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Dis-Harmony Petition

Stupidity

Number one, Online petitions do NOTHING

Number two Apple is doing EXACTLY the same thing Microsoft has done, creating a proprietary format and disallowing anyone else into there precious market share. If Apple had not been so arrogant they could have licensed the tech out instead of trying to keep it under wraps, if you support the stance of banning real's reverse engineering then you may as well go over to pc's and enjoy the same attitude from Microsoft, get off your high horse about your exclusive "club" and get over it...
 
enclave said:
Number one, Online petitions do NOTHING

Number two Apple is doing EXACTLY the same thing Microsoft has done, creating a proprietary format and disallowing anyone else into there precious market share. If Apple had not been so arrogant they could have licensed the tech out instead of trying to keep it under wraps, if you support the stance of banning real's reverse engineering then you may as well go over to pc's and enjoy the same attitude from Microsoft, get off your high horse about your exclusive "club" and get over it...
Click to expand...

Apple has shown willingness to license their technology, as demonstrated with the HP deal. Saying Apple should be thankful for Reals' hacker attempts is to say that Apple should let other companies freeload. All Real is trying to do is to lock consumers into their own proprietary format, instead of Apple's.

Saying that Apple is doing EXACTLy the same thing as Microsoft is a bit weak. Microsoft is a monopolist, and has been convicted of illegally abusing their monopoly positions. With the iPod and iTunes, Apple is a market leader, but not a monopolist — thus anyone who describes their licensing decisions as “antitrust” would be talking out of their ass. :D
 
enclave said:
Number one, Online petitions do NOTHING
Click to expand...

You're quite right, but you are forgetting one thing: You can get a good feeling from signing, even though you know that the chance it will actually acheive something is utterly small...

enclave said:
Number two Apple is doing EXACTLY the same thing Microsoft has done, creating a proprietary format and disallowing anyone else into there precious market share. If Apple had not been so arrogant they could have licensed the tech out instead of trying to keep it under wraps, if you support the stance of banning real's reverse engineering then you may as well go over to pc's and enjoy the same attitude from Microsoft, get off your high horse about your exclusive "club" and get over it...
Click to expand...

That's is not true. Beside the HP deal munkle mentioned Apple also licensed its format to Motorola, which will use it in music playing smartphones. You cannot blame Apple for wanting a bit of control as to who gets a licence, can you? Real has never had any desent products, and I'm glad Apple turned down their initial threats...
 
enclave said:
Number one, Online petitions do NOTHING

Number two Apple is doing EXACTLY the same thing Microsoft has done, creating a proprietary format and disallowing anyone else into there precious market share. If Apple had not been so arrogant they could have licensed the tech out instead of trying to keep it under wraps, if you support the stance of banning real's reverse engineering then you may as well go over to pc's and enjoy the same attitude from Microsoft, get off your high horse about your exclusive "club" and get over it...
Click to expand...

-enclave

Not even close. You need to do a little more research.

This is a good start: http://daringfireball.net/2004/08/parlay
Or maybe: http://www.apple-x.net/modules.php?...=article&sid=1054&mode=thread&order=1&thold=0

The Macweb may be biased toward Macs, but since most Mac users us PC's as well (the inverse is not true), the articles tend to be better informed.
 
patrick0brien said:
-enclave

Not even close. You need to do a little more research.

This is a good start: http://daringfireball.net/2004/08/parlay
Or maybe: http://www.apple-x.net/modules.php?...=article&sid=1054&mode=thread&order=1&thold=0

The Macweb may be biased toward Macs, but since most Mac users us PC's as well (the inverse is not true), the articles tend to be better informed.
Click to expand...


BS,

Apple want's to control the music downloading business, the fact they want money like every other company doesnt bother me it's the fact they refuse to allow anyone into there little club, open standards are good for the industry and I applaud Apple on there support for a lot of these standards but kicking up a fuss over Real reverse engineering there tech is just stupid.

It's just DRM for christ sake.....

"Saying that Apple is doing EXACTLy the same thing as Microsoft is a bit weak. Microsoft is a monopolist, and has been convicted of illegally abusing their monopoly positions. With the iPod and iTunes, Apple is a market leader, but not a monopolist — thus anyone who describes their licensing decisions as “antitrust” would be talking out of their ass"

BS that's how Microsoft started as "a market leader" your blinded by the fact your a fanboy.

And licensing there DRM for a damn phone is totally useless, Apple knows no one can put many songs onto a phone so it poses no threat to the precious Ipod.


Here's an idea, let everyone create drm files and MORE ipods will be sold, it's a win win situation.... I don't want to upset anyone over this but seriously competition is GOOD



btw I'm a PC user who so happens to use a mac for editing movies.
 
First problem - there IS NO OPEN DRM STANDARD. Sad, but true - until this changes, all the issues surrounding DRM, including reverse-engineering it, will continue. Apple's FairPlay isn't any more open than the others - but that doesn't necessarily mean good news for Real; in fact, all Real is doing, IMO, is complicating matters further. I term this sort of competition "bad competition", and I want to see it go because it's bad for the industry as a whole - confused consumers will not help an industry profit.

Secondly, Apple is NOT a monopoly, but that doesn't automatically make Apple better than Microsoft. To be quite honest, I'm not sure why Apple refuses to make FairPlay more widely available. If more devices were FairPlay-enabled, then the iTMS would sell more songs, and more buyers would be attracted to the iPod. The lost sales to third-party players that this measure would cause would be more than offset by the additional revenue generated with the iTMS.

Finally, it's time to call the grammar police (emphasis mine):
enclave said:
BS,

Apple wants to control the music downloading business; the fact they want money like every other company doesn't bother me; it's the fact they refuse to allow anyone into their little club. Open standards are good for the industry, and I applaud Apple on their support for a lot of these standards but kicking up a fuss over Real reverse engineering their tech is just stupid.

It's just DRM for christ sake.....

"Saying that Apple is doing EXACTLy the same thing as Microsoft is a bit weak. Microsoft is a monopolist, and has been convicted of illegally abusing their monopoly positions. With the iPod and iTunes, Apple is a market leader, but not a monopolist — thus anyone who describes their licensing decisions as “antitrust” would be talking out of their ass"

BS - that's how Microsoft started as "a market leader" you're blinded by the fact that you're a fanboy.

And licensing their DRM for a damn phone is totally useless - Apple knows no one can put many songs onto a phone, so it poses no threat to the precious iPod.


Here's an idea, let everyone create DRM files and MORE iPods will be sold, it's a win win situation.... I don't want to upset anyone over this but seriously competition is GOOD



btw I'm a PC user who so happens to use a mac for editing movies.
Click to expand...
 
-enclave

Please open your mind a little, you're not listening very well. Your treading dangerously close to trolling.

BS that's how Microsoft started as "a market leader" your blinded by the fact your a fanboy.
Click to expand...

And thank you for illustrating my point. You have no idea who I am, or my skills. You've based your opinion of me on very tenuous information and zero fact.

You are entitled to your opinion, but try to base it more accurately.

Please do your research before yelling.
 
patrick0brien said:
-enclave

Please open your mind a little, you're not listening very well. Your treading dangerously close to trolling.



And thank you for illustrating my point. You have no idea who I am, or my skills. You've based your opinion of me on very tenuous information and zero fact.

You are entitled to your opinion, but try to base it more accurately.

Please do your research before yelling.
Click to expand...

I have an open mind, you seem to cuddle close to your mac and close your eyes. Troll indeed....

Perhaps if you stepped outside your comfort zone regarding Apple you would see that they have faults, until then enjoy the darkness your blindess causes.
 
DavidLeblond said:
So do any media players other than Real's play .rm files? How is that not proprietary?
Click to expand...


There are other players that can play .rm files.

Also, enclave is right. Period.
 
enclave said:
I have an open mind, you seem to cuddle close to your mac and close your eyes. Troll indeed....

Perhaps if you stepped outside your comfort zone regarding Apple you would see that they have faults, until then enjoy the darkness your blindess causes.
Click to expand...

-enclave

Research my profile.
 
He is kind of right, I can name several things that we x86 PC users have that you guys don't have. Even though macs are supposed to be better. It's only because In the PC market we have open compitition.
 
enclave said:
BS,

Apple want's to control the music downloading business, the fact they want money like every other company doesnt bother me it's the fact they refuse to allow anyone into there little club, open standards are good for the industry and I applaud Apple on there support for a lot of these standards but kicking up a fuss over Real reverse engineering there tech is just stupid.

It's just DRM for christ sake.....

QUOTE]

Harmony is not going to help sell more iPods. Behind all the pro choice talk Harmony is simply an attempt to sell more songs from Real to iPod users. There's nothing wrong with this of course, it's just common sense for Real to want to do this but recognise that Real are merely trying to lock users into their own proprietary format instead of Apples.

And yes you are right, it is just DRM but that's the whole point. What is at stake here is DRM music. The download music industry is in very early stages and is likely to become a huge industry in the future. At the moment Apple are poised to become the market leader and industry standard. There's a lot more at stake than just what songs will play on the iPod.

I would prefer it if there was no DRM at all but that is not going to happen but you are missing the bigger picture. There's a battle going on for what will become the industry standard for DRM and it will become really interesting when Microsoft jumps into the furore.

And yes Apple wants to be a dominant player in the music industry. That is why there are being careful with their approach and selecting who they want to license their technology too. Real is in the same battle. By 'kicking up a fuss' over Real hacking their technology is to prevent Real from riding on Apple's coat tails.
Click to expand...
 
enclave said:
BS,

BS that's how Microsoft started as "a market leader" your blinded by the fact your a fanboy.
Click to expand...

There's no need to start caling names. And your logic is very flawed - there is a very large step from being a market leader to abusing your monopolistic position. Being one does not lead to the other.
 
it's just like .doc

there is really no difference between real "reverse engineering" the drm and apple making textedit so it can read .doc files from microsoft word. somebody looked at the contents of a word file and figured out a way to open that file in something other than word. think about it........
 
Thom_Edwards said:
there is really no difference between real "reverse engineering" the drm and apple making textedit so it can read .doc files from microsoft word. somebody looked at the contents of a word file and figured out a way to open that file in something other than word. think about it........
Click to expand...
You're right - I thought Apple didn't do the reverse-engineering themselves, but based their implementation on the work of the open-source office suite developers. In the end, though, who did the reverse-engineering makes no difference - the end result is the same. Therefore, I conclude that Steve-o is making a bigger deal of the Real/DRM issue than he should be.
 
munkle said:
market leader to abusing your monopolistic position. Being one does not lead to the other.
Click to expand...


Absolute power corrupts.....its a historical FACT and Microsoft is about as corrupt as a hard drive that has been thrown into a 10,000* furnace.
 
Thom_Edwards said:
there is really no difference between real "reverse engineering" the drm and apple making textedit so it can read .doc files from microsoft word. somebody looked at the contents of a word file and figured out a way to open that file in something other than word. think about it........
Click to expand...

-Thom_Edwards

This is a very good point. Technically it is the same. Then it is up to the arrangements of Intellectual Property law - is the .doc format trademarked? Copyrighted? Patented? My guess is yes (in some form), then it is up to MS to enforce the IP on it.

Apple is notorious for being very agressive with IP issues, and yes, Fairplay is Trademarked, and likely Copyrighted.

But on further thing, just because a company or individual has complete rights to an IP, doesn't mean they will enforce it. Classic example: Crunch zones for automobiles. The it is patented by Mercedes Benz (DiamlerChrysler), but they have never enforced it - and rumor has it, never will.
 
Thom_Edwards said:
there is really no difference between real "reverse engineering" the drm and apple making textedit so it can read .doc files from microsoft word. somebody looked at the contents of a word file and figured out a way to open that file in something other than word. think about it........
Click to expand...

Interesting...but is .doc a format that Microsoft seeks to license? For example MP3 is a proprietary format and Apple must pay royalties to encode and decode MP3 files. Apple doesn't try to reverse engineer the MP3 format. Surely there is a difference between reading a format, which doesn't appear to be actively protected, and 'hacking' a format to forego licensing restrictions. But I agree it is a thin line.
 
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