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Doomed NVidia 8600 MBP: sell it fast?

Phrasikleia

Phrasikleia

macrumors 601
Original poster
Feb 24, 2008
4,082
403
Over there------->
I've been researching this issue quite a bit, and it seems that the Inquirer article is probably right. All of the Early 2008 MBPs are doomed to a relatively short life. It takes about a year for the average 8600 GT to fail, and if you don't do a lot of work that causes temperature swings, it could last just long enough to fail after the 2-year warranty has expired.

I still have 1.5 years left on Apple's newly extended GPU warranty. So far my MBP is not showing any symptoms (it does have the vertical stripes problem, but that's another issue).

What should I do? Should I take it in and see if Apple might just replace the GPU anyway? Should I try to sell the thing now, hoping that the buyer won't care as much as I do about the GPU being doomed? Should I just risk having to pay for a very expensive repair in 18 months or so?
 
If you search you will find multiple threads on this.

That aside, there's an old saying:

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
 
I did search the threads here on this issue and was surprised to find so little discussion about what to do now that Apple has acknowledged the issue. Seems like people either want to rant about how the value of their AppleCare got diminished or rant about Apple in general (particularly if their machine did in fact fail). But what about those of us with no symptoms? How does this problem really affect resale value? I'm not seeing any pointed discussion about moving forward for those of us who do not yet have the problem.

ayeying said:
last time i checked, failure rate isn't 100%
Click to expand...

Apparently the problem is 100%, but machines that don't go through a lot of temperature swings will take longer to fail. Some fail in a few months, most after about a year, but since none of them are much older than a year old, it's impossible to say what the best case scenario might be. Seems unlikely to expect any of these machines to last a good, long life. I'd like mine to last a total of five years. My TiBook served me for six.
 
Phrasikleia said:
I've been researching this issue quite a bit, and it seems that the Inquirer article is probably right. All of the Early 2008 MBPs are doomed to a relatively short life. It takes about a year for the average 8600 GT to fail, and if you don't do a lot of work that causes temperature swings, it could last just long enough to fail after the 2-year warranty has expired.

I still have 1.5 years left on Apple's newly extended GPU warranty. So far my MBP is not showing any symptoms (it does have the vertical stripes problem, but that's another issue).

What should I do? Should I take it in and see if Apple might just replace the GPU anyway? Should I try to sell the thing now, hoping that the buyer won't care as much as I do about the GPU being doomed? Should I just risk having to pay for a very expensive repair in 18 months or so?
Click to expand...

Here's something for you to think about...

I have owned my MBP 2.2SR since launch day 2007. I've encounter numerous problems mostly because the fans broke, dvd drive ceased to burn and hard-drive crashed but non with the actual logic-board or the video chip. This machine is constantly on (more then the MP), it never sleeps and it's never off (at night the TFT acts like a side lamp) and till this date the so called doomed 8600M GT is still working like it was on the first day!! Motion runs slowly but it works and renders stuff on a nightly bases. Once more, I don't have AppleCare and the system is long outta warranty... and you know? I'm planning on keeping it - it's a great work horse and it's cheap to run!!

Though I'm thinking of buying the current MBP 17 cause I'd like a Matte display before they vanish for good!
 
UltraNEO* said:
Here's something for you to think about...

I have owned my MBP 2.2SR since launch day 2007. I've encounter numerous problems mostly because the fans broke, dvd drive ceased to burn and hard-drive crashed but non with the actual logic-board or the video chip. This machine is constantly on (more then the MP), it never sleeps and it's never off (at night the TFT acts like a side lamp) and till this date the so called doomed 8600M GT is still working like it was on the first day!! Motion runs slowly but it works and renders stuff on a nightly bases. Once more, I don't have AppleCare and the system is long outta warranty... and you know? I'm planning on keeping it - it's a great work horse and it's cheap to run!!

Though I'm thinking of buying the current MBP 17 cause I'd like a Matte display before they vanish for good!
Click to expand...

Thanks for your thoughts, UltraNEO*. Your usage sounds just like the best case scenario, since you're minimizing temperature swings by not letting the machine get completely cold (i.e. you never let it sleep or turn off). I must say your optimism is encouraging, though. I really love my Penryn MBP and sure as heck don't want a new glossy MacBook Bling.
 
Phrasikleia said:
Thanks for your thoughts, UltraNEO*. Your usage sounds just like the best case scenario, since you're minimizing temperature swings by not letting the machine get completely cold (i.e. you never let it sleep or turn off). I must say your optimism is encouraging, though. I really love my Penryn MBP and sure as heck don't want a new glossy MacBook Bling.
Click to expand...

Having said that, I do sleep the machine on occasions and restart it whenever there are patches or updates.
I've had temperatures in the case exceeding 100°C those are well documented on this forum, various screenshots are posted on my flickr, and as you see, it's still ticking...

Personally, I think you should try to enjoy the machine while you have it. Apple said they'll replace the failed product upto two years blah...
Now, I'm assuming that's after your AppleCare has expired, giving a total of five years!! If your in the UK, the UK law states a manufacturer
are responsible for the system for up to six years...

Which is more then enough time for each owner to move on to a newer possibly better system. For me, I usually keep them for about three-fours years.. after which it's too slow...
 
Phrasikleia said:
Apparently the problem is 100%, but machines that don't go through a lot of temperature swings will take longer to fail. Some fail in a few months, most after about a year, but since none of them are much older than a year old, it's impossible to say what the best case scenario might be. Seems unlikely to expect any of these machines to last a good, long life. I'd like mine to last a total of five years. My TiBook served me for six.
Click to expand...

But I don't see every MacBook Pro user having a failure in their system after 1-2 years.. I know there's a lot of failures but its not 100% owners will have a problem of a bad GPU.

You'd think my GPU being constantly going up and down from 60 deg C to 100 deg C and down and up, the probability of failure would be extremely fast yet I have experienced no symptoms whatsoever through constant use.
 
UltraNEO* said:
Apple said they'll replace the failed product upto two years blah...
Now, I'm assuming that's after your AppleCare has expired, giving a total of five years!! If your in the UK, the UK law states a manufacturer
are responsible for the system for up to six years...
Click to expand...

No, it's two years after the date of manufacture. So people with AppleCare have a total of three years. I'm not paying $240 to get an extra year, so I have about 18 months left.

I'm not in the UK, and I'll be impressed if Apple fixes these problems free of charge for UK customers 5-6 years from now. In fact, on the Apple Discussions regarding this problem, someone just posted that Apple just charged him over 600 GBP to do the repair now!
 
Here are the relevant bits from that Inquirer article:

The short story is that all the G84 and G86 parts are bad. Period. No exceptions. All of them, mobile and desktop, use the exact same ASIC, so expect them to go south in inordinate numbers as well. ...

Failures occur due to heat cycling, cold -> hot -> cold for the non-engineers out there. If you remember, we said all G84s and G86s are affected, and all are the same ASIC, so why aren't the desktop parts dying? They are, you are just low enough on the bell curve that you don't see it in number that set off alarm bells publicly yet.

Laptops get turned on and off many times in a day, and due to the power management, throttle down much more than desktops. This has them going through the heat cycle multiple times in a day, whereas desktops typically get turned on and off once a day, sometimes left on for weeks at a time. Failures like this are typically on a bell curve, so they start out slow, build up, then tail off.

Since laptops and desktops have a different "customer use patterns", they are at different points on the bell curve. Laptops have got to the, "we can't bury this anymore" point, desktops haven't, but they will - guaranteed. The biggest question is whether or not they will be under warranty at that point, not whether or not they are defective. They are.
Click to expand...
 
I don't have AppleCare on it but i do have Insurance for my Camera kit and laptop.

The policy covers me internationally for hardware malfunction, accidental damages, water damage, fire, theft and lost. Because I travel so much, it's nice to know when I need to make a claim, a replacement will be sent within a week, but it comes at a high cost. The AppleCare is very cheap in comparison but that doesn't cover my camera equipment and lenses.
 
OP, this situation has come to my attention because I bought at Apple online one of these with the 8600, thinking I was getting a matte screen at a good price.

And then I read about the failure problem. It is running around 28% failure on a tech poll site now. Of course, many users don't know about that poll, so it isn't as accurate as if Apple would admit the numbers to us.

My refurb will come tomorrow and it's going back. I don't want to invest $2000 on a gamble. I'm with you, the more I researched, the more the experts said that they are going to fail. Many of these machines are less than a year old, I guess most of them, so just give them time.

And I hate the idea of having to baby my new machine. It's like buying a sports car but being told not to race it.

Of your choices, I think talking to Apple is a good way to start.

If you end up selling, you have to disclose it. There are people who will just turn a blind eye. I hope all these people buying their refurbs and clearance machines are going to disclose when they sell, because even now, there are a lot of buyers who have no idea of this known issue. Apple sure isn't going to state it on their sale site.
 
bushbaby, could you provide a link to that poll? I'd be interested to see it. That's a high number considering that most of these GPUs are still much less than a year old. If the failure rate is up to 28% already, that does not bode well at all.

I'm curious to know what your solution will be beyond returning your refurb. Buy a new one with the 9600 chip in it? That's what I'm actually considering now, although I can't stand the thought of using that glossy screen.

I'm also not looking forward to selling my current MBP and hoping to get a good price for it. (By the way, I'd say disclosure is pretty much de facto at this point. All of the models of the "Early 2008" generation are affected, so there's no getting around that "selling point". Ugh. So yes of course, the buyer will know and I can only hope that they're more willing to take the gamble than I am.)
 
I was wondering if anyone here knows if the early 2007 models are affected by the faulty GPU issue? bought my MBP on day of launch 6-07 and so far have not had a single issue with the machine whatsoever. It has been flawless since day one in every respect so I felt I was pretty lucky getting a good machine before I found out about the whole Nvidia issue a short while back. Anyway I am really curious if mine is also affected or not. Is it possible I got an early good one prior to the issue or was each and every 8600m ever produced faulty?
 
I've got a mid-2007 SR MBP 2.2ghz 15.4" and so far not a single issue. I do let it sleep at night, and when I toss it in the backpack each day, sometimes shut it down, basically I just use it however I want to. I don't baby it.

The one thing I did do was install SmcFanControl. I sit here keeping an eye on my cpu/gpu core temps, and they seldom rise above 120F (currently at 106F, been on all day and night so far) without bumping me bumping the fan speed 500 or 1000 rpm. Typically, I've set the fans to run at 2500 rpm - I can't hear them (unless I really try..) and they keep things nice and steady tempwise. Also, I'm pretty careful about not setting my machine on anything soft or clothlike to avoid covering the vents. Also, I don't ever run it with something like InsomniaX to keep it from sleeping, and then close the lid. That would probably cook it.

So my deal is keeping the temp low, and more or less avoid the extremes - keep it steady. It's easy to do, and I don't even think about it. I'm not worried about my GPU failing, and if it does I'll deal with it. So far, nothing is sending up red flags.
 
Phrasikleia said:
Your usage sounds just like the best case scenario, since you're minimizing temperature swings by not letting the machine get completely cold (i.e. you never let it sleep or turn off).
Click to expand...

Then no answer will make you completely happy.

Just because a computer is on doesn't mean the video card is running at full bore at all times. There are obviously temperature swings, particularly for someone who heavily taxes their graphics card's capabilities one minute, and doesn't the next.

I can't guarantee that your MBP won't break down tomorrow, but this is the first pre-emptive complaint I've seen in awhile. Just get it fixed "if" your computer malfunctions. Until then, enjoy it.
 
I don't feel that I have the luxury of doing nothing.

If it fails during warranty, I'll be seriously inconvenienced, especially if it happens while I'm abroad (which is often). Presumably, Apple will fix it, but there are reports of people who have been denied the repair on the grounds that something other than the GPU is to blame.

If it fails outside of its warranty, I'll be seriously inconvenienced and out a whole lot of money.

The latter possibility really troubles me. So I've made an appointment with a Genius Bar for Saturday to see if they'll replace it now, even though it has no symptoms.

If they won't replace it, I'm inclined to sell it. I'm not sure what I'll replace it with, though. I'm underwhelmed by the new MBP but am heavily invested in Apple software. :::::sigh:::::
 
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