iPhone Effect of iOS 7 on the current iPhone 5

[elessar25]

Curious on what people think of how ios 7 will handle memory allocation given the new multitasking/auto update paradigm. My thinking is that the next iPhone (5S?) will finally need to include 2GB RAM to handle all this efficiently. So that brings me to the iPhone 5 and its 1GB. Will it turn into a turtle? Like the iPhone 3G after the ios 4 update?

Or, option 2: Apple will quietly dick you a la Windows Phone 8, where the OS doesn't commit certain things to memory on lower RAM devices ( http://www.modaco.com/topic/358911-are-wp8-devices-with-512mb-ram-crippled/). This, of course, also results in a clandestine degradation of user experience on those devices with lower RAM.

 

[Kohkane]

Curious on what people think of how ios 7 will handle memory allocation given the new multitasking/auto update paradigm. My thinking is that the next iPhone (5S?) will finally need to include 2GB RAM to handle all this efficiently. So that brings me to the iPhone 5 and its 1GB. Will it turn into a turtle? Like the iPhone 3G after the ios 4 update?

Or, option 2: Apple will quietly dick you a la Windows Phone 8, where the OS doesn't commit certain things to memory on lower RAM devices ( http://www.modaco.com/topic/358911-are-wp8-devices-with-512mb-ram-crippled/). This, of course, also results in a clandestine degradation of user experience on those devices with lower RAM.

Not even close, the iPhone 5 should do just fine with 1gb of ram. I haven't ran into any issues on android devices with 1gb of ram, and the os isn't even optimized.

 

[elessar25]

Not even close, the iPhone 5 should do just fine with 1gb of ram. I haven't ran into any issues on android devices with 1gb of ram, and the os isn't even optimized.

Yes, but that's precisely the point. Android doesn't optimize memory allocation like iOS and Windows Phone. Some I am curious how a 1GB phone will handle an OS that is designed to efficiently manage 2GBs or RAM.

 

[darngooddesign]

It will be fine.

 

[Tubamajuba]

Auto-update won't take any more RAM than manual updates do now. So no worries there.

And even the 512 MB devices should be fine performance-wise with the iOS 7 multitasking. Of course you can expect things like Safari having to reload more tabs and less recently-used apps being kicked out of memory quicker, but those things should have no effect on the perceived speed of the device. iOS would have to use 400+ MB of RAM by itself in order to choke a 512 MB device like iOS 4 did on the 128 MB iPhone 3G or iOS 5 on the 256 MB original iPad.

EDIT- Now that I think about it, the iPhone 4 is an exception. Initial reports from those who have beta 1 on the iPhone 4 indicate pretty mediocre performance in general. Though things will improve by the fall, the CPU and GPU inside the A4 are nearing the end of their useful life- even 2GB of RAM wouldn't help the iPhone 4 in this case.

 

[syd430]

So does iOS 7 use true multitasking now instead of just saving the state and allowing only certain API's? I really hope not.

 

[GreyOS]

No. The world wide developer conference than spanned a week was to go over and introduce all these new APIs with developers so they can start using them. They demo this stuff on iPhone 5s. You're not about to get dicked.

 

[Serelus]

Yes, but that's precisely the point. Android doesn't optimize memory allocation like iOS and Windows Phone. Some I am curious how a 1GB phone will handle an OS that is designed to efficiently manage 2GBs or RAM.

You don't know wether or not the new iPhone will come with 2GB nor do you know wether or not the OS is designed to manage 2GB efficiently.

Just stating the iPhone is going to need 2GB if this new OS gets deployed is an assumption you shouldn't be making.

It's all just speculation. Looking back at my 3GS until now, Apple has been pretty generous when it came to compatibility in OS support for older devices. I wouldn't worry.

 

[elessar25]

You don't know wether or not the new iPhone will come with 2GB nor do you know wether or not the OS is designed to manage 2GB efficiently.

Just stating the iPhone is going to need 2GB if this new OS gets deployed is an assumption you shouldn't be making.

It's all just speculation. Looking back at my 3GS until now, Apple has been pretty generous when it came to compatibility in OS support for older devices. I wouldn't worry.

Let's take a trip down memory lane, shall we? iOS 4 worked fine on both the iPhone 4 and the 3GS, but it rendered the 3G useless. iOS 5 came with Siri that didn't work on any iPhone older than the 4S. So Apple has clearly differentiated iOS performance based on hardware in the past, whether deliberately (as in the case of Siri) or indirectly (as in the effect of iOS 4 on the iPhone 3G.)

You are correct that I am speculating regarding the internals of the forthcoming iPhone, but I believe that my assessment is accurate. The 5S (or whatever it'll be called) will have to have upgraded internals. While I have no clue what design they'll use on the SoC, I am pretty certain about two features: 2GB RAM and radio support for LTE Advanced. These are just no-brainer hardware iterations for late 2013.

Now, assuming that my fairly conservative prediction is accurate, you have to wonder what kind of a performance delta will exist on the older iPhone 5 with half the RAM vs the upcoming iPhone. Moreover, I see it as fitting perfectly with the move that iOS 7 is making to more or less real app multitasking.

 

[sparky1499]

I am pretty certain about two features: 2GB RAM and radio support for LTE Advanced. These are just no-brainer hardware iterations for late 2013.

The latter, yes, but the former? How can you be so certain?

What do you know that no-one else knows?

 

[GreyOS]

Let's take a trip down memory lane, shall we? iOS 4 worked fine on both the iPhone 4 and the 3GS, but it rendered the 3G useless. iOS 5 came with Siri that didn't work on any iPhone older than the 4S. So Apple has clearly differentiated iOS performance based on hardware in the past, whether deliberately (as in the case of Siri) or indirectly (as in the effect of iOS 4 on the iPhone 3G.)

You are correct that I am speculating regarding the internals of the forthcoming iPhone, but I believe that my assessment is accurate. The 5S (or whatever it'll be called) will have to have upgraded internals. While I have no clue what design they'll use on the SoC, I am pretty certain about two features: 2GB RAM and radio support for LTE Advanced. These are just no-brainer hardware iterations for late 2013.

Now, assuming that my fairly conservative prediction is accurate, you have to wonder what kind of a performance delta will exist on the older iPhone 5 with half the RAM vs the upcoming iPhone. Moreover, I see it as fitting perfectly with the move that iOS 7 is making to more or less real app multitasking.

I still disagree. Look, Apple are getting developers to make the most of these new multitasking APIs now. There would be some warning that these APIs aren't great for iPhone 5 or the models with 512mb RAM. It just doesn't make sense.

I don't think it's a certainty that the iPhone 5S will have 2GB RAM either. The 4S saw no upgrade in RAM. But anyway, beside the point. Yes, they could well bump it up to 2GB (or 1.5GB)... And you'd hope the OS would make the most of the RAM and improve the experience. But I don't think the iPhone 5 will be at all significantly worse off running iOS 7 vs iOS 6 because the changes to multitasking are designed for 2GB.

How much do you actually know about the changes to multitasking?

 

[VSMacOne]

Here's the difference between Apple and Microsoft, or even Android phone manufacturers: Apple has never made a big deal of specs. They implement features in a way that doesn't require ridiculous specs. So I think the way they will implement multitasking in iOS7 will continue to reflect that principle.
So no, I don't think iOS 7 will be crippled on iPhone 5.

 

[sparky1499]

I agree with the above.

Apple writes software that doesn't require the sort of 'spec bragging' that comes with other types of phone/computer hardware, i.e. Apple software is 'tuned' to the hardware.

*edited for my poor spelling.

 

[elessar25]

Here's the difference between Apple and Microsoft, or even Android phone manufacturers: Apple has never made a big deal of specs. They implement features in a way that doesn't require ridiculous specs. So I think the way they will implement multitasking in iOS7 will continue to reflect that principle.
So no, I don't think iOS 7 will be crippled on iPhone 5.

That's downright ridiculous. Is that why they surprised everyone with their own custom SWIFT SoC during the iPhone 5 launch? B/c they couldn't care less about specs? Or (changing it up to the Macs) they were first to market bragging about the new Haswell chips in the Macbook Airs? Sorry, Apple most certainly cares about specs, they just don't (sometimes) make it the main focus of their marketing campaign. Like when the iPad launched, Steve Jobs was touting it's new usability scenarios and its cost, as opposed to making the main selling point the A8 SoC inside it. But then again, dual core CPUs was a huge part of the 4S launch and their own custom SWIFT SoC was a central feature of the iPhone 5 launch.

So don't tell me that Apple doesn't care about specs, b/c that's nonsense. What I would say, though, is that Apple seems to implement spec increases when they will actually make a difference to the end user. Like Apple will never launch an iPhone 5 midstream, touting that the new version has higher clock speed. I'm referring to things like the HTC One X+, launched 6 months after the HTC One X last fall on AT&T or (old-school) the Palm Pre Plus vs the Palm Pre. Apple seems to get it right the first time around. But when they do release a new device, there's compelling specs bumps as well. That brings us back to the iOS 7 multitasking and 1 or 2 GB discussion...

 

[elessar25]

I still disagree. Look, Apple are getting developers to make the most of these new multitasking APIs now. There would be some warning that these APIs aren't great for iPhone 5 or the models with 512mb RAM. It just doesn't make sense.

I don't think it's a certainty that the iPhone 5S will have 2GB RAM either. The 4S saw no upgrade in RAM. But anyway, beside the point. Yes, they could well bump it up to 2GB (or 1.5GB)... And you'd hope the OS would make the most of the RAM and improve the experience. But I don't think the iPhone 5 will be at all significantly worse off running iOS 7 vs iOS 6 because the changes to multitasking are designed for 2GB.

How much do you actually know about the changes to multitasking?

Here's what I know about the changes to the multitasking:

Multitasking
iOS 7 offers up a smarter way to multitask. When users tap the home button twice, it will display preview screens of apps that are open. Unlike before, the screens are previews of actual apps rather than just a small app icon. iOS 7 incorporates a learning algorithm that takes note of when users utilize certain apps and keeps those up to date with new content before they are launched. So, for example, if someone wakes up and checks Facebook, iOS 7 will learn that behavior and have Facebook updates ready to go in the background before the app is opened. The new mobile OS also uses intelligently scheduled updates and will update during power efficient times. For example, when the device is connected to WiFi. It's also able to respond to push notifications, updating apps that send out notifications.
This is from: https://www.macrumors.com/2013/06/10/apple-announces-ios-7-with-major-design-overhaul/

Having "Facebok updates ready to go in the background" eats into memory, thus requiring more RAM IMO.

 

[Kohkane]

Here's what I know about the changes to the multitasking:

Multitasking
iOS 7 offers up a smarter way to multitask. When users tap the home button twice, it will display preview screens of apps that are open. Unlike before, the screens are previews of actual apps rather than just a small app icon. iOS 7 incorporates a learning algorithm that takes note of when users utilize certain apps and keeps those up to date with new content before they are launched. So, for example, if someone wakes up and checks Facebook, iOS 7 will learn that behavior and have Facebook updates ready to go in the background before the app is opened. The new mobile OS also uses intelligently scheduled updates and will update during power efficient times. For example, when the device is connected to WiFi. It's also able to respond to push notifications, updating apps that send out notifications.
This is from: https://www.macrumors.com/2013/06/10/apple-announces-ios-7-with-major-design-overhaul/

Having "Facebok updates ready to go in the background" eats into memory, thus requiring more RAM IMO.

1gb can still handle that smoothly.

 

[VSMacOne]

That's downright ridiculous. Is that why they surprised everyone with their own custom SWIFT SoC during the iPhone 5 launch? B/c they couldn't care less about specs? Or (changing it up to the Macs) they were first to market bragging about the new Haswell chips in the Macbook Airs? Sorry, Apple most certainly cares about specs, they just don't (sometimes) make it the main focus of their marketing campaign. Like when the iPad launched, Steve Jobs was touting it's new usability scenarios and its cost, as opposed to making the main selling point the A8 SoC inside it. But then again, dual core CPUs was a huge part of the 4S launch and their own custom SWIFT SoC was a central feature of the iPhone 5 launch.

So don't tell me that Apple doesn't care about specs, b/c that's nonsense. What I would say, though, is that Apple seems to implement spec increases when they will actually make a difference to the end user. Like Apple will never launch an iPhone 5 midstream, touting that the new version has higher clock speed. I'm referring to things like the HTC One X+, launched 6 months after the HTC One X last fall on AT&T or (old-school) the Palm Pre Plus vs the Palm Pre. Apple seems to get it right the first time around. But when they do release a new device, there's compelling specs bumps as well. That brings us back to the iOS 7 multitasking and 1 or 2 GB discussion...

No, whats ridiculous is you misunderstanding my point. How the heck would a technology company not care about the stuff they put in their products? Of course they do. Nobody said otherwise.
What you're missing is the point I was trying to make: Apple has hardly ever advertised their products by spec. Even with the Haswell processors that you brought up, the main focus of Apple's introduction wasn't Ghz and such, it was how long the customer would be able to use it. They basically took the specs and added their OS, and I believe that Mavericks will show an even bigger increase in the battery life come fall.
So again, what I'm trying to say is that I doubt iPhone 5 will not be able to fully use iOS7 or benefit from the multitasking. That's not how Apple has done things in the past. Just look at the 4S and how well it runs iOS6, which was introduced for iPhone 5. See what I mean?

 

[sparky1499]

but the next iPhone will still have 2GB of RAM right?

right?

right?

 

[XboxMySocks]

Considering that the 4S can use the same features as the 5 can with 512 GB of ram, you'll be absolutely fine. Relax.

 

[roland.g]

Apple simply wouldn't take current selling hardware such as their "flagship" iPhone 5 and make any part of iOS 7 not fully functional on it. You can continue to argue otherwise, but it won't get you anywhere.

 

[elessar25]

No, whats ridiculous is you misunderstanding my point. How the heck would a technology company not care about the stuff they put in their products? Of course they do. Nobody said otherwise.
What you're missing is the point I was trying to make: Apple has hardly ever advertised their products by spec. Even with the Haswell processors that you brought up, the main focus of Apple's introduction wasn't Ghz and such, it was how long the customer would be able to use it. They basically took the specs and added their OS, and I believe that Mavericks will show an even bigger increase in the battery life come fall.

I don't want to get into a shouting match over semantics, so let's just leave it be.

So again, what I'm trying to say is that I doubt iPhone 5 will not be able to fully use iOS7 or benefit from the multitasking. That's not how Apple has done things in the past. Just look at the 4S and how well it runs iOS6, which was introduced for iPhone 5. See what I mean?

You are definitely right regarding the iPhone 4S running iOS 6 no problem. It's just that I view iOS 7 as a much bigger under the hood upgrade that iOS 6 was, which is why I was questioning how it would affect older hardware. By the way, I just checked and saw that iOS 4 launched alongside the iPhone 4 which came with 512MB RAM. iOS 4 also worked pretty fine on the 3GS which only had 256GB RAM, but it caused the iPhone 3G to stumble pretty miserably. Maybe that had more to do with ARM11 than with the 128GB RAM? Dunno.

If the iPhone 5 upgrade to iOS 7 will be like the 3GS running iOS 4, then I guess we really don't have to be terribly scared.

By the way, the reason I bring this up I because I'm strongly considering getting the iPhone 5 on T-Mobile, but am afraid it would be stupid with the 5S just around the corner! I just can't stand Sprint anymore!!!

----------

Apple simply wouldn't take current selling hardware such as their "flagship" iPhone 5 and make any part of iOS 7 not fully functional on it. You can continue to argue otherwise, but it won't get you anywhere.

Siri anyone? Remember how it magically didn't work on the iPhone 4?

 

[VSMacOne]

I don't want to get into a shouting match over semantics, so let's just leave it be.



You are definitely right regarding the iPhone 4S running iOS 6 no problem. It's just that I view iOS 7 as a much bigger under the hood upgrade that iOS 6 was, which is why I was questioning how it would affect older hardware. By the way, I just checked and saw that iOS 4 launched alongside the iPhone 4 which came with 512MB RAM. iOS 4 also worked pretty fine on the 3GS which only had 256GB RAM, but it caused the iPhone 3G to stumble pretty miserably. Maybe that had more to do with ARM11 than with the 128GB RAM? Dunno.

If the iPhone 5 upgrade to iOS 7 will be like the 3GS running iOS 4, then I guess we really don't have to be terribly scared.

By the way, the reason I bring this up I because I'm strongly considering getting the iPhone 5 on T-Mobile, but am afraid it would be stupid with the 5S just around the corner! I just can't stand Sprint anymore!!!

----------



Siri anyone? Remember how it magically didn't work on the iPhone 4?

1. Nobody's getting in a shouting match, I'm just explaining myself because obviously you misunderstood me.

2. Don't get the 5 if you can help it. Especially after waiting this long. It sounds like you're particular about your "toys", so I'm sure you'll be more satisfied with the 5S.

3. I don't think your concerns about the 3GS are valid with the 5. The technology has advanced so quickly over the past 4 years, that the hardware in iPhone 5 was ahead of iOS6, and should not have any trouble with 7. (Plus, even with the 3G, I think iOS 4.1 radically improved the experience on the 3G).

4. I think Siri is different, because it was a pretty big deal when they did it, but with how it's working today, and all the things it can do, I think it would've been more difficult for Apple to differentiate between different levels of Siri functionality based on what phone you were using.

 

[elessar25]

1. Nobody's getting in a shouting match, I'm just explaining myself because obviously you misunderstood me.

2. Don't get the 5 if you can help it. Especially after waiting this long. It sounds like you're particular about your "toys", so I'm sure you'll be more satisfied with the 5S.

3. I don't think your concerns about the 3GS are valid with the 5. The technology has advanced so quickly over the past 4 years, that the hardware in iPhone 5 was ahead of iOS6, and should not have any trouble with 7. (Plus, even with the 3G, I think iOS 4.1 radically improved the experience on the 3G).

4. I think Siri is different, because it was a pretty big deal when they did it, but with how it's working today, and all the things it can do, I think it would've been more difficult for Apple to differentiate between different levels of Siri functionality based on what phone you were using.

You make good points. I just need to get out of Sprint Hell ASAP. Maybe I'll toy around with a Windows Phone on T-Mobile until the 5S comes out...

 

[DMH3006]

You make good points. I just need to get out of Sprint Hell ASAP. Maybe I'll toy around with a Windows Phone on T-Mobile until the 5S comes out...

If Apple remains how the route they've been going the 5S should get 1GB of RAM but faster CPU and GPU.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Curious on what people think of how ios 7 will handle memory allocation given the new multitasking/auto update paradigm. My thinking is that the next iPhone (5S?) will finally need to include 2GB RAM to handle all this efficiently. So that brings me to the iPhone 5 and its 1GB. Will it turn into a turtle? Like the iPhone 3G after the ios 4 update?

Or, option 2: Apple will quietly dick you a la Windows Phone 8, where the OS doesn't commit certain things to memory on lower RAM devices ( http://www.modaco.com/topic/358911-are-wp8-devices-with-512mb-ram-crippled/). This, of course, also results in a clandestine degradation of user experience on those devices with lower RAM.

Are you trying to decide between updating a phone now, or waiting for the 5s release because of iOS 7?