DVDSP disc size issue

[cwright]

I'm working on a DVD Studio Pro project with a very long video (2 hrs, 40 min), so I need to make the most of my disc space to make it all fit on the disc with the best possible bitrate (I can't go dual layer or 2 disc set on this project).

So... I encoded it once with the following settings:
2-Pass VBR 3.0–5.0 Mbps
128 kbps AC3 audio

The estimated disc size in DVDSP shows 3.8 GB, but when I go to build and burn (or format) the disc, I get an error saying that it's ~430 MB too large for the output media. Now, I know that it's an estimate, but in the past it's usually been higher than the outcome, with the final disc image size being a couple hundred megabytes less. In this case, it's over a half gigabyte off, and not in my favor.

Any ideas on how to fix this? 3.0 Mbps is already really low so I can't really afford to encode at a lower bitrate. Are there any (free) MPEG 2 encoders that will do a better job than DVDSP/Compressor?

Thanks

 

[LethalWolfe]

Are you including the audio and the video in the size estimation? Don't forget that your menu's take up space too (not really a big deal unless you are using motion menus and/or music).


Lethal

 

[cwright]

Yea, the estimate includes the audio, which is only 144mb when encoded to AC3 format.

The menus are not an issue, because I'm only using still images–no motion or sound.

 

[cwright]

Ok, something's not right.

I re-encoded the entire video at:
2-Pass VBR 2.7–5.0 Mbps
128 kbps AC3 audio

This dropped the estimate to 3.4 GB, but when I burn the DVD I still get an error saying the disk image is too big for a DVD (by 462 Mb this time, it was 472 Mb before... a very small difference for dropping the bitrate on such a long video!).

I'm pretty much convinced that I will be forced to split this up and do a 2-disc set, but I still want to know what's going on!

 

[Sharewaredemon]

Check the size of the video TS folder. I found out recently that DSP was lying to me about project size.

 

[Keebler]

cwright, i would 100% split this disc if it's for a paying customer or for anyone whom you don't want to be disappointed in wrt to the quality. 2.7 - 5 is low. i always shoot for 5 - 6.5 (anything more and dvd players seem to have a problem with bitrates even thought their limit is supposedly 9). i also use ac3 192 for sound.

if it's a paying client, you simply tell them you don't like to sacrifice quality just to fit on 1 disc. they should understand that easily enough. they may say go for dual layer discs, but their compatibility with different dvd player isn't as strong and they are more expensive to buy. maybe not that much more, but there is a reason why they are not as prevalent.

find a spot near the 1 hour 20 min mark that is appropriate to split and make 2 files.

in SP, make your 1st shell, label it 'disc 1' & then save that file. then change the label to disc 2 and rename that file to #2. saves you work from having to duplicate and your DVDs will be identical save the content (and maybe chapter titles).

 

[cwright]

Well, I reluctantly split the project into 2 discs, but I'm glad I did.

It was a video of a long play with an intermission, so it already had a good break point. I ended up encoding 5.0–7.5 VBR with 320kbps AC3 audio, and still had some room to spare on each disc. Looks great too!

Thanks for the help.

 

[bigbossbmb]

if it is a paying customer, then why not make it a DL DVD? I've found that people paying for a DVD would much rather pay the extra dollar or so for a single DL disc than 2 single layer discs.

 

[cwright]

Well, this particular job wasn't really a paying customer. It was a high school play that my little brother was in, and my mother wanted a video (I have produced videos of many performances before in this school district). The school generally has no budget for this kind of work, and the play was copyrighted (The Grapes of Wrath), so I couldn't sell copies. I agreed to just shoot and edit and make 20 copies for the director to give to the parents for a flat fee of $200. So, it was more of a favor than anything.

But other than that...

Dual layer DVDs aren't generally as reliable in most DVD players, they cost much more, and they aren't available in inkjet hub-printable discs yet (or at least, not that I can find).

And, I already had the 40 printable DVDs that I needed. No reason to spend more on materials if they aren't willing to pay me for it.

 

[bigbossbmb]

the cost thing isn't ever an issue when doing a paying job as the difference between one DL disc and two single layer discs is about one dollar...

as for DL discs not beeing as compatible? no way, the vast majority of Hollywood DVD's are DL (I'd say over 90%).

In this situation, I can see you going either way. It isn't really a high paying job and making 20 copies is a significant difference in price. Although, next time if you know it is more than two hours, let the person know the delivery options (a bunch of single layer discs or the video on DL discs for $20)

 

[Bakey]

the cost thing isn't ever an issue when doing a paying job as the difference between one DL disc and two single layer discs is about one dollar...

as for DL discs not beeing as compatible? no way, the vast majority of Hollywood DVD's are DL (I'd say over 90%).

In this situation, I can see you going either way. It isn't really a high paying job and making 20 copies is a significant difference in price. Although, next time if you know it is more than two hours, let the person know the delivery options (a bunch of single layer discs or the video on DL discs for $20)

Without a doubt dual-layer +/- R discs are not as compatiable in domestic players as single-layer +/- R discs.

When it comes to authoring for anything above DVD5 I would recommend the glass master and replication route rather than straight forward duplication.

 

[cwright]

as for DL discs not beeing as compatible? no way, the vast majority of Hollywood DVD's are DL (I'd say over 90%).

Those dual-layer Hollywood movies are pressed from a glass master. It's very different from recordable dual layer discs that consumers can buy, and the recordable ones definitely are much less reliable.

When it comes to authoring for anything above DVD5 I would recommend the glass master and replication route rather than straight forward duplication.

Of course, glass master replicas are preferred, but it is simply not an option unless you are making about 500 copies. Most replication services actually require about 1,000 copies to make a glass master.

Like I said, it was more of a favor. I probably should have charged more, but I'm not complaining. I was just looking to see if there were any possible ways to cram that video onto a single disc without sacrificing too much quality. Obviously, that's not possible.

 

[Bakey]

Those dual-layer Hollywood movies are pressed from a glass master. It's very different from recordable dual layer discs that consumers can buy, and the recordable ones definitely are much less reliable.


Of course, glass master replicas are preferred, but it is simply not an option unless you are making about 500 copies. Most replication services actually require about 1,000 copies to make a glass master.

Like I said, it was more of a favor. I probably should have charged more, but I'm not complaining. I was just looking to see if there were any possible ways to cram that video onto a single disc without sacrificing too much quality. Obviously, that's not possible.

I appreciate you're obviously aware that glass mastering is preferred, but if you've no budget then it's no way! And besides which the forum acts as an information resource, so if somebody else has a similar issue in the future then they can search and locate this thread [for example].

You've obviously looked into the likes of Popcorn, etc., to re-compress a 9 down to 5. Other than that, seriously look into the bit-rates of your footage... Even then it's not necessarily going to achieve what you're after!

Keep us posted with your end result! ;-)