External dock issue, affects all M4 Macs & 4K monitors. MacOS dock gets stuck halfway up screen after waking from display (not system) sleep.

[seggy]

This isn't dependent on which specific docks are attached: It occurs to different degrees across TB3 / 4 and 5 docks, and across various specs of Minis and Studios.

After the system is in display sleep, the dock appears halfway up the screen - i.e. if it were *native* WQHD which suddenly found itself being displayed on a 4K monitor. No system / desktop / dock setting seems to help.

This is *if* the dock appears. It will often not appear (especially when I allow the systems to sleep, not just display sleep), but I can eventually get it to appear as again after launching and quitting various applications and to appear if it was a native WQHD screen superimposed on top of a 4K screen.

The issue seems to actually be made worse by more modern monitors which sometimes don't seem to wake up after sleep without being turned off and back on.

Does anyone have a permanent solution to this? It's such a basic problem it shouldn't even need fixing. I DO NOT want to hear "should have got a Studio Display" but I will explore all other avenues I haven't already.

 

[PaulD-UK]

@seggy "It occurs to different degrees across TB3 / 4 and 5 docks, and across various specs of Minis and Studios."

So the thing that is 'constant' is the cables and monitor(s)?
Or does it occur 'across all cables and monitors'?

i.e. 'across all Macs, all TB docks, all ports, all cables, all monitors'?

Since this is highly non-typical, whatever is 'constant' 'across all devices etc' must be the problem?
Unless you're next door to a 345,000 to 765,000 VAC mains sub-station?

Are you running any unusual software, particularly with bespoke 'graphics' drivers?

 

[Bigwaff]

"External dock issue, affects all M4 Macs & 4K monitors. MacOS dock gets stuck halfway up screen after waking from display (not system) sleep."

Not discounting the issue exists for your setup but if it actually occurred on all M4 Macs & 4K monitors, I have to believe this would be a widespread issue covered across all Mac related media. It's the first I've heard of it. Please provide some very specific details of your setup... tech specs for everything.

 

[seggy]

It affects all my M4 Macs and 4K monitors on external docks.
M4 Pro Mini, M4 Max Studio (all of them that are on docks with second/third monitors)
A variety of docks - Belkin TB3 Pro, Amazon TB4 Pro, Kensington TB5 EQ, etc
A variety of Dell and Samsung 4K monitors

Rather obviously it doesn't happen in single-monitor situations which some of my M4 Macs are since this appears to be a display scaling on wake issue

 

[PaulD-UK]

@seggy The most obvious cause of 'monitor-wake' scaling problems is where you are connecting too many high resolution 4+K monitors to a single dock.
If all the monitors require too much bandwidth (usually because one or more are set to more than 60Hz (=120+Hz), the other monitor may have less bandwidth, so may run at WQHD 1440p resolution, instead of 4K.

A TB3/TB4 dock can only handle more than one 4K monitor from DP/HDMI ports at 60Hz.
To get higher bandwidth one monitor must be USB-C or TB3/4, plugged into a downstream TB3/4 port.

If you plug two USB-C (or TB3/4) monitors into two TB4 ports on a dock, then they must support DSC - which AS Mx Macs and modern monitors do, but pre-2020+ monitors probably won't.

 

[Slartibart]

A bit late, but: which version of macOS? what M4 models? Monitor models, dock specifics… Tech specs, as @Bigwaff already pointed out, are important.

 

[seggy]

Every machine is up to date. The equipment, as listed above, is varied enough to be a universal problem.

I really do wonder sometimes how many Mac users work with more than one monitor let alone three as a percentage, over the years I've had neverending minor issues with multiple displays with The World's Most Advanced OS but this current sitch is new with M4/Sequoia and extra annoying.

Since the issue is resolved by a logout I can probably solve it by scripting some killalls on display wake but I shouldn't need to - this is basic. I've gone through every solution that I can / will practically address with Google / GPT and where I am currently at is GPT just acknowledging it's an issue (yes, I do have custom instructions to kick all the sycophant stuff to the kerb).

 

[Slartibart]

I understand it is annoying, but

variety of Dell and Samsung 4K monitors

Every machine is up to date.

this is still a quite vague description - what monitor models?
Does the problem occur when you connect these monitors directly to the M4?
Are you running the macOS beta 3?
The Dell monitors have some hardware-side settings (USB-C Prioritization, DDC/CI~ Off) - and there might be a firmware update available. Same Samsung monitors - which monitor firmware are you running? What hardware settings? You use e.g. the original cables which came with the displays?
For the Dell then after checking the hardware as well as the macOS settings - do you run LCD Conditioning?
Are you using the Dell Display and Peripheral Manager Application?
What actually are the resolution settings on the monitors?
Similar for the Samsung monitors - which, with what, how?
What does the system log in the console report after the issue occurred?

As @Bigwaff said, this is not a common issue. knowing the details might offer some points to help here - in my workplace several colleagues and me use M4 Sudios (or Macbooks) connected 2 Dell U2725QE without the problems you encounter (some run at least temporarily 3 monitor setup, but the 3rd monitor is always directly connected). I have to check where and which TB4/TB5 docks involved in these setups for the others and will report back in this, for what’s worth, I use a Kensington SD5000T5 TB 5 with 2 of the mentioned Dell U2725QE and have not encountered your problem. I use BetterDisplay, but also there I have to check the exact settings, because display settings are something which I think I have actually only tackled for a while when setting something initially up 😃

Which brings me to your description of docks, quote: "Amazon TB4 Pro" <- this is not the generic search term but a distinct TB4 dock?

EDIT: does the problem occur when after a restart plain macOS runs and you lock the screen and the screen saver comes up and you then log in again?

​

 

[seggy]

The issue occurs when the machines are left and the display goes to sleep. All Macs are currently set to Automatic / prevent automatic sleep, 10 min display off. When the systems wake up, the docks are as described, and sometimes unresponsive (the rest of the system still works and new apps can be launched from Finder) for a while at least.

- I have no screen saver.

- All the external monitors (as I said, various makers / models in matched pairs / threes) are connected to the docks via Displayport with a variety of direct cables and USB-C->Displayport socket adapters which have worked fine on Intel Macs and PC's. All center/primary monitors are connected via onboard HDMI.

- All monitors run at 4k "like 1440p", 60hz or over.

- The monitors are not the problem, if they are I would have replaced them. These get switched in and out with my more trouble-free Winux systems as and when their number changes or I replace various things either on the Mac or Winux side and they work / have worked normally with industry standard systems / GPU's.

- The docks I can't speak for - they're only used with Macs, since these are the only systems that I pay $3-10K for then have to stump up an additional $200-500 for external connectivity that would be standard / onboard options for a pro $3k workstation, as well as leaving my desk looking like a Tokyo neighbourhood in the process. They include the Belkin TB3 Pro, the Caldigit TS3 Plus, the Amazon Pro TB4 dock (suspiciously similar to a Sonnet dock), and the Kensington SD5000T5 EQ.

THe variety of systems are sufficient to confirm that when there is a setup where
a) the system is M4 (since my issues span M4, M4 Pro, M4 Max)
b) the OS is Sequoia
c) the onboard display socket is used, and TB docks are used for one or more external displays with Displayport connections

This issue manifests.

Because I expect each system to "just work", alas, and I have so many of these spread across my estate, there is not a lot of customisation to each - I just don't have the time or the interest in doing that. There is only just enough to get around the decidedly non-pro SMB handling and the complete lack of usable window management and basic firewalling - as well as tools such as mesh VPN. The flipside of that is that every Mac, where appropriate, is configured in exactly the same way.

I now have a very simple scripted solution to this problem that consistently works (kill/restart dock on display wake). I just think it's ludicrous I have to use it.

 

[PaulD-UK]

@seggy "All monitors run at 4k "like 1440p", 60hz or over."

In other words you are running your 4K monitors in HiDPI 'looks like 1440p' mode, which makes no difference to the bandwidth needed. If you run at (60Hz) or over, then if you are running at 120Hz you are doubling the bandwidth needed, and at 144Hz you are using 2.4 times.

The centre HDMI monitors should all have no problem - with their own single connection, I presume?

Here are some quotes from the dock manufacturers web pages:

Belkin TB3 Pro:
Has Dual Monitor Support 4K (3840 x 2160) @ 60Hz.

Caldigit TS3 Plus:
Supports one DP1.2 4K/60Hz monitor and one USB-C 4K/60Hz monitor from the downstream TB3 port.

Amazon Pro TB4 dock:
Supports dual 4K@60Hz displays via two Thunderbolt 4 USB-C ports.

Kensington SD5000T5 EQ:
M1/M2/M3/M4 Pro and Max, support up to two 6K monitors at 60Hz.

So only the Kensington TB5 dock is specified to support dual 4K/120+Hz monitors.

The Caldigit can only do one at 60Hz, the Belkin Pro and Amazon Pro docks can probably do one 4K/120+Hz monitor through their downstream TB4 ports.

If you use a DisplayPort or HDMI port on any of these TB3/4 docks, it will only do 4K/60Hz.

The Amazon Pro TB4 dock web page EXACTLY describes your problem.
"Avoid connect HDMI port firstly to prevent resolution downgrade due to bandwidth limitations."

If you connect more than one high-rate 120/144Hz monitors to a dock that only supports two 60Hz monitors,
the one that connects first will run at 4K/120+Hz,
and the other monitor will start later,
running at 1440p pixels Picture in Picture (quarter frame) due to resolution downgrade due to bandwidth limitations.

The solution is to never connect two 120/144Hz monitors to one dock, except to the Kensington.
Never connect more than one 60Hz monitor to the Caldigit TS1 plus.
Never connect two monitors to the Belkin or Amazon docks unless they are both set to 60Hz.