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External storage solutions with 40 Gb/s?

Silly John Fatty

Silly John Fatty

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Nov 6, 2012
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Since the Minis storage options are so expensive: What possibilities can you recommend me to get external SSD storage at 40 Gb/s? (I want that speed because that’s approximately the read & write speeds of the Mini’s internal drives and I need those speeds)

From what I’ve heard I should get NVME SSDs and put them in a Thunderbolt enclosure.

The thing is, a TB port only allows up to 22 Gb/s for data transfer.

So I guess I’ll have to use two ports somehow? Could that do any damage to the Mac?

I also have a 27 LED cinema display, so I have to keep in mind that I will have to connect this one somewhere as well.

I am looking for a solution that’s safe and won't risk doing any harm to the Mac. I hope to keep this system for the next 10 years if possible.

Thanks peeps :)
 
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On the SSD side you need RAID arrays to utilize their parallel performance.

I don't know what cable can run 40GB/s. You may need to invest something like fiber optic cables with link aggregation. Those are usually for interconnecting supercomputer nodes.

Not recommend going that way because it will be way more than cost prohibitive, and the mini would be the bottleneck.
 
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Silly John Fatty said:
I want that speed because that’s approximately the read & write speeds of the Mini’s internal drives and I need those speeds)
Click to expand...

Which Mini and configuration do you have or are you considering buying?

Depending on the internal configuration and model an internal SSD can run in the range of 1500-3000 MB/s which can be pretty much be matched by a thunderbolt port. It will be very difficult to exceed those internal speeds externally since the fastest ports you have are thunderbolt. If you have enough ports have read about aggregating them, but have never tried.

Why you "need" 40 GB/s?
 
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DarkPremiumCho said:
On the SSD side you need RAID arrays to utilize their parallel performance.

I don't know what cable can run 40GB/s. You may need to invest something like fiber optic cables with link aggregation. Those are usually for interconnecting supercomputer nodes.

Not recommend going that way because it will be way more than cost prohibitive, and the mini would be the bottleneck.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Sounds complicated. Also why do you think the Mini will be the bottleneck?

HDFan said:
Which Mini and configuration do you have or are you considering buying?

Depending on the internal configuration and model an internal SSD can run in the range of 1500-3000 MB/s which can be pretty much be handled by a thunderbolt port. It will be very difficult to exceed those internal speeds externally since the fastest ports you have are thunderbolt. If you have enough ports have read about aggregating them, but have never tried.

Why you "need" 40 GB/s?
Click to expand...

I’m thinking of buying the M2 Pro with the 12-core CPU, 32 GB RAM and 4 TB storage.

I’d get the 8 TB model if it wasn’t that expensive. But the ability to flexibly increase external storage over time/as needed is a good plan anyway.

I just want to make sure it’s as fast as the Mini’s internal storage so that I feel no real difference.

From what I’ve read/people have reported, the M2 Pro’s read & write speeds for 1TB+ models are somewhere around 5000+ MB/s. That’s around 40 Gbit/s.

I need that speed because I was turned down by several women when I mentioned I was still using old SATA SSDs. It’s not what women look for anymore these days! So I hope this will boost my Tinder profile and I’ll have something to talk about on first dates.
 
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You can get an external Thunderbolt enclosure that connects to the NVMe SSD via PCIe 3.0 x4. The maximum throughput is around 3.5GB/s which comes out to around 30Gbps. That does not fully max out the 40Gbps Thunderbolt port, but it's above the 22Gbps you mentioned.

Silly John Fatty said:
The thing is, a TB port only allows up to 22 GB/s for data transfer.
Click to expand...
No? The TB3 and TB4 USB-C ports on most Macs support up to 40Gbps. The exception being older Intel Macbooks where not all Thunderbolt ports can do the full speed.
 
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Now that I've cleared the tears from my eyes the reality is that in only very rare occasions do you need that speed. Even if you are doing video it is the transcoding which is going to be the major limiting factor assuming you are using fast external storage. I have a RAID 5 external drive connected via thunderbolt and it can handle all video editing up to 8K, and can even do most 12K.

Blackmagic Promise32 R8.png

If you don't have a display on a thunderbolt port Apple documentation says you can get up to 40 Gbps.

USB 4 data-transfer speeds up to 40Gbps

About the Apple Thunderbolt Pro Cables - Apple Support

Connect a Mac, iPhone, or iPad to a display or external device using the Thunderbolt 5, Thunderbolt 4, Thunderbolt 3, or USB-C port on each device.
support.apple.com support.apple.com
 
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okkibs said:
You can get an external Thunderbolt enclosure that connects to the NVMe SSD via PCIe 3.0 x4. The maximum throughput is around 3.5GB/s which comes out to around 30Gbps. That does not fully max out the 40Gbps Thunderbolt port, but it's above the 22Gbps you mentioned.


No? The TB3 and TB4 USB-C ports on most Macs support up to 40Gbps. The exception being older Intel Macbooks where not all Thunderbolt ports can do the full speed.
Click to expand...

Which element is it that limits it to 30 Gb/s? I mean this is still very good, I'm just curious.

And I don't know who told me about the 22 Gb/s. I get so many different informations from so many sides, lol.

HDFan said:
Best laugh I've had so far this year.
Click to expand...
HDFan said:
Now that I've cleared the tears from my eyes the reality is that in only very rare occasions do you need that speed.
Click to expand...

Those occasions are very rare indeeed!

HDFan said:
Even if you are doing video it is the transcoding which is going to be the major limiting factor assuming you are using fast external storage. I have a RAID 5 external drive connected via thunderbolt and it can handle all video editing up to 8K, and can even do most 12K.

View attachment 2218873

If you don't have a display on a thunderbolt port Apple documentation says you can get up to 40 Gbps.

USB 4 data-transfer speeds up to 40Gbps

About the Apple Thunderbolt Pro Cables - Apple Support

Connect a Mac, iPhone, or iPad to a display or external device using the Thunderbolt 5, Thunderbolt 4, Thunderbolt 3, or USB-C port on each device.
support.apple.com support.apple.com
Click to expand...

That disk speed test, is it from said RAID system? How come it's not faster, or is it your enclosure that limits the speed?

I think I'll need one port for my 27" LED Cinema Display. It's not the Thunderbolt version (but the same display), but I'll have to get a Thunderbolt converter to connect it. Maybe I can connect it to the HDMI port as well, I haven't informed myself yet.
 
Silly John Fatty said:
And I don't know who told me about the 22 Gb/s. I get so many different informations from so many sides, lol.
Click to expand...
22 Gbps was in the original Intel marketing materials for Thunderbolt 3. That's 2750 MB/s. Some manufactures of Thunderbolt storage devices rounded that up to 2800 MB/s. Later/recent benchmarks have gotten as high as 25 Gbps and maybe 26 Gbps. I think some USB4 benchmarks have shown higher.

A Thunderbolt device is limited to 31.5 Gbps (PCIe gen 3) max. A normal PCIe slot can get to 3500 MB/s easily which is 28 Gbps.

Maybe you can get 5 GB/s (40 Gbps) using a RAID 0 of NVMe devices connected to each Thunderbolt port of the Apple Silicon Mac mini.

A similar RAID 0 for Thunderbolt of MacBook Pro with Intel Ice Lake CPU (2020 13-inch (4 Thunderbolt 3 ports)) reached 4.7 GB/s. Ice Lake has integrated Thunderbolt like Apple Silicon but different.
https://egpu.io/forums/postid/81885/

For Intel Macs with discrete Thunderbolt controllers, the Thunderbolt devices need to be connected to separate Thunderbolt controllers (there's two ports per Thunderbolt controller so you need to use one port from each controller). A 2019 MacBook Pro was able to get 4.8 Gb/s.
https://egpu.io/forums/postid/81898/
 
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Silly John Fatty said:
Which element is it that limits it to 30 Gb/s?
Click to expand...
The internal SSD connector of NVMe enclosures. I think to get more you'd need a PCIe gen 5 enclosure, these are coming in the near future: https://www.techpowerup.com/303171/...gen-4-ssds-and-more-storage-products-this-ces

But then you'll already hit the Thunderbolt 4 limits, you'd need a Thunderbolt 5 computer to use all that performance, and those do not exist yet. The first Macs that will have it should release until end of 2024, perhaps early 2025.

But you don't need any of that, just get a NVMe enclosure that connects 4 PCIe lanes. The cheaper ones only connect 2 lanes, cutting bandwidth in half.
 
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joevt said:
22 Gbps was in the original Intel marketing materials for Thunderbolt 3. That's 2750 MB/s. Some manufactures of Thunderbolt storage devices rounded that up to 2800 MB/s. Later/recent benchmarks have gotten as high as 25 Gbps and maybe 26 Gbps. I think some USB4 benchmarks have shown higher.

A Thunderbolt device is limited to 31.5 Gbps (PCIe gen 3) max. A normal PCIe slot can get to 3500 MB/s easily which is 28 Gbps.

Maybe you can get 5 GB/s (40 Gbps) using a RAID 0 of NVMe devices connected to each Thunderbolt port of the Apple Silicon Mac mini.

A similar RAID 0 for Thunderbolt of MacBook Pro with Intel Ice Lake CPU (2020 13-inch (4 Thunderbolt 3 ports)) reached 4.7 GB/s. Ice Lake has integrated Thunderbolt like Apple Silicon but different.
https://egpu.io/forums/postid/81885/

For Intel Macs with discrete Thunderbolt controllers, the Thunderbolt devices need to be connected to separate Thunderbolt controllers (there's two ports per Thunderbolt controller so you need to use one port from each controller). A 2019 MacBook Pro was able to get 4.8 Gb/s.
https://egpu.io/forums/postid/81898/
Click to expand...

Thanks, that was very useful. I will probably get myself some NVME SSDs and put them in a corresponding enclosure. I'll merge them in a RAID setting then and that should be it.

Since I'll need to use two ports from two different controllers: Do the other ports of that same controller become unusable then? Is there even potential danger to damage them if I do so?

okkibs said:
The internal SSD connector of NVMe enclosures. I think to get more you'd need a PCIe gen 5 enclosure, these are coming in the near future: https://www.techpowerup.com/303171/...gen-4-ssds-and-more-storage-products-this-ces

But then you'll already hit the Thunderbolt 4 limits, you'd need a Thunderbolt 5 computer to use all that performance, and those do not exist yet. The first Macs that will have it should release until end of 2024, perhaps early 2025.

But you don't need any of that, just get a NVMe enclosure that connects 4 PCIe lanes. The cheaper ones only connect 2 lanes, cutting bandwidth in half.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for this info!
 
Silly John Fatty said:
Since the Minis storage options are so expensive: What possibilities can you recommend me to get external SSD storage at 40 GB/s? (I want that speed because that’s approximately the read & write speeds of the Mini’s internal drives and I need those speeds)

From what I’ve heard I should get NVME SSDs and put them in a Thunderbolt enclosure.

The thing is, a TB port only allows up to 22 GB/s for data transfer.

So I guess I’ll have to use two ports somehow? Could that do any damage to the Mac?

I also have a 27 LED cinema display, so I have to keep in mind that I will have to connect this one somewhere as well.

I am looking for a solution that’s safe and won't risk doing any harm to the Mac. I hope to keep this system for the next 10 years if possible.

Thanks peeps :)
Click to expand...
Wait, what ? What Mac mini do you have

Even the highest end model is NOWHERE near as fast as 40gB/s , where did you get these figures from?

Did the joke flew over my head ?
 
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Love-hate 🍏 relationship said:
Wait, what ? What Mac mini do you have

Even the highest end model is NOWHERE near as fast as 40gB/s , where did you get these figures from?

Did the joke flew over my head ?
Click to expand...

I don't have one yet, but am planing to buy the M2 Pro with 4 TB (but now I'm thinking of buying the 8 TB one actually).

40 Gbit/s = 5000 MB/s. Do not confuse Bits and Bytes. Gb = Gigabit. GB = Gigabyte. Mb = Megabit. MB = Megabyte. They're not the same. I'm not very tech savvy, so maybe I mixed up something, but I used a converter specially for that.

Some models have actually more than those 40 Gb/s (according to what people have reported):

https://www.reddit.com/r/macmini/comments/10ns2jg
https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/10kr920
 
Silly John Fatty said:
I don't have one yet, but am planing to buy the M2 Pro with 4 TB (but now I'm thinking of buying the 8 TB one actually).

40 Gbit/s = 5000 MB/s. Do not confuse Bits and Bytes. Gb = Gigabit. GB = Gigabyte. Mb = Megabit. MB = Megabyte. They're not the same. I'm not very tech savvy, so maybe I mixed up something, but I used a converter specially for that.

Some models have actually more than those 40 Gb/s (according to what people have reported):

https://www.reddit.com/r/macmini/comments/10ns2jg
https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/10kr920
Click to expand...
I'm aware , but you wrote 40GB/s in your post haha

yeah 1 byte = 1 bit iirc
 
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Silly John Fatty said:
I don't have one yet, but am planing to buy the M2 Pro with 4 TB (but now I'm thinking of buying the 8 TB one actually).

40 Gbit/s = 5000 MB/s. Do not confuse Bits and Bytes. Gb = Gigabit. GB = Gigabyte. Mb = Megabit. MB = Megabyte. They're not the same. I'm not very tech savvy, so maybe I mixed up something, but I used a converter specially for that.

Some models have actually more than those 40 Gb/s (according to what people have reported):

https://www.reddit.com/r/macmini/comments/10ns2jg
https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/10kr920
Click to expand...
but yeah you should get much more than that if we're talking in bits

mbp SSDs go over 7000mB/s, so roughly 60 000mb/s
 
Love-hate 🍏 relationship said:
no worries lol . oh is it ? I didn't pay attention

just wanted to make sure since, as you said yourself, many people arent aware of bits and bytes
Click to expand...

Of course, no probs. :)

I've been thoroughly looking into it now, and tbh I'm not sure if I'm not just going to speed an additional 1000 Euros just to get the 8 TB Mac Mini. It makes practically no price difference compared to getting NVME SSDs, then you need the additional enclosure, maybe cables, etc.

But instead, you have everything in one box and you can take that Mac Mini with yourself on travels.

Does any of you guys know, in regards of SSD health, if it is better to have one big SSD (e.g. 8 TB) or rather two smaller ones (2 * 4 TB e.g.)?

I'll probably open a new thread for this. I believe this is the last factor before I take a decision and finally order that thing.
 
Silly John Fatty said:
Of course, no probs. :)

I've been thoroughly looking into it now, and tbh I'm not sure if I'm not just going to speed an additional 1000 Euros just to get the 8 TB Mac Mini. It makes practically no price difference compared to getting NVME SSDs, then you need the additional enclosure, maybe cables, etc.

But instead, you have everything in one box and you can take that Mac Mini with yourself on travels.

Does any of you guys know, in regards of SSD health, if it is better to have one big SSD (e.g. 8 TB) or rather two smaller ones (2 * 4 TB e.g.)?

I'll probably open a new thread for this. I believe this is the last factor before I take a decision and finally order that thing.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure about your question sorry

however for what you said you do , if I get it right, you don't need such fast ssds, and might be better off saving money and not getting into a hassle of finding the faster drive, enclosure, cable, etc
 
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Love-hate 🍏 relationship said:
I'm not sure about your question sorry

however for what you said you do , if I get it right, you don't need such fast ssds, and might be better off saving money and not getting into a hassle of finding the faster drive, enclosure, cable, etc
Click to expand...

Oh yes, I need very fast SSDs! I hate slow stuff. :mad:

There's also no real price difference between getting a 8 TB Mac Mini, or getting a 4 TB Mac Mini and then 4 TB external storage. You'd think Apple is roasting us with their prices, but it's really comparable to other external systems, at least if you want to get comparable read & write speeds.
 
Silly John Fatty said:
Oh yes, I need very fast SSDs! I hate slow stuff. :mad:

There's also no real price difference between getting a 8 TB Mac Mini, or getting a 4 TB Mac Mini and then 4 TB external storage. You'd think Apple is roasting us with their prices, but it's really comparable to other external systems, at least if you want to get comparable read & write speeds.
Click to expand...
Wanna bet you'd probably not notice it? (obviously not talking about 7000mBps vs 500 lol )

What 4TB external drive are you looking into ? 4 to 8TB on a mini costs 1200$
 
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Love-hate 🍏 relationship said:
Wanna bet you'd probably not notice it? (obviously not talking about 7000mBps vs 500 lol )

What 4TB external drive are you looking into ? 4 to 8TB on a mini costs 1200$
Click to expand...

I would lol! I mean, sometimes at least … but it's gotta be future proof too. Video resolutions etc. will increase in the future, everything will get bigger, and so on.

For the external storage I've found Samsung NVME SSDs, they cost around 300 Euros for 2 TB. So 600 Euros for 4 TB, and then you still need an enclosure, which is another 300, perhaps you need a cable as well.

For that price, might as well go for Apple's option. In addition it takes up less space, it's more portable (I can literally take the Mini on vacation – it's possible to use an iPad as a screen for example, so it becomes a laptop), and you also have two free'd Thunderbolt ports (you need to use two ports if you want to make use of the full bandwidth/speed with the external storage).

The only difference is that it's pricey at once rather than pricey over a couple of years, and therefore you feel it more suddenly in your pocket, lol. Sometimes rational decisions appear harder than emotional ones. 🤔 Screw you, brain!
 
Silly John Fatty said:
I would lol! I mean, sometimes at least … but it's gotta be future proof too. Video resolutions etc. will increase in the future, everything will get bigger, and so on.

For the external storage I've found Samsung NVME SSDs, they cost around 300 Euros for 2 TB. So 600 Euros for 4 TB, and then you still need an enclosure, which is another 300, perhaps you need a cable as well.

For that price, might as well go for Apple's option. In addition it takes up less space, it's more portable (I can literally take the Mini on vacation – it's possible to use an iPad as a screen for example, so it becomes a laptop), and you also have two free'd Thunderbolt ports (you need to use two ports if you want to make use of the full bandwidth/speed with the external storage).

The only difference is that it's pricey at once rather than pricey over a couple of years, and therefore you feel it more suddenly in your pocket, lol. Sometimes rational decisions appear harder than emotional ones. 🤔 Screw you, brain!
Click to expand...
enclosures arent' that expensive ? but yeah you're not too far off from apple prices if so (still 300 bucks more lol)

BUT , your previous point , which I quote ". You'd think Apple is roasting us with their prices, but it's really comparable to other external systems, at least if you want to get comparable read & write speeds."


this is not true, take for example a dell xps 15/17 (and god knows dell prices and upgrades are expensive, doing the comparison with any other manufacturer would lead to even greater disparities, but let's proceed anyway, im too lazy to search more )

so, with apple , you get 6-7k speeds, and going from 4tb to 8tb costs you 1200 bucks, right?

with the xps 15 , you get the same speeds, except that going 4tb to 8tb costs you.... 600 dollars

do you see how apple is abusive with their prices ? and again , I chose dell, but other manufacturers can be even cheaper
 
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