Fearing the damage is done!

[paintmav]

Hello all,

Once again I've come to the macrumors forum to search out advice. I bought a Macpro on Tues. of this week against my better judgement. Long story short I had to purchase a new mac of somesort for video projects. I was planning on getting an iMac, to hold off for the Macpro upgrade. I was talked in by my friends on getting a Macpro now. Basically my question is this. Should I finish my current video project which will be done way before the 14 day return policy, and return the Macpro at that point and eat the $200+ dollar restocking fee, with plans to upgrade the second the update is released? Or should I be happy with what I got especially with the talk of the FSB/Quickpath transition. I had a $200 gift card so the restocking fee would be a wash. I know my mac stuff, and the upgradeability in the current Macpro would be more then enough for my current needs. I also know myself well enough to no that when the mac virus hits me, I have trouble not wanting/getting the latest greatest. I know it's all subjective but any advice would be great. Thanks in advance for the help.(sorry for the novella size post)

 

[product26]

If you have no problem eating the $200... return it when you are done with the project!

I am glad that I bought mine last November. It has been 'current' for almost a year now, and that is a pretty good feeling. Had Apple released a new revision only weeks after I purchased mine, I probably would have wanted to shoot myself. I purchased mine on a 18 month no interest deal, and because of all my other interests and projects, I am still slowly paying it off. It would have killed me inside to know that I was still paying for something that is technically out dated.

Hello all,

Once again I've come to the macrumors forum to search out advice. I bought a Macpro on Tues. of this week against my better judgement. Long story short I had to purchase a new mac of somesort for video projects. I was planning on getting an iMac, to hold off for the Macpro upgrade. I was talked in by my friends on getting a Macpro now. Basically my question is this. Should I finish my current video project which will be done way before the 14 day return policy, and return the Macpro at that point and eat the $200+ dollar restocking fee, with plans to upgrade the second the update is released? Or should I be happy with what I got especially with the talk of the FSB/Quickpath transition. I had a $200 gift card so the restocking fee would be a wash. I know my mac stuff, and the upgradeability in the current Macpro would be more then enough for my current needs. I also know myself well enough to no that when the mac virus hits me, I have trouble not wanting/getting the latest greatest. I know it's all subjective but any advice would be great. Thanks in advance for the help.(sorry for the novella size post)

 

[tribe3]

Let's say that your video project is for a client. And let's say that you give your client a 14 day return period; and now let's say that your client uses your video project and returns it before the 14 days are over...

 

[motoxpress]

I don't understand why everyone is so panicked about the MacPro upgrades. The current system is a killer computer. The potential upgrades to the MacPro are not that huge and who knows when they are going to come. I have a MBP Core duo and I have not found any less productivity with it because there were TWO updates to the MBPs since. Mine is still just as capable and I have done a lot of work with it before and after the new updates came out. I don't have ANY regret and I won't have any when Apple updates the MacPro either. I love mine and it makes me money.

If you need it now, get it. If you don't, then wait. It's simple. It sounds like you needed it and you got it. Be happy.

-mx

 

[product26]

how would you feel if you spent $2500 today and tomorrow you could have gotten a better system for the same price?

not everybody can throw their money around. perhaps people care about getting the most for their money.

I don't understand why everyone is so panicked about the MacPro upgrades.

 

[paintmav]

Let's say that your video project is for a client. And let's say that you give your client a 14 day return period; and now let's say that your client uses your video project and returns it before the 14 days are over...

Advice I appreciate, opinions I do not.

 

[CanadaRAM]

Advice I appreciate, opinions I do not.

Yr in the wrong internet forum then, friend. MR is an opinionated bunch.

 

[motoxpress]

how would you feel if you spent $2500 today and tomorrow you could have gotten a better system for the same price?

not everybody can throw their money around. perhaps people care about getting the most for their money.

We are not talking about tomorrow are we? It would be very surprising to see updates before 2008. If they had released something yesterday, Apple would allow him/her to return said computer (for a small restocking fee) and they could get the latest and greatest without an issue.

Now, to the original poster....you do realize how much of an overall performance difference it will be ,correct? Not substantial and only in specific tasks if you compare the current octo mac to the quad. Meanwhile, you sit around and wait for the latest and greatest to arrive and you are losing productivity time.

If you are a hobbyist, then just wait (or you should have waited). If you are trying to make money OR you are trying to improve your skills in the industry then there is no loss at all. A MacPro with 2-3 months of work behind it will have paid for itself easily many times both in terms of money and experience. When the updates do arrive and you have computer envy, sell the "old" MacPro and buy the new one. Simple.

These devices come and go ALL the time. It's the nature of the beast. What doesn't come so easily is the loss of opportunity and time.

-mx

 

[suneohair]

When you consider the idea that you may be able to buy a octo-core for the price of a quad-core the game changes a bit. Even if you don't need octo-core you would be setting yourself up for a long time. And, if they did offer quad-core you could save some money.

That is not to say one should wait or not. But spending money in a smart way isn't something only hobbyists should be doing, someone looking to make money should be doing it as well. This "rule" of "if you make money who cares" is non-sense but it seems to be a common argument around here which I think is bullocks.

Sure a Mac Pro might pay for itself. But what about when that one can't handle the workload anymore, in say a year or two? Regardless, it is presumptuous to assume that someone doing real work now and making money is in terrible need of a new machine (barring death of course). If that is the case, I can't see why someone would not wait, unless they need to have something new. The Mac Pro is well beyond a normal cycle. To buy now is not a smart purchase. That is of course my opinion, but one which is backed by evidence.

 

[paintmav]

We are not talking about tomorrow are we? It would be very surprising to see updates before 2008. If they had released something yesterday, Apple would allow him/her to return said computer (for a small restocking fee) and they could get the latest and greatest without an issue.

Now, to the original poster....you do realize how much of an overall performance difference it will be ,correct? Not substantial and only in specific tasks if you compare the current octo mac to the quad. Meanwhile, you sit around and wait for the latest and greatest to arrive and you are losing productivity time.

If you are a hobbyist, then just wait (or you should have waited). If you are trying to make money OR you are trying to improve your skills in the industry then there is no loss at all. A MacPro with 2-3 months of work behind it will have paid for itself easily many times both in terms of money and experience. When the updates do arrive and you have computer envy, sell the "old" MacPro and buy the new one. Simple.

These devices come and go ALL the time. It's the nature of the beast. What doesn't come so easily is the loss of opportunity and time.

-mx

Great, that's the advice I was looking for. Put in that perspective it is very easily acceptible. I know it's far fetched but does anyone think the revision will include all Octo? Sorry posted before post above.

 

[suneohair]

Great, that's the advice I was looking for. Put in that perspective it is very easily acceptable. I know it's far fetched but does anyone think the revision will include all Octo? Sorry posted before post above.

Chips prices suggest this and in some ways demand this. (2.83Ghz Harpertown will be the same price as the current Woodcrest 2.66Ghz) There is really nothing else for Apple to offer. Dual-core server chips (all chips in general really, but server first) are dying out. Intel is cutting its dual-core production and doing mostly quad-core in the next Xeon line.

I think it is very sensible to think the next Mac Pro will be all (base and up) Octo-core. To assume anything else is, in my opinion, is denying the progression of technology. Some may feel it is too big a jump. But is it? I think not. We will see in due time. But I expect it.

 

[FF_productions]

Great, that's the advice I was looking for. Put in that perspective it is very easily acceptible. I know it's far fetched but does anyone think the revision will include all Octo? Sorry posted before post above.

I don't see why not.

Last year, it was brand new and nice to have an all Quad Lineup.

The prices have come down even farther so I can see Apple with an all Octo Lineup.

 

[motoxpress]

Great, that's the advice I was looking for. Put in that perspective it is very easily acceptible. I know it's far fetched but does anyone think the revision will include all Octo? Sorry posted before post above.

Could be. However, I can tell you from the perspective of someone who does motion graphics professionally, you have to spend a good sum on memory to get the real performance out of an Octo machine. you have to have at least 1 gig of ram for every core to get the good numbers from something like After Effects or Photoshop (This is direct from Adobe BTW). So, plan to have at least 8 gigs of ram in there which by today's prices means another $800-$1,000.

This is why the 2.66 quad makes a lot of sense for a goo compromise. It's still very fast and productive - I can often have several tasks running simultaneously. However, if you are looking to improve render times and your projects will be more profitable because of it then get the Octo but, in this case I don't think the cost of the machine will matter all that much when compared to how much it will make in the said situation.

Hope this helps,

-mx

 

[weckart]

Advice I appreciate, opinions I do not.

What is the difference? Advice - be it legal, moral or in some way educational is based on an interpretation of facts or experience. In other words, opinion.

 

[motoxpress]

When you consider the idea that you may be able to buy a octo-core for the price of a quad-core the game changes a bit. Even if you don't need octo-core you would be setting yourself up for a long time. And, if they did offer quad-core you could save some money.

That is not to say one should wait or not. But spending money in a smart way isn't something only hobbyists should be doing, someone looking to make money should be doing it as well. This "rule" of "if you make money who cares" is non-sense but it seems to be a common argument around here which I think is bullocks.

Sure a Mac Pro might pay for itself. But what about when that one can't handle the workload anymore, in say a year or two? Regardless, it is presumptuous to assume that someone doing real work now and making money is in terrible need of a new machine (barring death of course). If that is the case, I can't see why someone would not wait, unless they need to have something new. The Mac Pro is well beyond a normal cycle. To buy now is not a smart purchase. That is of course my opinion, but one which is backed by evidence.

We are both assuming a lot. What will the person use the machine for? What kind of business are you talking about? It sounds different than what Iam discussing. Productivity and creativity is the primary factor where I am. If I pay $500 more for a machine now, that will be forgotten in the tax benefits and the hourly charge. When you have a suite that generates $100-$200/hour you are not goign to fret over a $500 difference.

So, a lot of this depends on what type of work the poster is doing. Sure, I could could video on an original G4, I did in fact. However, If I am running current software and I am looking to do intense rendering, yes a MacPro would be a good purchase REGARDLESS of the cycles because going from a 2.66 MacPro to a 3.0 is not a giant leap and meanwhile, I am getting my work done by a very worthy workstation.

I just don't see any "evidence" of why the original poster would be ill-advised to own the machine they own now if they are in fact doing post-production work. There is nothign they couldn't do with it that an updated machine would do. I am completely happy with my setup and don't see replacing it even if Apple does update other than perhaps a video card upgrade. I think people worry about having the latest and greatest a little too much and should spend more time thinking about what they can do with what's available.

-mx

 

[glhiii]

Extras with new upgrade

I would be surprised if the new MacPro doesn't appear with Leopard. Here's what probably you'll get extra: 1. new keyboard (if you like it); 2. 1 extra gig of RAM; 3. 4 extra cores (@ 3.0 ghz?); 4. Leopard; 5. 500 gb instead of 250 hard drive, 6. Better graphics card. If you add all this stuff up, it would cost more than $2000 after CA sales tax to upgrade the present entry-level MacPro to this config. The downside is that RAM may be more expensive and the machine may still have bugs. Some programs may not run properly on Leopard for a while. But I see no reason not to wait if you can.

 

[suneohair]

We are both assuming a lot. What will the person use the machine for? What kind of business are you talking about? It sounds different than what Iam discussing. Productivity and creativity is the primary factor where I am. If I pay $500 more for a machine now, that will be forgotten in the tax benefits and the hourly charge. When you have a suite that generates $100-$200/hour you are not goign to fret over a $500 difference.

So, a lot of this depends on what type of work the poster is doing. Sure, I could could video on an original G4, I did in fact. However, If I am running current software and I am looking to do intense rendering, yes a MacPro would be a good purchase REGARDLESS of the cycles because going from a 2.66 MacPro to a 3.0 is not a giant leap and meanwhile, I am getting my work done by a very worthy workstation.

I just don't see any "evidence" of why the original poster would be ill-advised to own the machine they own now if they are in fact doing post-production work. There is nothign they couldn't do with it that an updated machine would do. I am completely happy with my setup and don't see replacing it even if Apple does update other than perhaps a video card upgrade. I think people worry about having the latest and greatest a little too much and should spend more time thinking about what they can do with what's available.

-mx

When looking at a purchase though, you have to look at the value. Sure the Mac Pro is a great machine. However, it is very outdated. Technology has moved beyond and will soon move further on. Sure we can ascribe some number, say $500, to the loss in value. But when looking at a Quad-core $2500 computer today and a Octo-core $2500 computer shortly, that changes the game.

$500 is $500, no matter how much money you are making. Sure if one would be losing more than that naturally one would want to upgrade. But, again, only in the case of a dead machine would I say it is necessary to upgrade. If someone has been doing the same work, with the same machine up until this point, what is a few months more for something much better.

One could argue, buy it now and sell it later. But whats the point? You will obviously lose money just because it is used. So a $2500 Mac Pro, is worth what say $2200-$2400 (probably the lower range at this point), then you lose more from the update, here you would at least. On eBay one would fair better if they timed it right. That is not a fun game to play in my opinion.

I still agree with the buy it if you need it, wait if you don't. But it seems most just fall into the need "need something new" mindset and they buy.

Another argument is, "you will always be waiting for something new." That is not the case. The Mac Pro is well beyond a normal cycle. I would rather buy at the top of a cycle than at the end of one. Sure, Nehalem may hit late next year. But that is late next year.

If Apple is waiting for Penryn and Leopard, awesome. Sounds great to me. But one of the main reasons I won't buy is because of the stagnation in other areas, including the adoption of Clovertown only in the very high end.

Well that is all I have to say.

I would be surprised if the new MacPro doesn't appear with Leopard. Here's what probably you'll get extra: 1. new keyboard (if you like it); 2. 1 extra gig of RAM; 3. 4 extra cores (@ 3.0 ghz?); 4. Leopard; 5. 500 gb instead of 250 hard drive, 6. Better graphics card. If you add all this stuff up, it would cost more than $2000 after CA sales tax to upgrade the present entry-level MacPro to this config. The downside is that RAM may be more expensive and the machine may still have bugs. Some programs may not run properly on Leopard for a while. But I see no reason not to wait if you can.

3.0Ghz is not likely. A 2.83Ghz Harpertown seems to fit best with the current base config Mac Pro. The first Mac Pro didn't have many bugs, I think they are a little less likely to have problems because they are simple to work with. Design a huge case, do some custom silicon kick it out the door. Whereas notebooks and small computer require a bit more finessing.

 

[majordude]

Should I finish my current video project which will be done way before the 14 day return policy, and return the Macpro at that point and eat the $200+ dollar restocking fee...

Well, you can keep it and a few weeks before the next upgrade you could tell your insurance company that it was stolen. Sounds about as ethical as your present plan.

 

[netdog]

I have really lost faith that Harpertown Octos are coming to Mac any time soon.

 

[sotied]

Smaller MacBook Pros, 12-Inches!!

Here's an excerpt from my talk with an Apple rep about the new Macbookpromini. Or MacBook Pro Mini as the name will likely appear.

You: One last quickie.
*

Apple: Sure
*

You: Pretend with me here. If you were me, and you had heard these unconfirmed and probably unsubstantiated comments, would you risk buying now or maybe wait 20 days to see if the middle of the month brought something? Since your iBook wasn't dead yet and you're not doing much battery-only work anyhow?
*

Apple: Just another minute...
*

You: No problem.
*

Apple: I might try to find out more from Apple.
*

You: How could I do that?
*

You: I thought you were the path to Apple?
*

Apple: Just continue to visit the site and ask like you are now.
*

Apple: Besides Apple makes CNN on a regular basis.
*

Apple: You will hear the news.
*

You: So I should come back every day?
*

Apple: I do not like to speculate.
*

You: That's fine.
*

Apple: Yes I would.
*

Apple: You never know.
*

You: Thanks very much.


If I'm to read into that, she's saying that definitely, we're getting a 12-inch MacBook Pro Mini in mid October.

 

[Wild-Bill]

Here's an excerpt from my talk with an Apple rep about the new Macbookpromini. Or MacBook Pro Mini as the name will likely appear...........
[...]
If I'm to read into that, she's saying that definitely, we're getting a 12-inch MacBook Pro Mini in mid October.

Um, ok........ What does that have to do with new Mac Pros??

 

[Eric Piercey]

Very good points made on both sides of the argument.

I think it's pretty clear cut here that it all depends on one's situation.

1. As was stated, if one's current machine is dead and they're losing productivity because of it, by all means buy now.

2. If one's machine is dead but they're not currently in need of it, AND they mind taking a value hit, wait.

3. If one's current machine is working fine, but the value hit they'd take when the upgrades come wouldn't matter, buy away.

4. If one's current machine is working fine but they're in the positition or mindset of wanting to get the best value, wait.

5. If one is completely obsessed with the desire to buy a new machine come hell or high water regardless of value fluctuations, buy now, sell when the upgrades come, heck buy 15 of them.

Those are the options. It isn't rocket science.

Short answer, for those rational people who aren't rich, wait.

 

[netdog]

Um, ok........ What does that have to do with new Mac Pros??

He is mistaken about one thing. What is coming is The All-New Mac Pro Mini!!!

Same small form factor. Dual-link DVI. Mini PCI slots. 1600 MHz FSB. 4 x 1.8" drive bays. 8800 graphics. Up to 16GB of RAM. 2 x Quad Core Harpertowns.

This thing is gonna smoke (literally).

 

[pprior]

Advice: don't be a scammer.

Returning the mac pro after you've done the project is nothing other than being dishonest. Keep it, enjoy it, and don't worry about the next upgrade being a bit faster. if you're really such a hotshot that you need that extra speed for your business then you'll be able to afford to buy another one.

Do unto others....

 

[nihilisticmonk]

how would you feel if you spent $2500 today and tomorrow you could have gotten a better system for the same price?

not everybody can throw their money around. perhaps people care about getting the most for their money.

If you can't throw your money around, you shouldn't be into tech....and you certainly shouldn't buy a mac pro

Worrying about upgrades is a mugs game, you pay your Money, you make your choice...

Like he said, it's still a fast Computer, and if you kept it 12 months and then upgraded, you could still sell it for a few $100 less and buy the new model...