Does Apple Block the oldest hardware-compatible OS on refurbs? (wiping Catalina on a 2019 15")

[zedsdeadbaby]

Hey all....

Does Apple Block the oldest OS that originally came with a machine before being refurbed?

Scenario: I'm considering a refurbed macbook. Thing is... Based on me having a complex and expensive software ecosystem, Catalina just isn't a risk i can take for work. In short I'd need to stay on Mojave for quite some time...

So basically I'm considering a 2019 15 inch MacBook Pro which would have originally shipped with Mojave. But Apple being Apple, they install Catalina on all current refurbs... And am wondering if Apple blocks restoring a refurb that would have originally shipped with Mojave from wiping 10.15 and installing Mojave. Or, if Catalina's Recovery will block me from wiping the machine and installing 10.14?

My hunch is it would, if so would disabling secure boot, then booting from a Moajve disk and wiping the Catalina Volume be a workaround, or are all current Apple refurbs permanently stuck with Cataliina or later?

 

[owbp]

I’m interested to read the response from someone with the refurb, but i don’t see why you couldn’t boot with the shift+alt+cmd+r (Internet recovery that boots into the OS that came with the Mac).

That’s what i did with my 2019 15” that i bought recently exactly to avoid Catalina ( i make my living with Avid Pro Tools and video projects and I don’t see them sorting that out in Catalina any time soon).

 

[Fishrrman]

You could -try- the special version of internet recovery:
shift option command R
... to see if it works for you.

It might work.
Or... it might not.

If it doesn't work, you'll need to get ahold of a copy of the Mojave installer (any way you can), and then use DiskMaker X to create a bootable USB flashdrive installer.

Then... boot from the flashdrive.
Open disk utility and choose "show all devices" from the view menu (VERY important that you do this)
ERASE the entire internal drive
Then...
Install a copy of Mojave onto the drive.

 

[zedsdeadbaby]

I’m interested to read the response from someone with the refurb, but i don’t see why you couldn’t boot with the shift+alt+cmd+r (Internet recovery that boots into the OS that came with the Mac).

That’s what i did with my 2019 15” that i bought recently exactly to avoid Catalina ( i make my living with Avid Pro Tools and video projects and I don’t see them sorting that out in Catalina any time soon).

Thanks. This is more or less the same boat I'm in... I compose full time.. Although I use Logic I have an absolute ton of instruments and plugins, some of which are no longer supported, have been deprecated, etc... With the switch to ARM I need to find a portable machine I can ride out for at least a good 4 years until things normalize...

To be clear, you bought this before they released the 16 inch, is that correct? Or did you buy it as a refurb?

You could -try- the special version of internet recovery:
shift option command R
... to see if it works for you.

It might work.
Or... it might not.

If it doesn't work, you'll need to get ahold of a copy of the Mojave installer (any way you can), and then use DiskMaker X to create a bootable USB flashdrive installer.

Then... boot from the flashdrive.
Open disk utility and choose "show all devices" from the view menu (VERY important that you do this)
ERASE the entire internal drive
Then...
Install a copy of Mojave onto the drive.

I have a Mojave thumb drive already so no worries there... My main question was if Catalina attempts to block a downgrade. (Which I assume is true..)

And, more importantly if Apple updates the EFI on refurbs in such a way that it would block the machine from installing 10.14, (if the refurbed model originally shipped with 10.14.)

While the last bit seems kind of extreme a phone call to support said this was a firm "no". I'm hoping the guy was either misinformed, or unaware. That said Apple's changed the rules so many times in recent years I wouldn't put it past them.

If anyone's successfully done this on a 2019 15 inch refurb it would be a huge help if you could confirm it'll work...

 

[Fishrrman]

"I have a Mojave thumb drive already so no worries there... My main question was if Catalina attempts to block a downgrade."

I would doubt that.
Why don't you try booting from the flashdrive, just to see what happens?
Even if you don't choose to install just yet?

 

[zedsdeadbaby]

"I have a Mojave thumb drive already so no worries there... My main question was if Catalina attempts to block a downgrade."

I would doubt that.
Why don't you try booting from the flashdrive, just to see what happens?
Even if you don't choose to install just yet?

I haven't bought the refurb yet, I'm trying to figure this out before pulling the trigger... It's a pricy machine too. Given the current situation returns aren't exactly the easiest or ideal way to figure out if this might work. (Especially given that I'm in the US. Things are an absolute ****show here. Non-essential businesses are closed, states are shutting down all over again, etc...) Also the machine I'd be pulling the trigger on is maxed out, (costing over 4k with taxes...) Not the kind of money I'd like to be shelling out if this turned out to be the case.

The TLDR version is: I'm hoping to get an answer about this without having to do an expensive experiment with a less than ideal return scenario if I was SOL. If Apple support actually had their act together I wouldn't be posting the question here... 😕

FYI I've also never bought a refurb before... Normally I'd buy new but Catalina's thrown a wrench in the works, and ARM is going to be messy for people who rely on VST/AU plugins...

 

[Tankmaze]

For Mac's I'm fairly certain Apple doesn't block if you want to downgrade the OS.
But it does warns you if the OS is too old to install on the machine, and you will not be able to install it.

The machine you are looking to buy was preinstalled on Mojave so it would have all the drivers available on that OS, so if Apple refurb upgrade that to Catalina I'm fairly certain also that you can downgrade the machine to Mojave because it already have the necessary drivers.

 

[zedsdeadbaby]

For Mac's I'm fairly certain Apple doesn't block if you want to downgrade the OS.
But it does warns you if the OS is too old to install on the machine, and you will not be able to install it.

The machine you are looking to buy was preinstalled on Mojave so it would have all the drivers available on that OS, so if Apple refurb upgrade that to Catalina I'm fairly certain also that you can downgrade the machine to Mojave because it already have the necessary drivers.

Thanks! Really appreciate it. Obviously it's not a 100% guarantee, but a lot more reassuring... Now I just have to call support and see what the return process currently is just in case there's the slightest chance it wouldn't work...

 

[MJedi]

It's not the same experience, but when I purchased a new Mac mini a few months ago (a "2020" model that was really only a 2018 model with upgraded specs) it came with Catalina. But since the 2018 Mac mini originally came with Mojave, I was able to downgrade my new Mac mini to Mojave.

 

[zedsdeadbaby]

It's not the same experience, but when I purchased a new Mac mini a few months ago (a "2020" model that was really only a 2018 model with upgraded specs) it came with Catalina. But since the 2018 Mac mini originally came with Mojave, I was able to downgrade my new Mac mini to Mojave.

Nice. Seems like the same concept overall since the 2019 15" shipped with 10.14... (But comes with 10.15 installed.) That's all I need to know to make sure I should be in the clear...

Did you have to fully wipe the drive 1st and boot from a thumb drive, or were you able install it via recovery?

 

[owbp]

With the switch to ARM I need to find a portable machine I can ride out for at least a good 4 years until things normalize...

Coudn't agree more, and since so many things are still non working in Catalina, although Apple announced 3 or more years ago transition to only 64-bit, i can't imagine how long will music apps be behind when ARM Macs are released.

To be clear, you bought this before they released the 16 inch, is that correct? Or did you buy it as a refurb?

No to both Don't have Apple Store in my country, so no refurbs here.
I've bought second hand (original box, few month old) 2019 15" i7 in spring of 2020. Im still a month or so in Apple Care.
So it came with Catalina installed, but i've booted into Recovery (SHIFT+OPT+CMD+R), deleted the drive and reinstalled Mojave the same day.

I had a really thorough thought on it, and was ready to buy a 16", but i really didn't want to buy a new Mac and then go to the same workflow i would have to go through if i bought a G5 Powermac today (transcoding every video and audio file prior to the import).
And many thing i do every day are still not supported by Avid in Catalina...


As i have stated in my first post and so are the others in the thread, i really don't see why internet recovery wouldn't do the job.

How to reinstall macOS - Apple Support

You can use macOS Recovery, your computer's built-in recovery system, to reinstall the Mac operating system. Reinstalling macOS doesn't remove your personal data.

support.apple.com

 

[MJedi]

Nice. Seems like the same concept overall since the 2019 15" shipped with 10.14... (But comes with 10.15 installed.) That's all I need to know to make sure I should be in the clear...

Did you have to fully wipe the drive 1st and boot from a thumb drive, or were you able install it via recovery?

I had to create a bootable USB installer of Mojave and boot from there. Once in MacOS Recovery, I used Disk Utility to erase Macintosh HD. Then I went back to the main window and installed Mojave.

 

[profcutter]

Apple still has a return policy that states if you buy when stores are closed, you have 2 weeks after your local store opens to return. That could mean you could use the machine for 6 weeks if your local store is closed for a month. Seems to only work if you can pick up at the mostly closed store though:

Apple Store Online

Shop the latest Apple products, accessories and offers. Compare models, get expert shopping help, plus flexible payment and delivery options.

www.apple.com

 

[zedsdeadbaby]

I had to create a bootable USB installer of Mojave and boot from there. Once in MacOS Recovery, I used Disk Utility to erase Macintosh HD. Then I went back to the main window and installed Mojave.

Much appreciated. I also managed to get a support person on the phone that evening who confirmed the same for me before seeing the follow ups here...

Appreciate everyone's feedback, hopefully this will be useful for anyone else with the same question.