Don't ask for help with illegally downloaded and installed copies of Snow Leopard

[Mal]

I know, I know, I'm not a mod, but I don't think it's against the rules to remind people of the rules, and this is a particularly rampant problem right now.

If you don't have an Apple Developer Connection account and have not legally downloaded a Developer Preview of Snow Leopard, and have instead obtained it through other means (like, say, a torrent or from a friend), then under no circumstances should you post here to complain about how buggy it is, get help because you screwed something up, or brag about how you stole the software and got it running on your computer. In general, DON'T TELL US YOU INSTALLED ILLEGAL SOFTWARE.

Seriously.

Any questions can be referred to the Apple Dev Board (of which I am not a member, and I do not have Snow Leopard installed, btw).

In fact, mods, I would like to request a temporary sticky of this or a similar topic to avoid too many more of those threads being created.

jW

 

[Duff-Man]

Duff-Man says....I've reported a few threads and I've seen some locked and some left open...not sure why that is (and haven't bothered to pm any mods yet to ask).......but you are right for sure with one thing - it's a rampant problem, and will probably just get worse....oh yeah!

 

[FieryFurnace]

I began to wonder how so many dudes are part of Apple's Developer Connection,...

 

[KingYaba]

Just ignore the threads if it bothers you.

 

[Jethryn Freyman]

I think people should stop jumping to the conclusion that what a user has done is piracy (question about bittorrent are a good example.) Unless the poster specifically mentions that they pirated it, it should be assumed that they've done it legally.

 

[AppleMatt]

In general, DON'T TELL US YOU INSTALLED ILLEGAL SOFTWARE.

Seriously.

This argument pops up about the same time every year - after builds of OS X are leaked - and the hypocrisy of it never ceases to amaze me.

Macrumors consistently links to and has own-brand features on, for example, the next-gen OS X/iPhone/Apple TV/etc. These include screenshots of said software, photos of hardware, mockups etc, usually unreleased to the public at all. All of these are in violation of EULA's, Developer NDA's and contracts of employment.

These "illegal" acts are ok (presumably because they serve a purpose to you), but someone installing a developer preview is not (presumably as it serves you no purpose)? Where's the line! As someone else said above, just ignore them.

If you really can't ignore them, because it offends your sensibilities to even read about "illegal" activities, then you need to consider why exactly you're here. Not only are you willing to enjoy articles on unreleased products, you're ignoring the fact that these 'leaks' are potentially a lot more damaging than someone who's just poking around a publicly-announced and reported on developer preview, distributed to anyone who coughed up enough for a WWDC ticket.

I'd love to know why it irritates/offends you?

AppleMatt

 

[Andrew Henry]

This argument pops up about the same time every year - after builds of OS X are leaked - and the hypocrisy of it never ceases to amaze me.

Macrumors consistently links to and has own-brand features on, for example, the next-gen OS X/iPhone/Apple TV/etc. These include screenshots of said software, photos of hardware, mockups etc, usually unreleased to the public at all. All of these are in violation of EULA's, Developer NDA's and contracts of employment.

These "illegal" acts are ok (presumably because they serve a purpose to you), but someone installing a developer preview is not (presumably as it serves you no purpose)? Where's the line! As someone else said above, just ignore them.

If you really can't ignore them, because it offends your sensibilities to even read about "illegal" activities, then you need to consider why exactly you're here. Not only are you willing to enjoy articles on unreleased products, you're ignoring the fact that these 'leaks' are potentially a lot more damaging than someone who's just poking around a publicly-announced and reported on developer preview, distributed to anyone who coughed up enough for a WWDC ticket.

I'd love to know why it irritates/offends you?

AppleMatt

You just saved me a lot of typing. Thank you.

 

[FSMBP]

I concur with the OP. My reason is the boards are flooding with "Help I screwed my Mac up with 10.6".

I've seen legit posts about other software problems but are buried under 10.6 threads that ask "How do you burn SnowLeopard onto a disc".

However, this board does display pure hypocrisy with iPhone OS "hacks" and jailbraking/unlocking threads.

Still, Mac OS X thread should stop with a flooding of people, who clearly aren't developers, asking questions about it.

 

[vansouza]

I concur with the OP. My reason is the boards are flooding with "Help I screwed my Mac up with 10.6".

I've seen legit posts about other software problems but are buried under 10.6 threads that ask "How do you burn SnowLeopard onto a disc".

However, this board does display pure hypocrisy with iPhone OS "hacks" and jailbraking/unlocking threads.

Still, Mac OS X thread should stop with a flooding of people, who clearly aren't developers, asking questions about it.

And I agree with you and the OP.

 

[Mal]

A lot of typing.

You just saved me a lot of typing. Thank you.

One big difference here is that the SL threads (people who have installed it illegally and are looking for help or complaining) are against the forum rules. Posting information about items under NDA is not. Now, both are technically illegal, though not exactly the same. One is a breach of contract, while the other is copyright infringement among other things. Both may be wrong, but you're right, the general community feels it benefits from those who post information under NDA while it doesn't benefit from idiots installing illegal software. That actually, ironically, is the key. It doesn't benefit me, nor anyone else here, and it's against the rules. I have a hard time seeing why you're defending them.

jW

 

[turkay]

Hey Mal, i'm totally on your side but don't you think whether telling someone what to post or not is moderators' job?

 

[uberamd]

OP... seriously? Did you know even talking about 3.0 beta on here is grounds for removal from the ADC? 3.0 is confidential, and posting screenshots of it is against the NDA for 3.0, yet it happens here... ALL THE TIME. I was smart and decided it wasn't worth losing my ADC membership, however the fact that you get on a soapbox and preach about it when it happens everywhere is pointless.

 

[kolax]

To discuss AppleMatt's opinion:

There's people who provide information to us: they might have found something in Snow Leopard, discovered a new feature, discovered something new, discovered a huge change (i.e. Base 10 Counting) and want to share to the community.

Then there's people who demand help with Snow Leopard, whether it be how to install it, how to obtain it, their personal opinion/review of it etc etc.

We're fine with you providing information, screen shots. But if you are just going to ask for help on how to install Snow Leopard or anything similar, then ask elsewhere..

There's too many threads with people asking how to install it, how buggy it is, asking what applications run on it etc. We don't care about that.. we just care about new features someone has found.. information..

That's the line.

 

[AppleMatt]

One big difference here is that the SL threads (people who have installed it illegally and are looking for help or complaining) are against the forum rules. Posting information about items under NDA is not. Now, both are technically illegal, though not exactly the same. One is a breach of contract, while the other is copyright infringement among other things. Both may be wrong, but you're right, the general community feels it benefits from those who post information under NDA while it doesn't benefit from idiots installing illegal software. That actually, ironically, is the key. It doesn't benefit me, nor anyone else here, and it's against the rules. I have a hard time seeing why you're defending them.

jW

Who said I was defending them? I agree it's against the rules and therefore mods can go wild deleting what they want, if they want. Especially so if the floods of threads obscure other legitimate discussions. I've no issue here.

But your argument pushed it further to pointing out it was "illegal", and you "seriously" didn't want to hear about such activities. I found this amusing as most everything discussed here is unlawful in some sense. The hypocrisy of that is what I was highlighting, not giving my moral opinion on it*.

Balancing the moral arguments: One is playing around in your bedroom with software that is otherwise freely available from Apple (if you pay for it). The other is leaking confidential information that constitutes the most valuable asset to a public company today - IP, having a potentially global impact. I just think it takes away any leg for us to stand on when berating someone for playing with the very same software we're reading about, as our actions are arguably far, far worse and our mere presence here fuels that 'crime'.

To discuss AppleMatt's opinion:

etc.

I think perhaps this is the most astute analysis of it, and in-fact a reasonable viewpoint which I could easily align with (seeing as I am an active member here, I do view new information as valuable, and certainly more valuable than requests for help). As I said above however, I wasn't actually expressing an opinion either-way, I was just pointing out that it irritates me when people qualify their argument by saying it's "illegal". Of course I'd also much rather read new information over 'what do I do when', but that's not what I was saying.

That said, if there wasn't annoying threads about this it would be about something else. How many times do you read 'use the search'?! Just seems like you could get caught up fighting a loosing battle, as every time something new happens there's a new batch who don't read the rules. So personally, I just skip past them if I'm not interested or read them if I am - I see no point, and probably couldn't, get worked up about it.

AppleMatt
*Which is this: Personally, if someone wants to play around with Snow Leopard and gets unstuck I've nothing against that - it's absolutely harmless fun, and arguably a driver of progress. Equally if someone can solve their problem by saying 'run sudo...' then great, everyone learns a bit. If mods want to delete it, that's fine too, as it's in the rules they agreed to when the signed up.