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Ecosystem’s?
- Thread starter macher
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To me, the ecosystem is how everything works together (for instance, iMessage, Handoff, Photo Stream, notes sync, universal clipboard, iCloud, etc).
In addition to that, it also includes the apps purchased on the platform - that will work with the other devices.
If I had to switch to another smartphone platform, I would need to migrate my data and buy new applications again.
I, too, consider the iPhone to be the best smartphone on the market - in terms of support, security and this 'work together' ecosystem. (though I am quite unhappy with the declining quality of the software - iOS 11.x)
In addition to that, it also includes the apps purchased on the platform - that will work with the other devices.
If I had to switch to another smartphone platform, I would need to migrate my data and buy new applications again.
I, too, consider the iPhone to be the best smartphone on the market - in terms of support, security and this 'work together' ecosystem. (though I am quite unhappy with the declining quality of the software - iOS 11.x)
That's because it questions one of the sacred tenets preached from Apple marketing.From the title to the posts, this thread is a little confusing--
I guess I just don't understand the actual question. But, if it is who has the better ecosystem. I am going with Apple. Owned both for many years and iOS has been great for all the family. From iMessages to Notes. All linked together from our iPhones, Macs and iPads. Been off Android for 4.5 years, so don't now if it is any better.
I use a Windows 10 PC and have an iPhone, Apple Watch, and iPad. I love the integration of all those devices.
I think the question should be what importance do you put on security? No one except for Google-branded products supports their products for as long as Apple. I have a Google Nexus 10 from 2013 that is finally ending support. Samsung may give you one OS update and security patches for two years. Maybe. Apple - my iOS devices have gotten 5+ years of OS and security updates. It was disheartening when the iPad 3 support finally got cutoff, but it had a good run.
For that reason alone I buy Apple products.
I think the question should be what importance do you put on security? No one except for Google-branded products supports their products for as long as Apple. I have a Google Nexus 10 from 2013 that is finally ending support. Samsung may give you one OS update and security patches for two years. Maybe. Apple - my iOS devices have gotten 5+ years of OS and security updates. It was disheartening when the iPad 3 support finally got cutoff, but it had a good run.
For that reason alone I buy Apple products.
To me, yeah. Overrated thanks to Apple forcing you to use proprietary software and services like iTunes, iMessages, and iCloud.
Some bored fanboys probably kept kissing Apple's butt way, way back when the iPod was the primary music player for many. Then this "ecosystem" came about once iTunes became the way to combat Napster or whatever.
So people ended up buying stuff online using an iTunes account. It became like a Gmail account with a credit card. Then App Store came out in 2008 and locked in people even more. Then iMessages and iCloud by 2011.
Back in the 1990's, the term ecosystem for tech didn't exist yet. I knew that term from biology class. I understand people wanting to be part of this ecosystem. This walled garden. This sandbox. This gated community.
For billions of us, we don't care. Microsoft survived without one. It's just a bs term to write fluff pieces for Apple.
Some bored fanboys probably kept kissing Apple's butt way, way back when the iPod was the primary music player for many. Then this "ecosystem" came about once iTunes became the way to combat Napster or whatever.
So people ended up buying stuff online using an iTunes account. It became like a Gmail account with a credit card. Then App Store came out in 2008 and locked in people even more. Then iMessages and iCloud by 2011.
Back in the 1990's, the term ecosystem for tech didn't exist yet. I knew that term from biology class. I understand people wanting to be part of this ecosystem. This walled garden. This sandbox. This gated community.
For billions of us, we don't care. Microsoft survived without one. It's just a bs term to write fluff pieces for Apple.
I have to agree but not that harsh. Like I said I defended Apple because of the ecosystem. But what’s funny I don’t concern myself with the ecosystem or care about it. Was I brainwashed? Don’t know. At work we don’t have Mac’s and everybody has work iPhones.
The reason I’ve always bought iPhones is because I think they are the best smartphones on the market not because of the ecosystem. I’m pretty sure most who get iPhones get it because of it being a smartphone and don’t even care about the ecosystem.
There's two version os what "ecosystem" means. One is more general, meaning all the third-party support and software available for the system. The other is the Apple iCloud integration aspect.
From the first definition, I think that the iPhone has more support than Android, partly because there is only one source of the phones, so the number of models is less and its easy for third-parties to focus on them for products. In general it seems like there are more iPhone accessories than for Android, but I do have less exposure to Android accessories, not having one.
For the second definition, I do use the iCloud stuff a bit, but not heavily. I share my contacts and calendars and music, but I don't do a lot of document sharing, though potentially I could in the future. The convenience of that is nice for me, but I don't think you *have* to use that type of thing (illustrated by my only light use of it).
I do think the iPhone is better than Android phones, for some of the reasons others mentioned above, but also the software is mostly easier to use. And if you are trying to compare "iPhone" to "Android", there are a lot of crappy Android phones out there. The S8 may be nice in terms of hardware (I don't really know), but the software might hold it back. Beyond that, I have definitely seen terrible quality photos posted from cheap Android phones.
From the first definition, I think that the iPhone has more support than Android, partly because there is only one source of the phones, so the number of models is less and its easy for third-parties to focus on them for products. In general it seems like there are more iPhone accessories than for Android, but I do have less exposure to Android accessories, not having one.
For the second definition, I do use the iCloud stuff a bit, but not heavily. I share my contacts and calendars and music, but I don't do a lot of document sharing, though potentially I could in the future. The convenience of that is nice for me, but I don't think you *have* to use that type of thing (illustrated by my only light use of it).
I do think the iPhone is better than Android phones, for some of the reasons others mentioned above, but also the software is mostly easier to use. And if you are trying to compare "iPhone" to "Android", there are a lot of crappy Android phones out there. The S8 may be nice in terms of hardware (I don't really know), but the software might hold it back. Beyond that, I have definitely seen terrible quality photos posted from cheap Android phones.
Back in 2000 when physical media still mattered, nobody in tech talked about an ecosystem. Napster was all the rage. Did Microsoft have an ecosystem? Did Sony? Did Nintendo? Even Google's ecosystem now seems vague since it isn't mandatory to use their apps and services with their products.
I didn't really hear about an ecosystem until bored bloggers made it into a narrative right before iPhone was announced. So halo effect and ecosystem became their "narrative" just like circa 2008-2011, these writers would search for the iPhone-killer.
Tech is like sports. Vaporware (fake news), hype, and to create narratives. Twenty years ago, Apple was a joke. With the iPod in 2001, Apple became chic (sheek) and they were able to turn their fortunes with help of people who kept bragging about the iPod and how iTunes can now work on Windows (2003).
Then iTunes was able to sell TV shows to us by 2005 once iPod video (5th gen) was released. I could backtrack everything because Apple was getting bigger pre-iPhone but not quite as back like it is now. I used to lurk this forum circa 2004 when iPods was mostly the talk over Macs.
2003-2006 was the turning point for Apple. Then by 2007, they created the most popular product of all-time that brought them to a much higher stratosphere. Ecosystems and halo effect are just bs terms to generate hype like Retina Display.
Narratives like Apple's prodigal son returning in what would be the greatest comeback story in tech ever. Hype and narratives. Ecosystem is some sort of badge of honor for Apple when fans are needed to defend them.
I didn't really hear about an ecosystem until bored bloggers made it into a narrative right before iPhone was announced. So halo effect and ecosystem became their "narrative" just like circa 2008-2011, these writers would search for the iPhone-killer.
Tech is like sports. Vaporware (fake news), hype, and to create narratives. Twenty years ago, Apple was a joke. With the iPod in 2001, Apple became chic (sheek) and they were able to turn their fortunes with help of people who kept bragging about the iPod and how iTunes can now work on Windows (2003).
Then iTunes was able to sell TV shows to us by 2005 once iPod video (5th gen) was released. I could backtrack everything because Apple was getting bigger pre-iPhone but not quite as back like it is now. I used to lurk this forum circa 2004 when iPods was mostly the talk over Macs.
2003-2006 was the turning point for Apple. Then by 2007, they created the most popular product of all-time that brought them to a much higher stratosphere. Ecosystems and halo effect are just bs terms to generate hype like Retina Display.
Narratives like Apple's prodigal son returning in what would be the greatest comeback story in tech ever. Hype and narratives. Ecosystem is some sort of badge of honor for Apple when fans are needed to defend them.
Apple doesn’t force you to use iCloud and iMessages. In fact I only use iCloud for contacts and photos. I also use Google Photos. Actually iMessage in my opinion is the best messaging platform on the planet. Apple really nailed it with iMessage. Boggles my mind why Google can’t create a messenger similar to iMessage or they don’t care.
This is the argument with fan boys....
“There’s one thing that Android / Google doesn’t have Apple beat. It’s the ecosystem. Apple has designed all of it’s hardware and software to work together across all of it’s products. The iPhone might not be the best smartphone however you won’t find a smartphone with a better family of products such as the Apple Watch and iPad and Mac.
The optimization and continuity between Mac OS and iOS doesn’t come near the cross Apple product capabilities of Windows 10 and Android. Yes declare that the S8 or Note 8 is the better smartphone BUT they don’t have accessory partnering devices and hardware like the iPhone has.
In other words people get asked ‘what is your favorite Apple product?’ No one really asks what’s your favorite Samsung or Android product because everyone answers it’s the phone. Samsung is really good and better than Apple making smartphones but Apple is more consistent about all of their products.
The S8 makes me want to ditch my iPhone but the iPhone is part of a bigger family.”
The reason I buy iPhones isn’t cause of the ‘ecosystem’ because I don’t care if all my hardware works together. I buy iPhones mainly because of customer and product support that no other competitor offers. If something happens to my iPhone I can walk into an Apple store without a Genius appointment and get it checked out.
I did this a couple of months ago with my 7. My iPhone 7 wouldn’t charge and it eventually died on me at work. There’s an Apple store a couple minutes away and I went without an appointment and had to wait about 20 minutes which was ok. They ran some tests and I walked out with a ‘new’ replacement. No other smartphone competitor offers the superb customer and product support Apple does.
Yea in my opinion there are better smartphones out there than the iPhone. Again for me and I believe for the majority of average Joes it isn’t about the ecosystem, it’s about smartphone related. The iPhone is still a damn good device. I also think for a lot of people the iPhone is a status / fashion thing. Or it could be circa 2007 that has still existed.
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I permise of this thread makes no sense. It asks about the quality of the ecosystem than go to great lengths to bring up all the ways that the OP does not use anything but the phone. That's like saying "I have a Ferrari, but all I do is commute to work, I don't get the allure of the Ferrari". If you don't use the ecosystem, which includes everything - Devices, interoperability, App stores, App availability, accessories, etc, then by all means get the phone that makes you happy and go. I get tempted by the Android phones from time to time and have employees that like their Andriod stuff, but I find that they get enamored by features (like wireless charging) but fall out of love with them quickly because many of the features get rolled out half baked and then the platform moves on to the next buzzword feature and they never get to the point where they really work well.
iPod is the most important product ever released for Apple's current fortunes. iPhone is the most successful following the blueprint with software (and accounts) attached to it, sealed batteries, and no expandable storage. iTunes and the App Store is what tied it all together.
What many of those mp3 players lacked that wasn't an iPod was a online digital media store. Became the biggest music vendor. What smartphones lacked prior to iPhone was an app store. I personally don't like iTunes but understood its impact. Without it, there would be no ecosystem. The iPod would just be another Walkman for mp3.
The Apple ID accounts are the ball & chain. The App Store inspired the Android Market/Google Play Store. Online digital distribution has been their driving force. They did it years before the Japanese like Sony and Nintendo did it for video games. Became a tighter ecosystem once online digital media distribution and services got involved.
TIME, 2011
There is nothing to "admit" - it's a matter of opinion. For my taste, needs and preferences, S8 is in no way a better smartphone than the iPhone. The tech you watch prefers the S8 and that is ok, but it is better for him.
As for the ecosystem, just like others have said: it really becomes something great when you have and use multiple devices. For example, I like to transfer files to my iPad with Airdrop from my Mac. They also have clipboard sharing, so I can copy on one and paste on the other. I love how I transfer my AirPods from one device to another.
Apps are also part of this ecosystem. Two apps that help me organize my life are Fantastical 2 and Things - they exist only on Apple devices and I haven't find anything I like as much elsewhere.
I also should note that I actively use my iPad Pro to create stuff (in Clip Studio Paint) and I use Mac and Photoshop as well, and of course iPhone. I also use a Watch and Airpods - so all these fit great togeather. If you're just using your iPhone and a Mac, perhaps some of the benefits are less noticeable. It depends on what you use and how you use it.
That doesn't mean ecosystems don't exist outside Apple's world, just that for a lot of people, Apple's system works great.
I agree. Although I think the iPhone has always been and still is the best smartphone on the market I think a lot of people are brainwashed with the ecosystem thing. Apple’s definition of ecosystem is their hardware working together seamlessly such as your iPhone>Apple Watch>iPad and Mac. True but I bet a vast majority are invested in the ecosystem as Apple defines it.
I’m not necessarily an Apple fanboy but an iPhone fanboy. I work at a world renown university. What I see on campus is the majority of people have iPhones but as as far as other hardware like a laptop or desktop it’s mostly PC’s. There are few computer labs that have Mac’s but most of the labs and offices have PC’s. Interesting that the workers and departments who are supplied smartphones for work get iPhones. Why don’t they get the hardware that’s part of the ecosystem instead of PC’s?
So I think the ecosystem thing of a family of hardware products working together is hype. And only a small % purchase and utilize the family of products because they want them to work together.
I think Apple presents something as a feature and because some people have a phone, a Mac, and iPad, etc they try it.
Because Apple makes it easy for them it's something they adopt and they become 'dependent' on it.
Since Apple has offered them a 'solution' they lock themselves in to that solution and won't or can't consider alternatives, even if the alternative happens to be a better way or process.
Sometimes that better or alternative process may require different hardware and then the mantra becomes "I'm invested in Apple's ecosystem" as the reason to not use that better process. If the process or alternative is better then a rationalization for using Apple's 'solution' kicks in.
I stopped paying attention to all this garbage when the one service Apple offered that I was interested in would not work with my Macs. In the finding of alternative solutions it became evident that while Apple's services work for their products they are not necessarily the best solution, nor the only solution. At that point Apple lost it's hold on me in that regard.
There has been nothing since the introduction of iCloud that Apple has offered as a feature that I have absolutely had to have. I came to iPhone because I liked how the iPhone 5 looked and iOS 5/6 suited me. Apple changed all that with iOS 7 and then taking black away with the 5s and then the ugly antenna lines and camera bump with the 6 series.
I've waited for them to go in a different direction and instead they doubled down with the 7, 8 and X.
Animojis do not qualify as a feature for me, nor do I wish to ever have a poop emoji on my iPhone. I'm just not interested in toilet matters.
Android has one feature I like. I can login to the Google Play store with a Mac or a PC at work, find a game for my daughter and push it to the Android crap-tablet we have at home. She gets to play a new game.
Nothing like that exists on the App store and App downloads on one device that appear on another don't count. I don't need the game I want on her device on my phone or iPad.
That's a useful 'Android ecosystem' thing for me. But Apple would rather focus on other things.
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OP was trying to discuss Apple's ecosystem, not the iPhone.
He can do everything he needs on the iPhone and that does not necessarily mean having to use Apple's ecosystem or services.
Why does rejecting Apple's ecosystem have to equate with rejection of the device?
The two are seperate, as much as Apple wants people to not believe that. Therefore it is quite possible to use an iPhone or iDevice and NOT use Apple's ecosystem and services.
Hence OPs thread.
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Perhaps because SMS is just as easy to use?
It's interesting that people complain that SMS limits you in characters…yet they then go off and send a tweet.
Tweeting with it's character limits is ok, but SMS sucks compared to iMessage?
I have no issues using SMS. I've had unlimited texting since Christmas 2008. iMessage is nice and I do use it, but like all of Apple's other services I am not tied to it.
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There is no PC ecosystem but MS is working hard and fast at doing a lot of the stuff that folks here do with their iPhone and Mac but with W10 and Android. The only real HW that is in the Google ecosystem are Chromebooks and Chromeboxes I actually live generally in the Google eco-system Nexus, Android Wear, Chromebook Pixel, Project Fi, and Google WiFi everything is seamless and works together without any real thought. Just like Apple none of this stuff would work well in enterprise even if some individual pieces might.
Yea I work at a college and it’s all Microsoft. But interesting work phones are 100% iPhones.
Honestly IMO the privacy thing is a bunch of hype. What search engine do you use when you use Safari. Most use Google. You can tell because let’s say I’m on Facebook I see advertisements based on my interests when I used Google via Safari. Not really a bad thing. In fact it can be helpful. I just ignore the advertisements. An example a coworker was reading the NY Post online and he wanted to show me an article. On the sidebar were advertisements based on his interests of ‘Googling’. Or how about YouTube? Was searching for specific videos now YouTube is showing me videos on home screen based on my previous searches. And often times I get those ads then I just ‘skip ad’.
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It's more than that there is also filter bubbles which can be problematic as well - though this is getting away from the ecosystem argument but agian I think Apple is the best (least worst?) at protecting private data.
https://www.wired.com/2016/11/filter-bubble-destroying-democracy/
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...ter-bubble-warnings-presaged-trump-and-brexit
https://duckduckgo.com/privacy
https://www.ted.com/talks/christopher_soghoian_your_smartphone_is_a_civil_rights_issue
Integration,, (tight integration). You may even call it "a limitation" that is so tightly integrated, that u the right hardware works best of all. and 100% of the time.
Google is more open, but less on privacy, as their sole business is advertising...
That's not to say Google doesn't have their privacy policy that is rubbish, its just they care less about it because of the nature of the business they are in.
Any eco-system is gonna have their fair share of problems.. weather its Apple or Google.. (Apple probably must worse in areas where they came late to the game like streaming music) Google was ahead here, so i would say they have more experience with handing music and matching etc.
My basis is always: The long you have been doing something, the more experience u must have..
That doesn't always make it the best either, but it's usually what i look at.
As a teacher, I have an Apple TV set up in my classroom which I use to mirror my iPad to the projector screen.
I use airdrop to sling files around, iCloud to sync my photos, Apple Music (for tv and watch integration), and like that I need only pay once for apps on my iOS devices.
I love using Apple Pay on my Apple Watch to pay for stuff. Faster than the phone.
My Apple Watch can also be used to unlock my Mac, though it’s something I don’t use very often, since I rarely ever wear my watch at home.
I don’t use iMessage as a lot of people in my social circles use Android phones, but I like the continuity feature which lets me make or receive calls and texts on my other Apple products.
It’s all these little conveniences which help make managing so many devices more seamless. Because google lacks a real hardware presence, they don’t really excel in the hardware / software integration which Apple is more renowned for.