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Everyone wants an IM Client from the SDK... BUT.....

W

wrboyce

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 30, 2007
270
0
Well, I for one would like to have my iPhone constantly connected to said IM Service so people can get hold of my via IM while I'm out and about - a really good feature on a mobile phone in my opinion..

Just a shame that nobody will be able to call me while it's signed in..

Herein lies the flaw :-/
 
How do you know you won't be able to take calls while you're using an IM client? None of the third-party applications developed using the official SDK are out yet.
 
wrboyce said:
Well, I for one would like to have my iPhone constantly connected to said IM Service so people can get hold of my via IM while I'm out and about - a really good feature on a mobile phone in my opinion..

Just a shame that nobody will be able to call me while it's signed in..

Herein lies the flaw :-/
Click to expand...

maybe apple would allow them to make it so when youre on wifi the app could run in the background. But I know they said that no apps can run in the background.
 
er.... Battery life anyone? Even on wifi, being permanently connected to the net would surely prohibitively drain the battery... Another flaw to the plan
 
Voidness said:
How do you know you won't be able to take calls while you're using an IM client? None of the third-party applications developed using the official SDK are out yet.
Click to expand...

on edge you can either use data or voice, but not both at the same time... 3g would solve this though.
 
Yes, I'm aware that Apple hasn't allowed third-party applications to run in the back ground. Actually, most of the built-in applications on the iPhone don't run in the background. The only ones that run in the background are Phone, Mail, Safari, and iPod.

If you've noticed, I haven't mentioned the SMS application. Why? Because actually, it doesn't run in the background. Surprising, eh?
 
Voidness said:
Yes, I'm aware that Apple hasn't allowed third-party applications to run in the back ground. Actually, most of the built-in applications on the iPhone don't run in the background. The only ones that run in the background are Phone, Mail, Safari, and iPod.

If you've noticed, I haven't mentioned the SMS application. Why? Because actually, it doesn't run in the background. Surprising, eh?
Click to expand...

Not really surprising. SMS is like email in the sense that you can send one to a recipient without them being available at that moment. The SMS is pushed to the phone when it becomes available, but the phone isn't polling a server to see if there's anything new for them constantly.

I wonder if a similar approach could be taken with IM? Instant messaging requires a connection to a server and the user to be authenticated, sure, but all the major services offer offline messaging to be received when the user is available again. Say you have an IM conversation going in a chat client on the iPhone. You're connected and polling the server, but when you switch away to the iPod app, Safari, etc. it stops the constant polling and instead checks less frequently.

Of course, this could all be solved by having IM chat work on a push basis instead of pull. At least, I think so. :)
 
personally, i'm not ready to take the step into 'instant messaging everywhere, anywhere, anytime'. if i'm out (or in class ;) ) and want IM, i'll sign in and use it... i honestly don't mind if it can't run in the background. my only gripe would be if i couldn't run it in the background of the same usage session... for example, go into ipod and switch an album, or go onto safari and look something up, or use another app etc. but then go back to IM and still be signed in without having lost any messages.
 
Just because an IM app is always "connected" doesnt mean a constant flow of data has to go back and forth. Maybe a "keep alive" signal sent every so often.

There are IM apps on other devices that allow you to get messages anytime (unless you sign out).

I had one on my palm a couple years back that would give the option to get an IM via SMS or Data.

If the SDK allows some sort of hook to monitor incoming data or what-not, then the IM app could work. Otherwise, it will be no better than the web based apps such as jive talk.
 
AGSHender said:
Of course, this could all be solved by having IM chat work on a push basis instead of pull. At least, I think so. :)
Click to expand...

IM is push. :)

The problem is that you need to keep a TCP connection open in order to receive messages. This is actually very similar to IMAP IDLE/PUSH, and Exchange Push.

It is also interesting that it isn't having this connection open that prevents incoming calls, it is data flowing over the lines that prevents the calls. But, with IMAP IDLE, or Exchange Push, if you receive a lot of mail, the odds you miss a call will go up. The same will happen with any similar IM service. And a developer attempting to make the server connect to the client won't always work, as how addressing with phones work is a bit wonky.
 
Voidness said:
Yes, I'm aware that Apple hasn't allowed third-party applications to run in the back ground. Actually, most of the built-in applications on the iPhone don't run in the background. The only ones that run in the background are Phone, Mail, Safari, and iPod.

If you've noticed, I haven't mentioned the SMS application. Why? Because actually, it doesn't run in the background. Surprising, eh?
Click to expand...

Code: 
# ps uxc
USER   PID %CPU %MEM      VSZ    RSS  TT  STAT STARTED      TIME COMMAND
root     1   0.0  0.3   272956    328  ??  Ss    6Mar08   0:59.49 launchd
root    14   0.0  4.1   564832   4812  ??  Ss    6Mar08   8:08.22 CommCenter
root    17   0.0  1.0   275864   1236  ??  Ss    6Mar08  29:32.68 configd
root    18   0.0  0.3   273404    384  ??  Ss    6Mar08   0:00.37 crashreporterd
root    19   0.0  0.3   272968    304  ??  Ss    6Mar08   0:02.23 cron
root    21   0.0  0.6   273764    728  ??  Ss    6Mar08   2:14.96 mDNSResponder
root    23   0.0  0.2   274000    276  ??  Ss    6Mar08   7:11.68 syslogd
root    24   0.0  0.1   264644    116  ??  Ss    6Mar08   2:18.57 update
root    28   0.0  0.3   273456    368  ??  Ss    6Mar08   1:17.17 notifyd
root  4071   0.0  0.7   284208    804  ??  Ss   Thu01AM   0:36.39 lockdownd
root  4660   0.0  0.4   273148    416  ??  Ss   Thu08PM   0:16.30 SCHelper
root  5254   0.0  1.0   274168   1168  p4  Ss   10:35PM   0:00.08 -sh
root  5257   0.0  0.3   272876    332  p4  R+   10:35PM   0:00.02 ps
# su -c "ps uxc" mobile
USER     PID %CPU %MEM      VSZ    RSS  TT  STAT STARTED      TIME COMMAND
mobile  5271   9.0  0.3   272876    324  p4  R+   10:39PM   0:00.07 ps
mobile    20   0.0  0.0        0      0  ??   s    6Mar08   0:00.00 iapd
mobile    25   0.0  0.0        0      0  ??   s    6Mar08   0:00.00 ptpd
mobile    13   0.0  0.0        0      0  ??   s    6Mar08   0:00.00 BTServer
mobile  5127   0.0  0.0        0      0  ??   s    6:26PM   0:00.00 mediaserverd
mobile  5133   0.0  0.0        0      0  ??        6:30PM   0:00.00 MobileSafari
mobile  5159   0.0  0.0        0      0  ??        7:38PM   0:00.00 MobileMail
mobile  5270   0.0  0.0        0      0  ??       10:39PM   0:00.00 MobileTimer
mobile  4536   0.0  0.0        0      0  ??       Thu05PM   0:00.00 MobilePhone
 
A lot of things happen through Jabber.. and it's just better than sms ;)
 
dombookpro said:
er.... Battery life anyone? Even on wifi, being permanently connected to the net would surely prohibitively drain the battery... Another flaw to the plan
Click to expand...

Well I guess that's a risk that IM users will have to take! Battery life isn't a 'flaw to the plan'. How is it a flaw in any sense at all?
 
Battery Life shouldn't be too bad, but why stay connected 24/7 anyway? Just log off when you're done talking. (I do not see the point in staying logged on for days at a time..can anyone help me with that?) I know with my Sidekick 3 and current LX you can stay logged on and receive phone calls, but it temporarily drops the I/M client (i.e. disconnects you for some 30 seconds) but after the phone call is over, it re-establishes the connects your up and ready to chat (usually 30-60 seconds.) Somebody should be able to pull that with the iPhone.
 
From my understanding on ATT when you are on EDGE you can either use data or voice but NOT both. I don't know if it works this way on all carriers.

This pretty much makes IM useless on an I phone.
 
If it's possible on a Sidekick using EDGE, it's possible on an iPhone. Nothing to worry about people, these guys know what they're doing.
 
AMoeini said:
Battery Life shouldn't be too bad, but why stay connected 24/7 anyway? Just log off when you're done talking. (I do not see the point in staying logged on for days at a time..can anyone help me with that?) I know with my Sidekick 3 and current LX you can stay logged on and receive phone calls, but it temporarily drops the I/M client (i.e. disconnects you for some 30 seconds) but after the phone call is over, it re-establishes the connects your up and ready to chat (usually 30-60 seconds.) Somebody should be able to pull that with the iPhone.
Click to expand...

People can contact you if you're always online.. Perhaps not when asleep, but I'd get left connected because I wouldn't bother to disconnect before going to bed.
Also as I mentioned earlier, there are many services I use through Jabber.. Jaiku for instance - I suppose they may be the main reason to stay connected.

This isn't a hurdle a developer can jump. The problem is with EDGE not being able to use data and alert to a voice call. If I am browsing via EDGE, my calls go staright to voicemail. If I was connected to IM 24/7, I'd never be alerted to an incoming call.
 
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