Edit to tape in Final Cut

[rangrego]

Hi all,

I Have Sony DSR-25 deck and I try to record a sequence on Mini Dv cassette with TimeCode !!

First I want to know if Mini Dv need to have Black and code before record ?
second, do I need to preset the T.C on the Deck ?

At the DSR Menu I put : DV in Tc : EXTERNAL
TC Preset : 00:58:30:00 (it's for Broadcasting use)

When I drag my Seq to the Assemble, click OK to start record media into tape, the deck try to catch the correct TC and failed.

What I do wrong ?
where can I learn more about Edit To Tape ? tutorials maybe?

Thanks a lot !!!

 

[LethalWolfe]

FCP does not send out TC so you need to black & code the tape. Set the deck TC to Internal, switch the TC mode to Preset, and make sure it's on "record run" not "free run" then dial in 00:58:00;00 and record black for a minute or so. Stop the deck, rewind to 00:58:20;00 or so and switch the TC mode to Regen.

Your FCP sequence should start at 00:58:30;00 and your first frame of program content should start at 01:00:00;00. The place you are delivering the tape to should provide you details for how they want the bars, black, and slate to be before the program starts.


FW isn't frame accurate though and most places will reject a tape that's not frame accurate.


Lethal

 

[bigbossbmb]

If you "print to video" you can start with a blank tape and use EXT TC on the deck.

 

[LethalWolfe]

AFAIK FCP doesn't send out sequence timecode though.


Lethal

 

[bigbossbmb]

it does actually (with Print To Video)

 

[rangrego]

EXT TC and INT TC

If you "print to video" you can start with a blank tape and use EXT TC on the deck.

It's not work with EXT TC... only with INT TC

 

[rangrego]

AFAIK FCP doesn't send out sequence timecode though.


Lethal

FCP does not send out TC so you need to black & code the tape. Set the deck TC to Internal, switch the TC mode to Preset, and make sure it's on "record run" not "free run" then dial in 00:58:00;00 and record black for a minute or so. Stop the deck, rewind to 00:58:20;00 or so and switch the TC mode to Regen.

Your FCP sequence should start at 00:58:30;00 and your first frame of program content should start at 01:00:00;00. The place you are delivering the tape to should provide you details for how they want the bars, black, and slate to be before the program starts.


FW isn't frame accurate though and most places will reject a tape that's not frame accurate.


Lethal

Thank you for your help !
But I still have the same problem.

I put a new MiniDV cassette inside the DSR-25 (REC MODEVCAM).
Type 00:58:30:00 TC PRESET (I need: 1min Bars&Tone, 10sec Black, 10sec Slate, 10sec Black)
Set "RECORD RUN" and not "FREE RUN".
Push the "BLACK&CODE" button on the "Edit to tape" window and record Black for a minute.
Stop the deck (push ESC) and rewind to beginning : 00:58:30:00
Switch the TC mode to Regen.
Than I open again "EDIT TO TAPE" window, write on "in point" 00:58:30:00, drag and drop my Seq into Assemble press OK to sart recording...
The machine try to find the TC (00:58:30:00) with no succeed till F.C open window say :
"Can't find the TC"
The machine fight at the beginning of the tape to catch the TC:00:58:30:00. maybe it's not good to start the first frame on the tape with 00:58:30:00 TC and wright on the in point (Edit To Tape window- down left) the same TC ...

 

[rangrego]

Not Start at the correct TC !!

AFAIK FCP doesn't send out sequence timecode though.


Lethal

FCP does not send out TC so you need to black & code the tape. Set the deck TC to Internal, switch the TC mode to Preset, and make sure it's on "record run" not "free run" then dial in 00:58:00;00 and record black for a minute or so. Stop the deck, rewind to 00:58:20;00 or so and switch the TC mode to Regen.

Your FCP sequence should start at 00:58:30;00 and your first frame of program content should start at 01:00:00;00. The place you are delivering the tape to should provide you details for how they want the bars, black, and slate to be before the program starts.


FW isn't frame accurate though and most places will reject a tape that's not frame accurate.


Lethal

it does actually (with Print To Video)

Thank you very much for you help!!!
When I put on my DSR-25 DV IN TC : EXTERNAL there is no TC al all !!
Only 00:00:00:00 all long the program


And the most serious problem:
The first frame of my program content start at : 01:00:00:22 !!!!!!!!!

 

[LethalWolfe]

The machine fight at the beginning of the tape to catch the TC:00:58:30:00. maybe it's not good to start the first frame on the tape with 00:58:30:00 TC and wright on the in point (Edit To Tape window- down left) the same TC ...

The deck needs at least 5 seconds of pre-roll before the edit point and at least 5 seconds of post roll after the edit point (although most places want 60 seconds of black after the end of the program). That's why I suggested to start the TC on the tape at 00:58:00;00.

Also, DVCAM and MiniDV operate at different tape speeds so if you are recording in DVCAM onto a 1hr MiniDV tape you'll only get 45 minutes of record time.

Lethal

 

[bigbossbmb]

It works for DVCProHD on the Panasonic 1400 deck, so maybe it's just not a feature of that Sony deck.

Maybe your deck set to DF and you're trying to send NDF TC?

I dunno, I do it all the time to DVCProHD so I thought it'd work for you.

 

[rangrego]

AFAIK FCP doesn't send out sequence timecode though.


Lethal

FCP does not send out TC so you need to black & code the tape. Set the deck TC to Internal, switch the TC mode to Preset, and make sure it's on "record run" not "free run" then dial in 00:58:00;00 and record black for a minute or so. Stop the deck, rewind to 00:58:20;00 or so and switch the TC mode to Regen.

Your FCP sequence should start at 00:58:30;00 and your first frame of program content should start at 01:00:00;00. The place you are delivering the tape to should provide you details for how they want the bars, black, and slate to be before the program starts.


FW isn't frame accurate though and most places will reject a tape that's not frame accurate.


Lethal

it does actually (with Print To Video)

It works for DVCProHD on the Panasonic 1400 deck, so maybe it's just not a feature of that Sony deck.

Maybe your deck set to DF and you're trying to send NDF TC?

I dunno, I do it all the time to DVCProHD so I thought it'd work for you.

How i know if my deck set to DF ?
Can I change the sequence settings and send NDF TC ?
Do you mean that you put on your Panasonic deck a blank tape, put in External and FC send the Tc on your Time Line ??? Do you preset the TC before on your deck?

The deck needs at least 5 seconds of pre-roll before the edit point and at least 5 seconds of post roll after the edit point (although most places want 60 seconds of black after the end of the program). That's why I suggested to start the TC on the tape at 00:58:00;00.

Also, DVCAM and MiniDV operate at different tape speeds so if you are recording in DVCAM onto a 1hr MiniDV tape you'll only get 45 minutes of record time.

Lethal

You are very right my dear friend !!!
Thank you so much.

 

[LethalWolfe]

It works for DVCProHD on the Panasonic 1400 deck, so maybe it's just not a feature of that Sony deck.

Maybe your deck set to DF and you're trying to send NDF TC?

I dunno, I do it all the time to DVCProHD so I thought it'd work for you.

Interesting to know. I don't think any DV decks will do this as I remember a few years ago there was a hack/work around to get it to work w/a DSR-11 and some third party software and people thought that was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I've never laid off to DVCPro HD before so I didn't know it would do that. Can you do it w/the 1200 or just the 1400, do you know?

OP,
Sounds like things are working now. Good to hear.


Lethal

 

[bigbossbmb]

not sure about the 1200 since I've never used it...

but yeah, it is very handy for laying off DVCProHD QTs (acquired broll) to tape to digitize into Avid. my jaw dropped when the last few clips we got were 720p30... I was really surprised to not get 720p60 or 1080i. But it is really nice to just run it through Compressor, drop it in a timeline (with bars and title card), and lay it off with the media starting at hour one.

 

[rangrego]

The deck needs at least 5 seconds of pre-roll before the edit point and at least 5 seconds of post roll after the edit point (although most places want 60 seconds of black after the end of the program). That's why I suggested to start the TC on the tape at 00:58:00;00.

Also, DVCAM and MiniDV operate at different tape speeds so if you are recording in DVCAM onto a 1hr MiniDV tape you'll only get 45 minutes of record time.

Lethal

not sure about the 1200 since I've never used it...

but yeah, it is very handy for laying off DVCProHD QTs (acquired broll) to tape to digitize into Avid. my jaw dropped when the last few clips we got were 720p30... I was really surprised to not get 720p60 or 1080i. But it is really nice to just run it through Compressor, drop it in a timeline (with bars and title card), and lay it off with the media starting at hour one.

How i know if my deck set to DF ?
Can I change the sequence settings and send NDF TC ?
Do you mean that you put on your Panasonic deck a blank tape, put in External and FC send the Tc on your Time Line ??? Do you preset the TC before on your deck?

 

[bigbossbmb]

check the deck's manual, I haven't used that deck.

there's a checkbox in your sequence settings for DF/NDF.

yes, i put in a blank tape and just send the sequence TC to the deck over FW. I don't have to preset any TC on the deck beforehand.

 

[rangrego]

check the deck's manual, I haven't used that deck.

there's a checkbox in your sequence settings for DF/NDF.

yes, i put in a blank tape and just send the sequence TC to the deck over FW. I don't have to preset any TC on the deck beforehand.

I am really sorry my friend, I am new in this buisnes. What is FW ? you said you send the Seq TC to the deck over FW...

And another question, what is mean Not Drop Frame ? when I use DF and when I use NDF ?

Thank you so much!

 

[bigbossbmb]

FW=Firewire

Drop Frame and Non Drop Frame are numbering systems for your timeline. Drop Frame timelines take into account the fact that video (in NTSC land) runs at 29.97 instead of 30fps. Are you editing NTSC or PAL?

 

[rangrego]

FW=Firewire

Drop Frame and Non Drop Frame are numbering systems for your timeline. Drop Frame timelines take into account the fact that video (in NTSC land) runs at 29.97 instead of 30fps. Are you editing NTSC or PAL?

I am editing in PAL.

 

[bigbossbmb]

PAL doesn't have DF and NDF timcode, so that's not the problem. have you tried blacking the whole tape and doing an insert edit?

 

[rangrego]

PAL doesn't have DF and NDF timcode, so that's not the problem. have you tried blacking the whole tape and doing an insert edit?

I blacked the whole tape on external mode without preset the TC .
and when I try to drop the SEQ into the insert on the edit to tape window - this option was not work/ only Assemble.

 

[bigbossbmb]

you have to preset the TC on the deck when you black the tape or else you're not really doing anything. the idea is that you are laying down the TC onto the tape and then the assemble edit/insert edit is following the TC that is already present.

so to black the tape, set TC on the deck to Internal and Preset. Set it to 00;58;00;00 and start from there. that way you have 30s of lead time before your sequence starts with bars and tone at 00;58;30;00. then if you do an assemble edit, you must change the deck over to Regen TC.

 

[rangrego]

you have to preset the TC on the deck when you black the tape or else you're not really doing anything. the idea is that you are laying down the TC onto the tape and then the assemble edit/insert edit is following the TC that is already present.

so to black the tape, set TC on the deck to Internal and Preset. Set it to 00;58;00;00 and start from there. that way you have 30s of lead time before your sequence starts with bars and tone at 00;58;30;00. then if you do an assemble edit, you must change the deck over to Regen TC.

Thank you very much !!!!!!!!