Do you edit video ?? A few questions., ... and a few answers already from PC users!

[igmolinav]

Do you edit video ?? A few questions., ... and a few answers already from PC users !!!


Hi,

I sent an e-mail to several friends, who resent it to other friends ....

Hi,

If you are working editing video, or if you do it for your own, I would like to ask a few questions.

What kind of computer and programs are you using to edit ??

Which would be the minimum recommended characteristics, (processor, RAM), for a computer to have and what can it cost ??

If you have (or haven't) been editing for quite a bit of time, is there a specific amount of time that you expect your computer to last, (a computer editing video may go down faster than a computer that just surfs the web) ??

Are there places in the city where one could rent a computer to edit, or it is not worth it ??

Thank you in advance, kind regards,

Then I got several answers to my e-mail, the following are two of them:

All comes down to what exactly you want to edit and what you want as an end product.

People would recommend commercial programs like Sony Vegas, Coral video studio, Cinema Craft Encoder, Scenarist and all this other junk. they are all pure ripoffs and you can almost ALWAYS find FREE open source alternatives : )

Recommended config for a good grid to encode on would be at least a quad core cpu (stock Q6600 is cheap and gets the job done, i7 quadcore would be a beast) as you can multi-thread encodes on these processors. 4 GB of ram has to be a minimum these days and 1 GB of video memory ( graphic card/ video memory ) would be a life saver if you intend to encode TrueHD/HD stuff as you can frame serve using your graphic card and your encodes will be much faster that way. One thing which most people forget/ignore is a good cooling system for your pc/laptop, its not the amount of encoding you do on a computer which kills it, its the heat produced by it, so don't forget to invest in a good cooling fan system.

I've been using Avisynth for almost 8 years now and there hasn't been a single day where it hasn't gotten the job done, indeed it may be a bit difficult to understand in the start but the best place to learn would be The Doom9 forums, there is an infinite amount of free GUI's with Avisynth which can encode almost in any format you need to.

Any computer can encode, only difference will be the encoding speed. I've never bought a stock pc in my life and building a good one may cost you almost 600 euros but it will last you for a long time to come, been encoding for 6+ years on my laptop and its still running ; )

and then I got this one,

Totally agree with free, open-source for software video editing. There is everything you need. A basic PC from today is anyway far better than the beast of three years ago. 600€ as budget for a pc is a must, then 0€ for software, then are plenty of linux distro all-ready-to-use-no-need-to-mess-around available, if you need advice, just ask!

Then, I sent the following message:

Some people use these computers to edit:

http://store.apple.com/de/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro?mco=MTM3NjU5MzU

They also use a program called Final Cut Express 4
that costs circa 200€

Thank you in advance, very kind regards,

I got these respones:

The first one,

Would you buy a ferrari as a first car?
i7 quadcore is powerful, sure, but for a fraction of the cost of it, you got a computer that a amateur could not afford three years ago. hd realtime encoding is fine, sure, but the power/technique alone has never been enough to be a good artist. so, i suggest the cheapest alternative, enough for learning, after some time you ll know exactly what you need to achieve this or that: get a, low-end decent machine with like a dual-core / 4Go RAM, and a decent (512MB are cheap now) video card, run it with free software and get your hands on. Enough to have some fun for a long time. Along with a 24" screen, it will anyway be more powerful that a video studio racing beast from 3 years ago!

600€ budget including screen seems for me quite enough...
http://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/OffersOfProduct/2174310_-speed-4555-csl-computer.html
This + a cheap 22 or 24" LCD screen is just perfect, but you can also afford a dual core and tighten your budget...

The second one,

Hi,

I would never buy an apple macbook pro as a student, well because its just too fancy and expensive for me.

You could build a beast computer for half the price of an apple laptop. If you are willing to invest a 1000 odd euros, I'll build you a top of a range computer which will last you a long time, and no, I don't want any money for building it

I just like doing this stuff, specially stuff like video encoding, why not help someone out.

Thing is with a custom build computer you can almost ALWAYS change and adapt the thing with respect your needs and fix it for cheap as well if something goes wrong,laptops and branded computers? Hell no, expensive stuff.

I don't know why you need a laptop for video encoding ( what sort of video encoding do you intend to do in the first place? ), but getting even an EXTREMELY good laptop and encoding video or any intensive heat producing activities will just simply decrease tha laptops lifetime, no matter how good the cooling system may be. Laptops are not designed to encode video, they are there for portability

If you want to buy parts, I could recommend you good places to buy from. Let me know if you are interested in building and then we could probably meet up and talk in detail. If you intend to buy a laptop, here are i7's out there which would get the job done for like 1200 euros, cheaper if you are a student.

Cheers !!!

and another one who recommended some additional software and talked a bit about what others use:

Hi,

you were asking for a video editing system. Well, I am not a professional but I have seen professionals at work. So I have seen products like Final Cut Pro or Avid, as a spectator. On my old 6y old laptop - Centrino 1.6GHz, 2GB RAM - I happily use Sony Vegas Movie Studio, as far as I can tell a very capable and resource-friendly program. It is similar to its big brother, Sony Vegas (sans "Movie Studio"), which is used in commercial studio environments.

For editing alone you don't need much CPU power. Only when finally rendering the movie. But then you can still use a different machine, or let it be done over-night.

Just my thoughts.

Any thoughts you may have, I'll be more than happy to read them : ) !!!

Very kind regards,

igmolinav.

 

[-DH]

I guess I'm missing the point of your post. What does it matter what someone used to edit? Or what they use to shoot? Everything a person uses to produce video are merely tools. People tend to use what works for them for the job they're doing.

People produce video for all sorts of reasons; some just for family, some are hobbyists and others do it for a living. But no matter what the reason, they'll use the tools that can help them get the job done.

And after all editing isn't about which tools were used ... it's about crafting the story.

-DH

 

[spinnerlys]

Are you asking us, what computer to get to get started with editing digital footage?

I edited on a G4 iBook with Avid Free DV for quite some time, nowadays I use Avid Media Composer with a variety of Macs and none of them has a quad core CPU, except the Mac Pros and HP workstations, it's just that Avid MC does not take advantage of those in the versions I have to use on them.

Anyway, could you be more specific what you want, as those quotes don't help to get whatever point or quest you have across the cable.

And I agree with -DH, it's not about the tools used, but about building up to something worthwhile.
Though I prefer my tool to be Avid, others do it with Final Cut, others use iMovie, others prefer Premiere Pro, others take Vegas, and so on.

 

[chrono1081]

Everything a person uses to produce video are merely tools. People tend to use what works for them for the job they're doing.

+1

I have people who don't do hobbyist game development criticize my setup all the time which is funny since I get results...they dont...lol

Use what works best for you. For me, I prefer macs to windows system and I really like the software. That being said I don't video edit but I do 3D animation, 3D modeling, programming, photo editing and digital painting.

 

[martinX]

I have people who don't do hobbyist game development criticize my setup all the time which is funny since I get results...they dont...lol

That's what I love about the professional sites - the answers are coming from people who do this for a living, not keyboard warriors.

I edit "corporate videos" in the DV format using a 27" C2D iMac with 4GB RAM and a 256MB video card using primarily FCP6. I send out MP4s for the intranet/internet, WMVs for embedding in PPTs and DVDs made with iDVD. Motion is showing that my computer needs updating. I'd like a Sony NX5E, a 27" iMac with the 5870 video card, 256 GB SSD and 2 TB internal HD, a 27" monitor, a 40" plasma, M-Audio AV40 audio monitors, a new set of lights...

I started with iMovie 1, jot a job using iMovie 6 and they continue to pay me for using FCP.

Why do some of the replies you got only refer to video encoding, not editing? That "Avisynth" answer is a hoot...

 

[spinnerlys]

Why do some of the replies you got only refer to video encoding, not editing? That "Avisynth" answer is a hoot...

That's what I wondered too, it seems most of the time is spent with transcoding processes these days. Due to the digital, tapeless formats that's kind of true, but even one full XDCam Disc with SD footage of 75 minutes takes less than an hour to import and transcode on a normal computer, all the cores aren't even used. Maybe it's today's fashion to spend more time rendering and encoding and all that stuff instead of the actual editing, for which even a G4 with SD footage and a G5 with HD footage would suffice.

 

[martinX]

That's what I wondered too, it seems most of the time is spent with transcoding processes these days.

Personally I think he was getting answers from people who spend their days ripping DVDs, trimming a bit here and there and think they are "editing".

Maybe it's today's fashion to spend more time rendering and encoding and all that stuff instead of the actual editing, for which even a G4 with SD footage and a G5 with HD footage would suffice.

If MPEG4 is your goal, you could simply use an Elgato H.264 encoding stick or a Matrox box.

 

[arjen92]

The last guy you quoted is the one I agree the most with.

First of, as other already have said, the software is just a tool. It's about story how interesting it is.

I once made a short movie using iMovie. I really thought long about the story and such. And honestly, I think it's still one of the best videos I did. Even though I use Final Cut Pro now. The real difference for me is the freedom and the level you can go into. iMovie (05) crashed on me whenever I made a video longer than 10 minutes. Now I've just finished a DVD with 3 hours of material. FCP never crashed.

That's my next argument. Although there are free editors, they can't tip to expensive editing suites. I can't imagine that something which is free has the same amount and costs spent into a product as a paid editor.

I don't know whether that editor is on linux, but linux is really a whole other OS you need to learn, and it isn't easier than windows (I'm not saying it's difficult but with driver support and such you need to put some extra effort into maintaining your linux pc). So I can't imagine it's very stable, or can handle a lot of material very well. And if it's true that it's better, why do production studios still use paid NLE's (non-linear editing software) instead of free ones. Obviously because investing into the software has way more benefit than using a free editor.

The other thing the last quoted person mentioned is that you only need the processor for converting. This happens when you export (and maybe with importing). When you edit the video card is more important. Because the video card calculates live what you're editing. After you're done with the edits you export it. Then the processor kicks in and start converting. As I said, I just finished editing a long DVD. Editing was a breeze, because I used a codec that isn't very compressed, so easy on the video card. When I was finished I sent it to compressor to convert the HD video to MPEG-2 for DVD. I went to sleep and the next morning it's done converting. So extra power can be usefull (it will convert it faster) but when you can do this over night, why do need more speed?

The last thing I want to mention, what no one else did, is that it's really recommended to get a second hard drive. Else your hard drive isn't fast enough to provide the date for your OS, the software you edit with, and the material you're editing. By having a second hard drive and placing the footage on the second hard drive, the work load on each hard drive is lowered. Making editing faster, and wear on your hard drive less.

 

[igmolinav]

Hi,

Thank you to all of you for your messages : ) !!!

And after all editing isn't about which tools were used ... it's about crafting the story.

I totally agree : ) !!!

Are you asking us, what computer to get to get started with editing digital footage?

I edited on a G4 iBook with Avid Free DV for quite some time, ....

Anyway, could you be more specific what you want, as those quotes don't help to get whatever point or quest you have across the cable.

And I agree with -DH, it's not about the tools used, but about building up to something worthwhile.

I have a 1.33 GHz ibook G4 with 512 Mb of RAM.

I would like to do simple documentations with a dSLR. Short segments of up to ten minutes, (perhaps longer). Then, I would "tape" them together. I study sociology, and it would be very helpful and interesting for me to do that.

The thing is, that I have to compute the costs of producing the documentations, (camera+lens, computer+software) and it is a "thick investment" for me. (I am trying to see if I can get borrowed some of the things needed for the productions).

Use what works best for you. For me, I prefer macs to windows system and I really like the software.

I like working with Macs too. If I were to need a new computer, how many years would this investment last or be useful for??

I edit "corporate videos" in the DV format using a 27" C2D iMac with 4GB RAM and a 256MB video card using primarily FCP6. I send out MP4s for the intranet/internet, WMVs for embedding in PPTs and DVDs made with iDVD. ....

I started with iMovie 1, jot a job using iMovie 6 and they continue to pay me for using FCP.

I will not be doing "corporate videos" as you mention, but these videos I do will need to have a good presentation.

Do you all think that my ibook G4 with more RAM memory, (up to 1.5 Gb), and iMovie is a good match to start working ??

That's what I wondered too, it seems most of the time is spent with transcoding processes these days. .......
..... and transcode on a normal computer, all the cores aren't even used. Maybe it's today's fashion to spend more time rendering and encoding and all that stuff instead of the actual editing, for which even a G4 with SD footage and a G5 with HD footage would suffice.

As you can see, I am very new to this topic, and many words are foreign to me. These words relate to processes. Should I be aware of these processes now, or no yet: encoding, transcoding, rendering, etc.

If MPEG4 is your goal, you could simply use an Elgato H.264 encoding stick or a Matrox box.

I would like to use a good lasting format, but also that it may be flexible or versatile at the time to communicate with it so that I can upload it to youtube, burn it to a DVD, or project it on a screen. (I am sorry, being so new, I don't know a lot, hopefully I am not talking a lot of nonsense here).

I once made a short movie using iMovie. I really thought long about the story and such. And honestly, I think it's still one of the best videos I did. ...

That's my next argument. Although there are free editors, they can't tip to expensive editing suites. I can't imagine that something which is free has the same amount and costs spent into a product as a paid editor. ....

I don't know whether that editor is on linux, but linux is really a whole other OS you need to learn ...

.... is that it's really recommended to get a second hard drive

As also recommended by MartinX, I would also like to try iMovie. Hopefully it is not very complicated and not too expensive : ) !!! Looks like there is not a good free software for the mac, and learning linux may take a long while.

I have a second hard drive, though external.

Thank you very much again to all of you, very kind regards,

igmolinav.

 

[KeithPratt]

I'd recommend ditching the DSLR thing. To put it bluntly, your computer and knowledge are not up to dealing with it. DSLR video is fraught with potential pratfalls, so don't take that as an insult.

I'd recommend you use a miniDV camcorder and try to get hold of iMovie '06. Because miniDV was the standard for many years, and software like iMovie was built around the format, a lot of the process is done for you. And your iBook will be able to handle it.

But of greater benefit would be to get some help for both the shooting and the editing. Having someone who knows what they're doing guiding you throughout will make your life easier and the end product a lot better.

 

[igmolinav]

Hello Keitt,

The thing, is that I used to be a photographer, and I still do photography. My budget is a bit restricted. I mean, I already have the lenses, I just have to buy or borrow a dSLR with video capabilities.

Will the ibook be able to handle the dSLR video ??

Kind regards,

igmolinav.

 

[handsome pete]

Hello Keitt,

The thing, is that I used to be a photographer, and I still do photography. My budget is a bit restricted. I mean, I already have the lenses, I just have to buy or borrow a dSLR with video capabilities.

Will the ibook be able to handle the dSLR video ??

Kind regards,

igmolinav.

Being a photographer will certainly help, but using DSLRs for video presents a lot more challenges than you would expect. A good background in video is highly recommended.

Also, you'll need to look into an audio solution. The current crop of DLSRs capture terrible audio.

Lastly, DSLR footage needs to be transcoded for smooth editing. That might prove difficult for your iBook and iMovie.

 

[igmolinav]

Hi Pete,

A good background in video is highly recommended.

How can i improve my background in video ?? Are there some "short cuts" you may want to recommend ??

Also, you'll need to look into an audio solution. The current crop of DLSRs capture terrible audio.

This would be the audio solution:
http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/index.html

Lastly, DSLR footage needs to be transcoded for smooth editing. That might prove difficult for your iBook and iMovie.

Then I may have to be prepared to use other computer, (perhaps not my own). What is transcoding ??

Kind regards,

igmolinav.

 

[martinX]

Once I started using FCP, I never touched iMovie again. Even the smallest projects gained from the flexibility that FCP offered over iMovie.

Your G4 iBook will not be able to do this.

Do not make your first project a big, do-it-or-die project. No matter which system you choose, you have a lot of learning to do, especially shooting with dSLR and capturing audio separately.

 

[igmolinav]

Hi Martin,

Your G4 iBook will not be able to do this.

Would a 13" or a 15" MBP be able to handle this ??

Do not make your first project a big, do-it-or-die project. No matter which system you choose, you have a lot of learning to do, especially shooting with dSLR and capturing audio separately.

Don't worry, as I mentioned, it would only be small movie segments of three to five minutes. At the most ten minutes.

Kind regards,

igmolinav.

 

[boch82]

If all you want to do is shoot short segments and string them together you dont need anything more than a miniDV camera and imovie. Your G4 laptop should handle that fine as long as you have some external storage. If you go with any solid state recording (DSLR, XDCAM, P2 etc) you will run into some computability issues with the old os and it will be really slow.

I would recommend getting a new macbook pro. the 13" would be fine for your needs. I have shot with the Canon 5d and 7d multiple times and never had any issues bringing in footage to my 15"MBP right on set or on my MacPro in my studio.

THe 15" MBP is running Final Cut Studio 3 and Avid Media Composer 5 and well as Adobe CS5 Master Suite. (Im sure Imovie works I just dont use it). I edit full HD video at ProRes444 and never had any issues with speed or memory.

 

[handsome pete]

Hi Pete,


How can i improve my background in video ?? Are there some "short cuts" you may want to recommend ??


This would be the audio solution:
http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/index.html

Then I may have to be prepared to use other computer, (perhaps not my own). What is transcoding ??

Kind regards,

igmolinav.

Well there are a lot of forums out there specifically geared towards indie filmmaking. I'd recommend DVXUser. A lot of professionals and amateurs talking over there.

But the best way is to just get your hands on some equipment and start shooting. Your photography background will certainly help, but a bunch of other stuff enters into the equation once you add motion. Lighting is key. And of course audio, which usually seems to be the most overlooked aspect of video production.

That zoom recorder you linked to will get the job done, but I would suggest looking into a more dedicated field recorder. You don't need it to do video as well. The H4n is a pretty popular one, and you'll get the XLR inputs for external mics if you decide to use any.

Transcoding is essentially just converting your footage to a different codec. In the case of DSLRs, they shoot H264 video. While it is possible to edit native H264, it is not recommended. It is meant to be a delivery codec and not an editing medium. The common practice today with DSLR footage is to transcode to ProRes and edit that.

 

[martinX]

How can i improve my background in video ?? Are there some "short cuts" you may want to recommend ??

I have just finished the book The Shut Up and Shoot Documentary Guide and have found it useful and entertaining. Good for getting you out there and making a movie.

 

[igmolinav]

Hi,

Thank you for your answers again : ) !!!

I would recommend getting a new macbook pro. the 13" would be fine for your needs. I have shot with the Canon 5d and 7d multiple times and never had any issues bringing in footage to my 15"MBP right on set or on my MacPro in my studio

I am more likely to shoot with a Canon 550d, (or Rebel T2i), or a Nikon, (yet to be seen which one). You say the 13" would be fine for my needs. Even for the next few years ??

Well there are a lot of forums out there specifically geared towards indie filmmaking. I'd recommend DVXUser. A lot of professionals and amateurs talking over there.

Thank you : ) !!! I'll take a look !!!

But the best way is to just get your hands on some equipment and start shooting. Your photography background will certainly help, but a bunch of other stuff enters into the equation once you add motion. Lighting is key.

Even if what I am doing is a documentary ?? You don't recommend me to work with available light, even inside with the light of a lightbulb or next to a window ?

And of course audio, which usually seems to be the most overlooked aspect of video production. .........
......That zoom recorder you linked to will get the job done, but I would suggest looking into a more dedicated field recorder. You don't need it to do video as well. The H4n is a pretty popular one, and you'll get the XLR inputs for external mics if you decide to use any.

I had originally thought on the Zoom H2 that has a lower price. However, for the price it may not have enough features. I'll be recording voice mainly. What do you think, for this purpose would it be good to get the H4n, or the H2?? Just as a general question, these two Zoom products can be mounted atop a dSLR, can't they??

Transcoding is essentially just converting your footage to a different codec. In the case of DSLRs, they shoot H264 video. While it is possible to edit native H264, it is not recommended. It is meant to be a delivery codec and not an editing medium. The common practice today with DSLR footage is to transcode to ProRes and edit that.

Thank you I was lost. It is a new language to me completely !!!

Very kind regards,

igmolinav

 

[martinX]

I am more likely to shoot with a Canon 550d, (or Rebel T2i), or a Nikon, (yet to be seen which one). You say the 13" would be fine for my needs. Even for the next few years ??

Your new laptop will be slow, old and obsolete within a month and you'll want to buy a new one. Welcome to the world of computers.

You don't recommend me to work with available light, even inside with the light of a lightbulb or next to a window ?

Working with available light is fine for a doco if that's what you have. I really recommend the "Shut up and shoot" book I mentioned above. Know how light works.

I've never used a Zoom product but I'd love to have the H4n. The ability to connect professional microphones to it is the main feature for me. I highly recommend buying or hiring professional wireless lavs - see this thread. They sound great, aren't as imposing as shoving a mic in someone's face, you don't necessarily need a separate sound recordist and you are freed from long cables.

Remember, if you have bad sound, you don't have a movie.

 

[igmolinav]

Hi,

Working with available light is fine for a doco if that's what you have. I really recommend the "Shut up and shoot" book I mentioned above. Know how light works.

Thank you, I'll check tomorrow if any of my local libraries has it : ) !!!

I highly recommend buying or hiring professional wireless lavs

This coming week I'll go a bit around to see where I can find them.

Thank you again, kind regards,

igmolinav.