwhile.
I've been reading forums/articles such as this below. It seems that the N3E may be the better chip, though how much better I'm not sure. Also, would Apple start releasing units with the N3B, then switch over to the N3E ? And if so would it be worth waiting to see the performance differences ? Just wondering what all this means... if anything. Thanks.....
Apple won't do the M3 Pro for instance on one process then change to another process for the M3 Pro.
You may find that use one of the for the M3, M3 Pro and then the Max and Ultra use the later Process.
You cannot normally just drop the same design into a new Fab process
N3E and N3B are Fab Process NOT Chips. You won't get some M3 Pro on N3E and some on N3B
From the thread. Thanks to deconstruct60
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N3E isn't design rule compatible with N3B. So if have to 'respin' the whole layout it is far more time and cost efficient just to use the N3B that had working.
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So if they release M3 on N3B they are not then going to respin M3 on N3E, however you may find M3 Pro launches on N3E
You pick your computer Mini vs Studio based on your performance requirements not the Fab Process it is made on.
If the Mini with either the base M3 or M3 Pro doesn't meet your performance requirements then it doesn't matter which Fab Process is made on and if the process is more efficient. You end up buying the Studio as that is what comes with a Max or Ultra.
As that thread says there is no path from N3B to N3E so would have to redesign to make the product designed for N3B be able to be made with N3E
However in reality whichever process is used for the M3, M3 Pro, M3 Max/Ultra isn't relevant when choosing to buy a computer.
If the M3 meets your performance needs then why would you be buying an M3 Max based computer just because the M3 Max has a newer Fab Process.
Your are SERIOUSLY OVERTHINKING a purchase decision, that boils down to
Does a mini meet my performance needs Yes/No If Yes buy a Mini, If No buy a Studio.
You may find that use one of the for the M3, M3 Pro and then the Max and Ultra use the later Process.
You cannot normally just drop the same design into a new Fab process
N3E and N3B are Fab Process NOT Chips. You won't get some M3 Pro on N3E and some on N3B
From the thread. Thanks to deconstruct60
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
N3E isn't design rule compatible with N3B. So if have to 'respin' the whole layout it is far more time and cost efficient just to use the N3B that had working.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So if they release M3 on N3B they are not then going to respin M3 on N3E, however you may find M3 Pro launches on N3E
You pick your computer Mini vs Studio based on your performance requirements not the Fab Process it is made on.
If the Mini with either the base M3 or M3 Pro doesn't meet your performance requirements then it doesn't matter which Fab Process is made on and if the process is more efficient. You end up buying the Studio as that is what comes with a Max or Ultra.
As that thread says there is no path from N3B to N3E so would have to redesign to make the product designed for N3B be able to be made with N3E
However in reality whichever process is used for the M3, M3 Pro, M3 Max/Ultra isn't relevant when choosing to buy a computer.
If the M3 meets your performance needs then why would you be buying an M3 Max based computer just because the M3 Max has a newer Fab Process.
Your are SERIOUSLY OVERTHINKING a purchase decision, that boils down to
Does a mini meet my performance needs Yes/No If Yes buy a Mini, If No buy a Studio.
I don't think N3B or N3E will be disappointing, especially for notebooks. 30% less power for an M3 MBA will make it an all-day machine. And think about what that means for cooling the Minis and Studios - even more silent.
This chart is a little dated:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/1883...n-schedule-n3p-n3x-deliver-five-percent-gains
This chart is a little dated:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/1883...n-schedule-n3p-n3x-deliver-five-percent-gains
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I wonder if M3 will be built using the N3B process and the M3 Pro and M3 Max (and M3 Ultra) using the N3E process… but at this point it’s pure speculation.
And yeah, according to that chart from Anandtech, the difference between those nodes won’t be too big, maybe the N3E can offer a bit more performance at the same power consumption.
If anyone knows other sources (Anandtech is not even the shadow of what it once was with Anand), please share!
And yeah, according to that chart from Anandtech, the difference between those nodes won’t be too big, maybe the N3E can offer a bit more performance at the same power consumption.
If anyone knows other sources (Anandtech is not even the shadow of what it once was with Anand), please share!
I do not think there is an N3B process. There is N3 and N3P so perhaps you are referring to one of these? N3P is a future process so details are very speculative.
Here is a good summary:
3 nm process - Wikipedia
What Wikipedia calls N3 is what we’re calling N3B, then there’s N3E (an enhanced version) and in the future, the N3P.I do not think there is an N3B process. There is N3 and N3P so perhaps you are referring to one of these? N3P is a future process so details are very speculative.
Here is a good summary:
3 nm process - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
From that source: “An enhanced 3 nm chip process called N3E may start production in 2023”.
However, that node has been delayed to 2024 so for the first chips using 3nm, such as the A17, Apple can only use the N3 node (AKA N3B) which production is mainly for Apple.
Not sure where all this talk about N3B comes from. TSMC does not appear use that terminology in in their own roadmap in 2022:
or an update on progress in 2023:
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I’m not sure either. I’m just pointing out that whenever you read N3B on MacRumors, AnandTech, or any other tech blog/forum, just know it’s a way to call the N3 node that is being used almost exclusively by Apple.