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Does 10.9 suffer from same slow shutdown issue as 10.8?

Krazy Bill

Krazy Bill

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Dec 21, 2011
2,985
3
Exact same 20 second timeout bug. (Check your console logs). LOL! I give up. :)

P.S. Queuing the apologists who are about to lecture on how stupid it is to shut down/reboot.

But hey... multi monitor support is kind of awesome. It's like I have 2 different and independent machines sitting side-by-side. (sort of) :eek:
 
*grumble*, *grumble*

I may just have to bite the bullet this time and live with the slow(er) shut down, Apple is adding too many cool things for me to stay on SL.
 
justperry said:
We probably have to wait until 10.10 for it to get fixed Krazy Bill, all we can do now is killing these processes ourselves, sadly.:mad:
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chrfr said:
It's safe to assume that Apple does not consider this a bug.
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Accurate assessments on all counts. I just wish they'd make that little gray spinning wheel more entertaining since it's there for so long. Maybe put arrows and numbers on it. Pick one as we reboot and see if it lands on it just before the black screen.

Sometimes I bootcamp into Windows and forget why. :eek:
 
Krazy Bill said:
Accurate assessments on all counts. I just wish they'd make that little gray spinning wheel more entertaining since it's there for so long. Maybe put arrows and numbers on it. Pick one as we reboot and see if it lands on it just before the black screen.

Sometimes I bootcamp into Windows and forget why. :eek:
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Or switch on verbose mode, at least you can then see when it restarts.:)
 
For me my shutdown has been even slower than Mountain Lion. Not really a problem for me but I'm just throwing that out there.
 
w0lf said:
For me my shutdown has been even slower than Mountain Lion.
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Well, 20 seconds or 27... it's all the same to me when you're being hypnotized by the spinning gear wheel. :D

I haven't tried the terminal hacks yet. Will do that eventually. I can certainly live with it after that. Just can't believe nobody at Apple shuts down their machines.
 
chrfr said:
Or they have a valid reason for increasing the timeout.
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It is during the time you are watching the spinning gray wheel that your mac is sending subliminal messages to your brain....

BUY MORE APPLE PRODUCTS
BUY MORE APPLE PRODUCTS
BUY MORE APPLE PRODUCTS
BUY MORE APPLE PRODUCTS
BUY MORE APPLE PRODUCTS
BUY MORE APPLE PRODUCTS

:eek::eek::eek:
 
chrfr said:
Or they have a valid reason for increasing the timeout.
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What pray tell could that be? (I'll wait here). A process "times out" because something failed to do what it was supposed to do. :) Try shutting down from the log in screen... when nothing of consequence has loaded like your sky drive/drop box accounts, messages, mail... you'll get the same results.

Don't drink the apology kool-aide. There are just times when Apple screws up. :D
 
chrfr said:
I'm not apologizing for Apple. The timeout change seems too simple to be accidental.
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The fact that there is a timeout, however long, isn't an issue. The issue is why aren't certain processes responding within that interval, over and over? Something is wrong with the way those processes shutdown, or I should say, fail to shutdown consistently. That's what needs to be fixed, not changing the timeout to kill them earlier. We change the interval to deal with the issue but this isn't a permanent solution, more of a band-aid remedy in the meantime.
 
Does 10.9 suffer from same slow shutdown issue as 10.8?

I've seen countless posts (especially over at Apple's support forums) mention that Mountain Lion has a slow shut down issue, even after 10.8.4 has been released. I'm experiencing this on two Macs that I own, and haven't found any way to fix this (repaired permissions, cleared cache, fiddled with Terminal and preferences files, and even reinstalled the OS from scratch). It takes roughly 15-20 seconds for the system to shutdown, compared to 2-5 seconds in Lion and early release builds of Mountain Lion.

Has this been addressed in 10.9?
 
I think this is still there, but literally five minutes before I saw this post, I was optimizing away at faster shutdown and boot up speeds. I know I get 5 second boot up into my completely active desktop (Mac Mini + 512 SSD + 16GB RAM), but I recall seeing ~20 second shutdown times, and console logs may have indicated a runaway process waiting for a timeout.
 
Yes, my experience is that shutdown with 10.9 is as slow as 10.8 was on my machine. Granted, we're talking about 20-30 seconds, but definitely significantly slower than SL.
 
Nope not fixed.

Still takes me 20-30+ seconds to shut down with an SSD.
 
Really wondering why anyone thinks this is an issue in the first place.

Sleeping your Mac is energy-efficient, especially on the most recent models, and you get nearly instant-on as well.

Why the compulsion with a few seconds in performing an infrequent activity?
 
smithrh said:
Really wondering why anyone thinks this is an issue in the first place.

Sleeping your Mac is energy-efficient, especially on the most recent models, and you get nearly instant-on as well.

Why the compulsion with a few seconds in performing an infrequent activity?
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Well some people need to dual boot into Windows, so for them shutdown down might be a more frequent activity. Others might find that shutting down and rebooting actually preserves more battery than letting the computer sleep, so for them the extra battery life is more of a priority than instant on. In those cases it's hard to be happy with a system taking longer to shutdown then it ought to.

In any case, since the systems are not shutting down properly, as indicated by the Console logs, what I don't understand is why this isn't being fixed in the first place. Yes it's priority might not be very high, but it does seem like it ought to be addressed. Our systems should be running optimally after all.
 
smithrh said:
Really wondering why anyone thinks this is an issue in the first place.

Sleeping your Mac is energy-efficient, especially on the most recent models, and you get nearly instant-on as well.

Why the compulsion with a few seconds in performing an infrequent activity?
Click to expand...

I shut my iMac down every night and I think it would be weird to leave it sleeping overnight. It'd waste power too. It is a pain to have to stand there waiting for 30 seconds for the silly thing to switch off before I can turn the mains off, especially when it used to shut down in about 5 seconds with Leopard > Lion
 
Quercus Alba said:
I shut my iMac down every night and I think it would be weird to leave it sleeping overnight. It'd waste power too. It is a pain to have to stand there waiting for 30 seconds for the silly thing to switch off before I can turn the mains off, especially when it used to shut down in about 5 seconds with Leopard > Lion
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Not gonna be ridiculous and scold you for an absolutely harmless personal decision, but I do want to point out that the amount of power your iMac uses while sleeping is pretty inconsequential- certainly not enough to cancel out the benefit of it being ready to go almost right away in the morning.

Still though, you shouldn't have to deal with long shutdown times if you choose to power off your iMac every night. I can't believe this has been an issue for as long as it has been- either the OS X team doesn't think it's a high priority issue, or the root of the problem is deeper than we realize. It doesn't take away from how amazing Mavericks is so far, but it's a strange quirk for sure.
 
Tubamajuba said:
Not gonna be ridiculous and scold you for an absolutely harmless personal decision, but I do want to point out that the amount of power your iMac uses while sleeping is pretty inconsequential- certainly not enough to cancel out the benefit of it being ready to go almost right away in the morning.

Still though, you shouldn't have to deal with long shutdown times if you choose to power off your iMac every night. I can't believe this has been an issue for as long as it has been- either the OS X team doesn't think it's a high priority issue, or the root of the problem is deeper than we realize. It doesn't take away from how amazing Mavericks is so far, but it's a strange quirk for sure.
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How do you know that it is even a problem to begin with? How do you know that the quick shutdowns weren't the actual bug that got "fixed"?

OS X is a very, very complicated beast. There are hundreds of processes running in the background that combine to form the environment you, as a user, interact with. When a shutdown event is triggered, a process called launchd (which all other processes run under) attempts to shut down as many processes as possible in parallel.

A lot of the times, this doesn't go as planned. Some processes need to be shut down before others. Some processes need to wait for a system resource to quiesce before they can terminate cleanly. Others will try to dump data to disk before they're killed, and if there's multiple processes all doing this at the same time it can block the disk I/O, causing the shutdown to slow down or momentarily stall.

I honestly don't think the OS X team cares about this, because in the end- the system always shuts down, and that is all they care about. Trying to track down the cause of something that stalls the shutdown procedure for 5 minutes would be easy- that's a bug that should be fixed. Trying to figure out why the process is taking 20 seconds instead of 5 could be impossible. That extra 15 seconds could be divided among a hundred different processes, all of which are each taking slightly longer to quit for whatever reason. Are you going to pull a thousand different people off fixing critical bugs and writing new code just to go hunting around to shave off a few milliseconds off how some process is supposed to terminate? I doubt it.

The only thing any of you can do, if it really matters to you- is to send feedback to Apple:

http://www.apple.com/feedback/

If you are a developer, you can send them a bug report through Radar:

http://radar.apple.com

-SC
 
ScottishCaptain said:
How do you know that it is even a problem to begin with? How do you know that the quick shutdowns weren't the actual bug that got "fixed"?

OS X is a very, very complicated beast. There are hundreds of processes running in the background that combine to form the environment you, as a user, interact with. When a shutdown event is triggered, a process called launchd (which all other processes run under) attempts to shut down as many processes as possible in parallel.

A lot of the times, this doesn't go as planned. Some processes need to be shut down before others. Some processes need to wait for a system resource to quiesce before they can terminate cleanly. Others will try to dump data to disk before they're killed, and if there's multiple processes all doing this at the same time it can block the disk I/O, causing the shutdown to slow down or momentarily stall.

I honestly don't think the OS X team cares about this, because in the end- the system always shuts down, and that is all they care about. Trying to track down the cause of something that stalls the shutdown procedure for 5 minutes would be easy- that's a bug that should be fixed. Trying to figure out why the process is taking 20 seconds instead of 5 could be impossible. That extra 15 seconds could be divided among a hundred different processes, all of which are each taking slightly longer to quit for whatever reason. Are you going to pull a thousand different people off fixing critical bugs and writing new code just to go hunting around to shave off a few milliseconds off how some process is supposed to terminate? I doubt it.
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Services crashing and being force quit by the system is not a feature.

Since the bug appeared in Mountain Lion, it has always been about 4-5 services (which vary from person to person) that crash almost every time the machine is shut down and have to be killed by a built in 20 second timer.

It's not as if anyone is actually complaining about the time it takes for their machine to shut down because it takes about 5 seconds to enter the terminal commands to 'fix' the issue. The real question is why has Apple not addressed the problem.
 
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