eBay Problem (UK)

[Shaun.P]

Hello all,

I was wondering if I could get some advice about a simple problem that has occurred to me via eBay.

I sold two 16GB HP Flash Drives to a gentleman for £35.90 on eBay (buy it now). I had four listed, but the two he bought were the only ones sold, so after the auction I offered him the other two 16GB sticks for a combined £30 as it would save me money on relisting the other two memory sticks and it would also save me money on posting to different addresses and so on.

So he sent payment via PayPal for the £35.90 and then a further £30.00 to my PayPal account.

I posted the four memory sticks to his PayPal address using Royal Mail First Class Recorded (as to obtain a tracking number) on the 28th of May (11 days ago) and they still have not arrived to his address. I can confirm that they have not reached his address by checking the tracking number online - so I know the buyer is not lying. I have proof of posting (my tracking number receipt and my receipt for using my debit card) so I have proof I posted the item to his PayPal verified address.

The buyer is starting to lose patience and has checked his local Royal Mail sorting office (by my instruction) and the item was not there either. I said that we should wait until Friday to give it a bit longer to see if the package turns up at his address. I doubt it will considering First Class normally only takes 2-3 days.

My question is this: this is undoubtedly going to turn into a PayPal/eBay dispute. Where do I stand in this situation? Am I obliged to give him a refund? Do I make a claim through RoyalMail? Does he? Items sent First Class are covered for £39.00 but do you get this from Royal Mail in the form of stamps? The buyer will not be covered for the additional £30.00 that he sent me, will he?

Any assistance will be greatly appreciated. In all my years on eBay I've never had a lost item.

 

[v66jack]

I'm lucky enough to never had an item not arrive at the buyers door, but this is what I'd do. I your a business then your feedback reputation is invaluable and for the sake of £50 not worth messing up. Bad feedback can have very negative effects.

Therefore I would send the buyer the tracking number so they can see for themselves that you have posted the item, then offer a refund or to post replacement items out immediately and keep apologising. This should keep the buyer happy and there should be no reason for bad feedback to be left.

Once the buyer has their money back or replacement items take it up with Royal Mail, if your only covered to £39 then I guess thats all you get back. But don't get the buyer involved in the dealings with Royal Mail.

If your a private seller and feedback isn't all that important then you may want to get the buyer more involved in the dispute with Royal Mail so at least they know your doing something to get the problem sorted.

Just my thoughts on what I'd do in your situation.
Hope it helps. Also I think eBay have some seller forums, so your probably better posting the question on there.

 

[ethical]

Present the proof of postage....but chances are you'll have to give him a refund.

Royal Mail will send you a cheque. Pretty sure that's what they did for me when they lost something. (was a £500 cheque )

 

[Shaun.P]

I'm a small-time eBay user. My feedback is 112 and I've been using eBay for 7 years.

I'm not in a position to refund him because I'm not exactly in a good monetary position - hence why I sold the flash-drives in the first place.

After checking the Royal Mail website I see that they do not consider an item lost until 15 working days has elapsed. That would take us to the 18th of June. So I have asked the buyer to wait until then as the item could very well still show up.

If this proceeded to a PayPal dispute what would happen?

Postal insurance was not offered in this transaction - merely a first class recorded delivery service. This service was provided for free to the buyer.

 

[v66jack]

In my experience not with lost items but other things PayPal takes forever to do anything. My advice would be to get all your money out of your PayPal account because if they suspect you of conning this guy that'll be frozen for months. If it were me I'd avoid going down the PayPal route if you can. Maybe try the ebay resolution centre.

Here's a link to the eBay member help pages where you can ask other members: http://pages.ebay.com/community/answercenter/index.html

Hope this helps

 

[Thomas Harte]

Legally speaking the default position would be that he has a contract with you so if the items don't turn up then you owe him damages.

You have a contract with the Royal Mail. So, on the facts, whatever loss you suffer should then be owed to you by the Royal Mail.

So the default position would be that he has a legal right to claim from you and you have a legal right to claim from the Royal Mail.

It's possible that eBay have implicitly or explicitly varied the default position by setting things up so that the buyer explicitly accepts that recorded delivery is the means of delivering the items. There's always a theoretical question of timing in contracts* and it's possible that per the eBay contract, since he agreed to the delivery mechanism all you needed to do was put the item in the post. And you have evidence that you did that. Assuming you claim the money back once the Royal Mail will supply it, you then wouldn't be at fault until you had the money and failed to hand it over.

* e.g. you go to a fish and chip shop and order chips. So that's a contract of sale you've offered the owner. But technically he isn't required to hand over the chips until you've given him the money and you aren't required to give him the money until he's handed over the chips. So there's an implicit need for everyone to be a bit grown up and apply slight leeway in timing.

That all being said, courts generally look dimly on people that waste court time with unnecessary or petty litigation and specifically don't want to be dealing with people who can't be bothered to wait a few days so that everything resolves itself neatly. And that general requirement to be sensible bubbles up to real life.

If you act reasonably then you shouldn't have any problems given that you aren't in the wrong. And especially given the timing issue (ie, you'll be able to claim next week) there's no practical way he can get you into a position where you're compelled to pay before you can claim, even if he is legally able to say that the Royal Mail issues don't affect his side of the contract.

 

[niuniu]

Legally speaking the default position would be that he has a contract with you so if the items don't turn up then you owe him damages.

I don't think you'd owe him damages. A refund yeah, but not damages..

I'm still waiting on a cheque from RM over a lost tracked package to the States from a claim months ago. Similar situation as yours OP, I lost when I tried to dispute it as I had the tracking info showing the package still in transit.