Does anyone else use a case sensitive APFS drive format? If yes, why?

[smileman]

I'm being advised in below thread to spend hours abandoning my attempt to migrate seamlessly to a new machine and just accept that case sensitive will pose some future problems for me and bite the bullet on a fresh manual install to my new machine.

However, I've never run into any issues with having a case sensitive drive. And I'd much prefer to not have to spend hours/days setting up a new machine if I can avoid it.

Would be curious if I am the first and only person to not be able to use Migration Assistant to a new machine from a case sensitive drive older machine?

Also, no one has been able to tell me why after reformatting an M3 MBA to case sensitive that the drive reverts to plain APFS after reinstalling the OS?

Thanks.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/heads-up-currently-impossible-to-use-migration-assistant-to-migrate-a-2019-mbp-case-sensitive-apfs-formatted-hard-drive-to-m3-mba.2443495/?post=33583322#post-33583322

 

[theluggage]

I've got one case-sensitive APFS volume set up purely for website development targeted at (case sensitive) Linux servers. It's a guard against broken links due to mis-casing filenames not showing up until the site is uploaded, or accidentally creating clashing names from the Linux side.

That's the only reason I can think of - for volumes mainly conrtaining files that are going to be shared with/uploaded to a case-sensitive operating system like Linux - and I'd definitely restrict it to extra "volumes" that could easily be migrated separately, not the main volume.

It's APFS's ability to easily create and remove "volumes" in free space that makes this quite handy if you're working with Linux.

I have a hunch that the feature might only be there to enable MacOS to be officially certified as being Unix® (Fun fact - technically, MacOS is Unix, Linux isn't Unix!)

 

[Anonymous Freak]

Only when file system compatibility with Linux servers is needed.

 

[fessura]

btw, the OP is speaking of using case-sensitive on the system drive, which seems very non-typical and seems also not recommended by Apple.

I found this. I had heard about such a thing earlier while looking into it a few days ago.

You can make a Time Machine backup to a new drive, change some setting with it, so that you can restore it to a new computer with the default non case-sensitive.

GitHub - cr/MacCaseSensitiveConversion: How to convert a case-sensitive Mac installation to case-insensitive

How to convert a case-sensitive Mac installation to case-insensitive - cr/MacCaseSensitiveConversion

github.com

 

[smileman]

Has anyone ever successfully used Migration Assistant for an Intel Mac case sensitive drive (mine is a 2019 15” 2TB SSD running 15.1.1) to migrate to a case sensitive M3 MBA or M3/M4 MBP?

 

[joevt]

Never case sensitive for system drive.

Case sensitive on one partition for Linux source code repository.

 

[theluggage]

Also, no one has been able to tell me why after reformatting an M3 MBA to case sensitive that the drive reverts to plain APFS after reinstalling the OS?

That’s probably because, with APFS, the installer creates various new volumes to hold the MacOS install (it’s now a lot more involved than just a System folder) and I guess these default to case insensitive. I don’t know if there is still an installer option to install MacOS system to a case sensitive volume but, honestly, Don’t Do That.

With APFS it’s easy to create a second, case sensitive volume on your main drive just for files you’re going to share with Linux/Unix systems. Having your system and Mac apps on case sensitive would be an accident waiting to happen.

If you can’t get migration assistant to work I’d bite the bullet and do a manual migration & take the opportunity to put anything that *has* to be case sensitive on its own volume.

 

[fessura]

That I can tell the OP may not have any specific need for case-sensitive. It could be that somehow his system eventually became case sensitive — maybe an older macOS re-install or some conversion with an option if it was once available -, and his want to keep it is from maybe not being too technical and reasons such as the pain or for him such seemingly being without problems so far.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP:

I've given you recommendations about how to move and migrate your data in the other thread you started about this.

Abandon "case sensitivity", and you'll find things go much easier.

You have never actually explained WHY you need or require it...

 

[smileman]

OP:

I've given you recommendations about how to move and migrate your data in the other thread you started about this.

Abandon "case sensitivity", and you'll find things go much easier.

You have never actually explained WHY you need or require it...

Correct, the only reason I want to maintain case sensitive is so I can use Migration Assistant.

Would love to hear whether anyone has used Migration Assistant for an Intel Mac case sensitive drive (mine is a 2019 15” 2TB SSD running 15.1.1) to migrate to a case sensitive M3 MBA or M3/M4 MBP? Or if there is some known technical reason for why this is impossible?

 

[theluggage]

Correct, the only reason I want to maintain case sensitive is so I can use Migration Assistant.

Would love to hear whether anyone has used Migration Assistant for an Intel Mac case sensitive drive (mine is a 2019 15” 2TB SSD running 15.1.1) to migrate to a case sensitive M3 MBA or M3/M4 MBP? Or if there is some known technical reason for why this is impossible?

Sounds to me like the ability to install MacOS with a case sensitive system drive has been quietly removed. As I posted previously, restoring MacOS doesn't just copy files into the existing volume, it creates a complex set of linked volumes, and if the installer doesn't have some hidden option to make these case sensitive, you're out of luck.

I'd say that it's very unlikely that there's anything wrong with your new Mac, and if there is odds are that it's something you've caused by trying to format it as case sensitive. If there is a glitch, it's more likely to do with your 2019 Mac being set up in an unusual way.

To be frank: almost everybody is advising you to take the time to migrate manually and rid your life of case-sensitive filesystems. It's probably time to take that advice. Even if you manage to work around it this time, it's not something that's going to get better supported - or properly tested - over the years. You can find postings advising people that having the system drive case sensitive is a Bad Idea on the interweb going back years - and you're basically just lucky that you haven't had problems before now. It's a good idea to have a "clean start" occasionally, anyway (certainly when going from Intel to Apple Silicon) and clear out any cruft that Migration Assistant might copy over.

Sounds like you've already wasted more time on this than you'd have saved using Migration Assistant.

 

[Fishrrman]

"Correct, the only reason I want to maintain case sensitive is so I can use Migration Assistant."

If you follow the instructions I've given you elsewhere, you CAN use migration assistant, as it was intended to be used.

Yet I doubt you've actually TRIED any of the advice I've given you.

Did you TRY using either CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper to clone from your case-sensitive drive to a NON-case-sensitive backup drive?

What happens?

If the clone goes through, then connect the cloned backup (which should be NON-case-sensitive) to your NEW Mac and run setup assistant.

SOMETHING TO BE AWARE OF:
If you've already messed with the NEW Mac, and you have it "part-way set up", you can "wipe it clean" back to "moment zero" by using the "erase all content and settings" function, which will restore it to "out-of-the-box shape" (hence, what I call "moment zero").

Then used the cloned backup on it.

Will others (than the OP) please critique this advice?
I've never used case-sensitive, I'm thinking that it's a "drive-localized" condition only.
In other words, DATA saved on a case-sensitive drive can be "cloned over" to a NON-case-sensitive drive without any problems.
Is this assumption correct?

 

[FreakinEurekan]

I don't use case-sensitive, and wouldn't without a specific reason. I know many apps will choke because of minor code issues like creating a file called "myFile.txt" and then updating "myfile.txt"

 

[smileman]

Sounds like you've already wasted more time on this than you'd have saved using Migration Assistant.

Yes, the most frustrating thing about this whole experience was that only the third Apple senior support person mentioned to me, and mentioned at the end of an hour long call, that this was a known issue. Apple could have saved me hours by making me aware of that up front.

 

[theluggage]

I've never used case-sensitive, I'm thinking that it's a "drive-localized" condition only.

With APFS, case-sensitive is a per-volume setting. “Cloning” a volume might copy that attribute - depends on the software - so you’d have to check the settings and Docs for CCC/SuperDuper/whatever.

Also, under modern MacOS, a “system drive” isn’t a simple volume - it’s multiple linked and overlaid volumes used to achieve better security, rootless operation and sandboxing, which is probably the source of the whole issue, and cloning programs have to deal with that without losing application settings etc. Whether Migration Assistant will accept a file-by-file copy of a system drive & find the settings files it needs is going to be a time consuming try-it-and-see process - especially since we don’t really know the state of the OPs source drive (since it is a mystery how it ended up case sensitive to begin with).

Another problem is that potentially a case-sensitive volume can contain clashing files or directories like
“filename” and “FileName” in which case there will be problems automatically copying the files to a case-insensitive volume.

So I’m not saying your method won’t work - but it might not work and cloning drives is time consuming. I double-down on my recommendation for the OP to throw in the towel, factory-reset their new machine and reinstall by hand without case sensitivity. That way, this problem isn’t going to crop up at the next OS upgrade. Frankly, I’d do that after a major upgrade like Intel to Apple Silicon anyway as an opportunity to clean out any long-forgotten apps and settings.

 

[smileman]

which is probably the source of the whole issue

I think there wouldn't be an issue if the M3 MBA could retain the case sensitive drive following reinstalling the OSs (first Sonoma, then Sequoia).

So my biggest question has been:

1. can I can find a new apple silicon machine (the M3 MBA or something else?) that after converting the drive to case sensitive
2. would just reinstall Sequoia (and skip the Sonoma reinstall that I currently also have to do)
3. then maybe the case sensitive drive format would be retained, and
4. I could successfully use Migration Assistant?

I don't think anyone is this or the other related thread has opined on whether this might work?

For my day-to-day computing needs, case sensitive is and has been working perfectly for me (other than this migration issue), so I see no need to change it if I can avoid doing that.

 

[NoBoMac]

That’s probably because, with APFS, the installer creates various new volumes to hold the MacOS install (it’s now a lot more involved than just a System folder)

This.

Do a "diskutil apfs list" and see, for example, the roles that get assigned to volumes, to tag what they are for. So can't just make a volume and good to go these days.

Another example of this is Time Machine volumes. If you create an encrypted volume for TM, TM will wipe it out and create a whole new one with a role of Backup.

So, at install, the pre-made volumes are not "correct" for the installer, so it's going to "fix the problem".

 

[smileman]

I’m just gonna take the new M3 MBA into the Genius Bar and have them set up the drive case sensitive.

I haven’t heard anyone in the forums here explain why this shouldn’t be possible.

Thank you everyone for trying to help.

 

[Fishrrman]

(sigh)
You never told us WHY you NEED "case sensitive".
If you can't articulate the answer, then you don't need it.

What if the Apple Store says they can't do that?

 

[smileman]

(sigh)
You never told us WHY you NEED "case sensitive".
If you can't articulate the answer, then you don't need it.

What if the Apple Store says they can't do that?

The only reason I need it is to make migration assistant work.

And if Apple tells me something like it won’t work on an MBA but will om another model like a MacBook Pro then I would see about switching to that.

 

[Fishrrman]

"The only reason I need it is to make migration assistant work."

I have told you what you need to do to "make migration assistant work" in my previous posts to you.
Yet... you refuse to do it.
Is there a reason why?

If it "won't work" on ONE model of Mac, it's probably not going to work on the others, either.