Expanding Mac Pro w/ Internal Sata Ports.. WIll this config. work?

[MattRobertson]

Just wanted to run this by the forum before I go with this solution.. I currently have the 2 x 2.66 Ghz Dual-Core Intel Xenon Mac Pro (I bought it in the summer of 08'). And I have filled the 4 internal hard drive bays (all 1tb drives, I do video work so I need a ton of space). I need the drive to be esata because if its anything slower it won't work as well editing in final cut pro. So I was gonna use the solution to expand the internal mac pro ports (the two extra sata ports on the motherboard (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Newer Technology/MPQXES2/).

Here's what i'm thinking of doing. Getting the extender in the link above. Hooking that up, then buying a 1.5tb sata hard drive like this one

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136351

and hooking it up through a sata dock like this:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...c_mri?_encoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

and just connecting it through the sata cables that come with the dock.. Will this work fine? Is there anything I should take note of?

 

[Dr.Pants]

Would you be hooking these up and connecting to your internal array (which is, I assume, what you have done with the other four internally)? If so, then putting them outside your MacPro is a REALLY bad idea. maybe not a bad idea, but it goes against a rule-of-thumb. If you're just doing it for two more seperate volumes of information, your solution is probably golden - but also consider that you could get the same performance, IIRC, out of FW800.

If you need heavy speed and lots of storage, you may want a scratch array of SAS drives and an array (or dedicated RAID-ZFS based computer) of SATA drives for long-term storage.

Areca makes good controllers.

 

[MattRobertson]

Would you be hooking these up and connecting to your internal array (which is, I assume, what you have done with the other four internally)? If so, then putting them outside your MacPro is a REALLY bad idea. maybe not a bad idea, but it goes against a rule-of-thumb. If you're just doing it for two more seperate volumes of information, your solution is probably golden - but also consider that you could get the same performance, IIRC, out of FW800.

If you need heavy speed and lots of storage, you may want a scratch array of SAS drives and an array (or dedicated RAID-ZFS based computer) of SATA drives for long-term storage.

Areca makes good controllers.

Thanks for the quick reply! I just have 4 seperate drives currently, and thats all I was planning on adding was 2 eventually but just 1 1.5tb drive right now. So you're saying if I got a FW800 drive it would preform about the same? Do all mac pro's come fw800 compatible?

 

[Dr.Pants]

Thanks for the quick reply! I just have 4 seperate drives currently, and thats all I was planning on adding was 2 eventually but just 1 1.5tb drive right now. So you're saying if I got a FW800 drive it would preform about the same? Do all mac pro's come fw800 compatible?

Yep. I believe all MacPros have two of them. The transfer volume is ~100 MB/s full duplex (from Wikipedia)... I know that currently most disc drives aren't hindered by the halved speed of SATA I (150 MB/s) as compared to SATA II.

In fact, the hard drive you had in mind, on Tom's hardware, has an average throughput of 86.6 MB/s. The max throughput is slightly higher then the spec, but it will go down as time goes along and the hard drive fills.

Basically, all you need is a SATA enclosure with a FW800 connector.

 

[nanofrog]

Yep. I believe all MacPros have two of them. The full spec calls for 400 MB/s full duplex, but the spec when introduced (2002) was ~100 MB/s full duplex (from Wikipedia)... I know that currently most disc drives aren't hindered by the halved speed of SATA I (150 MB/s) as compared to SATA II.

In fact, the hard drive you had in mind, on Tom's hardware, has an average throughput of 86.6 MB/s. The max throughput is slightly higher then the 2002 1493b spec, but it will go down as time goes along and the hard drive fills.

Basically, all you need is a SATA enclosure with a FW800 connector.

The spec is FW400 = 400Mb/s (Mega bit / sec), and FW800 = 800Mb/s. Divide by 8 to get MB/s.

So FW400 = 50MB/s and FW800 = 100MB/s (Mega Byte / sec).

Easy to get it mixed up, but makes a big difference.

That said, eSATA is faster (1.5Gb/s = 187.5MB/s max throughput), and is actually less expensive. It's the better way to go.

 

[Dr.Pants]

The spec is FW400 = 400Mb/s (Mega bit / sec), and FW800 = 800Mb/s. Divide by 8 to get MB/s.

So FW400 = 50MB/s and FW800 = 100MB/s (Mega Byte / sec).

Easy to get it mixed up, but makes a big difference.

That said, eSATA is faster (1.5Gb/s = 187.5MB/s max throughput), and is actually less expensive. It's the better way to go.

I don't doubt you Nano, I was almost quoting Wikipedia. I did say 100 MB/s as defined in 2002.

But I concede the point. Something about Beta Mode I missed big time? (besides the word "beta")

Thanks for the info on B and b, but I've had to correct other people on this before. And I figured that FW800 was that straightforward, but... cursed cross-referencing!

 

[nanofrog]

I don't doubt you Nano, I was almost quoting Wikipedia. I did say 100 MB/s as defined in 2002.

But I concede the point. Something about Beta Mode I missed big time? (besides the word "beta")

Thanks for the info on B and b, but I've had to correct other people on this before. And I figured that FW800 was that straightforward, but... cursed cross-referencing!

Wiki's gotten better, but it's not perfect. It's also really easy to hit b instead of B, and vice versa. I've done it too many times to count, and have to go back and fix it. Proof reading has revealed my penchant for such mistakes on numerous occassions. I'm a lousy typist.

BTW, "Beta" usually reffers to the connector. It got smaller, and was incompatible with the previous one. It can also reffer to the different encoding spec used in the first version of FW800.

 

[gugucom]

Some points to observe with the intended configuration.

1. Your eSATA from ODD ports are not hot plug. So take care.

2. The dock you are looking for is not made for long term use. The heat from long term use can melt the case and short circuit the controller.

3. The vertical arrangement of the HDD drives in the dock makes the pickup fall down every time the power is switched off. It is a bit of a nasty noise and I don't know how long the drives will make it that way.

 

[nanofrog]

Some points to observe with the intended configuration.

1. Your eSATA from ODD ports are not hot plug. So take care.

Unfortunately, none of the SATA ports on the MP support hot swapping (no driver support in the client edition of OS X), nor hot-plugging (no Inrush Current Limiter in the PSU or on the logic board).

2. The dock you are looking for is not made for long term use. The heat from long term use can melt the case and short circuit the controller.

These are very good points. I wasn't sure if the drive would be intended as temporary (swapped out) or not, and decided not to mention it. Shame on me.

Bringing it to the OP's attention is a good call.

A metal enclosure would be better. A fan in it wouldn't be a bad idea either.

3. The vertical arrangement of the HDD drives in the dock makes the pickup fall down every time the power is switched off. It is a bit of a nasty noise and I don't know how long the drives will make it that way.

I'm not quite understanding you on the "pickup fall down". Do you mean the armature on the servo (holds the heads)?

 

[gugucom]

I'm not quite sure what is causing that noise but I imagine the thing that holds the heads is the only mechanical piece that can fall down inside the drive. It makes a clunking noise which doesn't sound beneficial.

 

[echoout]

Did you say what compression scheme/format you'll be editing with?

I've been cutting video game trailers for a big publisher using 10-bit uncompressed 1080p game caps.

I use a Sonnet Tempo SATA E4P PCI-e card with a Sonnet Fusion D500P port-multiplier eSATA enclosure full of 1TB enterprise Seagate Barracuda ES.2 drives striped RAID-0. Works great. I can play back the uncompressed captures without issue. It's cool and quiet and only requires one eSATA cable, leaving the other ports open for my other enclosures.

 

[nanofrog]

I'm not quite sure what is causing that noise but I imagine the thing that holds the heads is the only mechanical piece that can fall down inside the drive. It makes a clunking noise which doesn't sound beneficial.

It is. But I'm so used to enterprise drives, and they dont' do it (parks their heads first during a proper shut down). So vertical or horizontal mounting isn't an issue. IIRC, even consumer drives are supposed to do this now (I seem to recall this being added to the spec some time back).

It could be a problem with any drive though, particularly if the drive is powered off before any park instruction is executed/completed.

Any particular drives a problem/details that would help?

 

[MattRobertson]

Did you say what compression scheme/format you'll be editing with?

I've been cutting video game trailers for a big publisher using 10-bit uncompressed 1080p game caps.

I use a Sonnet Tempo SATA E4P PCI-e card with a Sonnet Fusion D500P port-multiplier eSATA enclosure full of 1TB enterprise Seagate Barracuda ES.2 drives striped RAID-0. Works great. I can play back the uncompressed captures without issue. It's cool and quiet and only requires one eSATA cable, leaving the other ports open for my other enclosures.

I edit alot of 720p60p pro res footage transcoded from my panasonic hmc150 avchd cam

 

[RPJones]

Internal solution

If you're second optical drive bay is empty, you might consider this:

http://www.maxupgrades.com/istore/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=158

2 sata drives in the spare optical bay direct connected to the spare sata ports on the mother board.

I've striped them and use them as the system drive. The 4 other drives in the bays below are raided together as the working drive.

Works well.

 

[justaregularjoe]

What about External Storage? For example, the WD MyBook Studio II has both esata and RAID 0 or 1! Like done, done, and done. THen just get one of the PCI socket braces that have the 2 sata cords dangling off, as ship with gigabyte boards, direct connect to the spare sata ports on the MP's MB.


EDIT: CLICKSTERS! oops. fail you already have that.

AND: A GUY WHO DID IT! but have you seen this one?