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final cut pro x = prosumer

H

halfmonkey

macrumors regular
Original poster
May 17, 2011
139
3
So I've been reading a lot of negative feedback on the fcp x and it seems that a lot of the feedback are directed at Apple for supposedly abandoning the pro level and moving down market to the prosumer level with fcp x. Does anybody agree with this?

I'd classify myself as a beginner on the way to prosumer so if the above is correct, then this newest software would be the item to get and sounds like it'd suit me just fine. I'm a little hesitant to make the move only because of all the negative feedback out there and it'd be a quite an expensive mistake to make to purchase it only to find out that it doesn't fit my needs.

One of my biggest thing is trying to figure out if fcp x will natively work with avchd. I now that iMovie works with avchd but technically, iMovie "works" with it by converting it to a format that iMovie can manage so it's not native. From everything that I've read, it seems that fcp x will work with avchd natively and the other nice thing that I like about it is that it will play nice with iMovie and it can also output to Blu-ray. That is def one thing I don't like about iMovie cosnidering that I'm recording the video on a hd camcorder but after editing, it can only produce a dvd quality image from iDVD.

This is my understanding of the workflow so if I'm wrong, please educate me because I'm very interested in getting fcp x but again, don't want to make a $400 mistake (when you include the add-ons).

Also, if anybody has any comments as it relates to the Canon HF M41, I'd appreciate your feedback on that camcorder with either iMovie, fcp X, or adobe premiere pro.
 
Another one of these? Jeez. Buy it, use it...fine. Those who like it fine, those who don't are migrating to something else. Apple DID abandon the "pro level". If you would read any number of the DOZENS of threads in this forum that say the same thing you would know.
 
Well most pro systems I have used have cost more than $20,000 up to $500,000, so I always considered FCP prosumer but very useful. The amount of power for an individual, not multiuser environment, is insane in the new FCPX.

Go price a flame or inferno system and come back ;)

I was using a $20,000 media100 (google it) when FCP came out in 1999 for $999 which did most of what we needed.

Let's go back to the avid monopoly :(
 
Beating-a-dead-horse.gif
 
Apple's current update to Final Cut Pro is absolutely a Prosumer incarnation. If you are a small independent studio, an amateur, someone stepping up from iMovie, it'll work fine for you.

Apples FCP X Specs page and FCP X FAQ covers some of the basics.
http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/specs/
http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/faq/

Specifically, the following...
"Native editing support for AVCHD, including Panasonic AVCCAM and Sony NXCAM. (Native editing includes support for import and playback without transcoding.)" and "Export and burn DVD, AVCHD disc, and Blu-ray disc."

In fact there is a lot to like, and some features, not to mention the speed of the app are as slick as a greased weasel on a water slide.

BUT... if you are an Professional Editor and have to work within the established infrastructure of Commercial posts, and have ongoing projects and clients, and have to work with allied pros and other technical specialists, such as Audio Engineers, FCP X is absolutely NOT ready for prime time. And it remains to be seen whether or not Apple - and third party developers - will get it there.

But as has been discussed in great detail, and some passion in many other places, this market is not at the top of Apple's priorities. The fact that FCP X imports iMovie and NOT FCP projects is some indication where they're focus is. So, depending where you place yourself on the Professional-Consumer spectrum careful investigation of the other NLE systems out there might be worth your time.

One note is that a lot of pros already have some version of an Adobe Creative Suite already on their machines to have PhotoShop, Illustrator, etc... So many of them ALREADY OWN Premiere Pro and After Effects.

Good luck out there.
 
halfmonkey said:
One of my biggest thing is trying to figure out if fcp x will natively work with avchd. I now that iMovie works with avchd but technically, iMovie "works" with it by converting it to a format that iMovie can manage so it's not native.
Click to expand...

Yes FCPX does work with AVCHD files natively if you want it do BUT out of interest why would you want to work with the files natively? You would need a beast of a computer to work with the native files as fast as with the ProRes 422 files...
 
Oh gosh! A FCPX thread? When was this released?...

Please, there should be a FIRM rule about superfluous and sameish FCPX threads, as it's like wading through a sea of horse sh_t, these past few weeks...

:rolleyes:
 
SamuraiArtGuy said:
Apple's current update to Final Cut Pro is absolutely a Prosumer incarnation. If you are a small independent studio, an amateur, someone stepping up from iMovie, it'll work fine for you.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't even say it's the best solution for a small, independent studio because there is little room for growth and flexibility w/in FCP X. The malleability of FCP is one thing that made it great for indies. As your projects grew FCP could grow with you. That's not the case anymore, IMO.


Lethal
 
acearchie said:
Yes FCPX does work with AVCHD files natively if you want it do BUT out of interest why would you want to work with the files natively? You would need a beast of a computer to work with the native files as fast as with the ProRes 422 files...
Click to expand...

because transcoding to pro res has these drawbacks

1. It takes time. A lot of time for a feature film.
2. A lot of space. Up to 10X as much as the original footage. That's a lot of RAID harddrives. Or use proxy files blah blah
3. Crushes the blacks.

Better to work native in avid or premiere with one of their draft modes. Or use FCP X if you don't need the missing features of FCS 3
 
Sirmausalot said:
because transcoding to pro res has these drawbacks

1. It takes time. A lot of time for a feature film.
2. A lot of space. Up to 10X as much as the original footage. That's a lot of RAID harddrives. Or use proxy files blah blah
3. Crushes the blacks.

Better to work native in avid or premiere with one of their draft modes. Or use FCP X if you don't need the missing features of FCS 3
Click to expand...
It could ultimately save time as working natively w/highly CPU intensive codecs on longer and/or complex projects can really start to bog down the machine from what I've heard. Transcoding can be done in chunks overnight when no one is on the machine.

HDDs are cheap. 2TB drives can be had for $100 or less and 1hr of ProRes 422 1080p24 will run about 50gigs.

A proper transcode shouldn't damage the footage like that.


Just another opinion.

Lethal
 
Sirmausalot said:
because transcoding to pro res has these drawbacks

1. It takes time. A lot of time for a feature film.
2. A lot of space. Up to 10X as much as the original footage. That's a lot of RAID harddrives. Or use proxy files blah blah
3. Crushes the blacks.

Better to work native in avid or premiere with one of their draft modes. Or use FCP X if you don't need the missing features of FCS 3
Click to expand...

Lethal sort of covered what I was going to say but I wanted to add that there is always the option of ProRes 4444 which is very close to uncompressed.

Also what camera are you shooting a feature on using AVCHD? The highest bitrate AVCHD camera I have seen is the Af101 at 21mpbs.
 
Yes it's "Prosumer"... To bad the people complaining really show their limitation of creativity, about saying FCPX doesn't work or "lacks".... Like movie cutter said, THEN MOVE ON, GOODBYE.
 
First of all you tell us you are a a freshman as far as editing is concerned. So why then would it make any difference to you if FCP X is prosumer or above?

Seems to be you should be more concerned with learning to use video editing software - hands on - and then after a couple of years of working then you can decide if FCP X or, Avid, or one of the others suits your fancy. AVCHD is not a particularly professional format anyway. That's not to say a fully broadcast production can't be made on it - it can. But sounds like you are putting the cart before the horse.

Learn your craft, use iMove, use it up. Or FC Express. Just use it and learn it. Don't worry about what other people think of FCP X. Online reviews are not particularly reliable anyway.
 
I don't see any value in these classifications.

Just saw a video about a REI shoot by commercial photographer Chase Jarvis. He shot the campaign on a Nikon D7000 DSLR, also dubbed "prosumer".

Chase Jarvis clearly called it pro grade equipment. It worked well at ice cold high altitude with gusts at 100mph.

So, drop that pointless "prosumer" thing. It's about you and what you do with equipment.

Final Cut X just came out. Many hate the interruption of their workflows, because several professional features are missing. But the core is good, and I expect the software to soar within a year.

For you this doesn't have to concern you. Maybe go to an Apple store and have a look. Let them show you. Then see if you like it. But don't have your mind clogged with pointless labels like "prosumer".
 
Just the answer

Yes FCX works just as well as iMovie when it comes to AVCHD. IMO I would wait on motion and compressor only because you claim to be just starting. So for right now it's a 300.00 investment. If I were you I would download Adove Premiere free 30 day trial just to test it out, see if you like that program. I think going to FCX from iMovie may be easier on you though since adobes interface looks a bit more like FC7 then FCX.
I use AVCHD a lot and FCX has helped me big time, and I'm not a fan of iMovie.
Motion and compresser are great, especially motion at 50.00. Premire works well with AVCHD also, why you should give it a try before the "switch" gies away. I like FCX, though the switch program is to good to pass up, especially with all it comes with, I really need after effects...that's another topic.

Good luck! Once you get the editing bug you nay never stop.....like me.
 
Nostromo said:
So, drop that pointless "prosumer" thing. It's about you and what you do with equipment.
Click to expand...
Classifying equipment is a simple way to get a ballpark idea on the price and feature set of the gear. It shouldn't be used as a hard and fast rule though because there is a lot of gray area. There is also a difference between professional grade tools and tools used by professionals. "28 Days Later" was shot primarily w/aCanon XL-1 but I wouldn't put that camera on the same level as a Arri film camera.


For you this doesn't have to concern you. Maybe go to an Apple store and have a look. Let them show you. Then see if you like it. But don't have your mind clogged with pointless labels like "prosumer".
Click to expand...
Last I heard FCP X isn't loaded onto machines at the Apple stores. Maybe they are waiting for Lion?


Lethal
 
spacepower7 said:
Well most pro systems I have used have cost more than $20,000 up to $500,000, so I always considered FCP prosumer but very useful. The amount of power for an individual, not multiuser environment, is insane in the new FCPX.

Go price a flame or inferno system and come back ;)

I was using a $20,000 media100 (google it) when FCP came out in 1999 for $999 which did most of what we needed.

Let's go back to the avid monopoly :(
Click to expand...

I miss the old Media 100 days.
 
To the OP...

I'm one of the biggest critics of FCPX...and yet I would say for you, it would very likely be awesome. For me, at home...again I bet I would love it. I just can't use it at work.

The whole "Apple abandoned the pros" thang is about *workflows*. If you don't see yourself working with broadcast TV or large budget film projects, you'll probably be very happy with FCPX.

If your goal is to eventually work in broadcast TV or film...then getting into Avid Media Composer would be a much wiser move.
 
iMovie has a market, and so does professional software. I don't see any need for a $300 in-between version.... in fact I no longer believe there's any such thing as a prosumer.

The closest thing is wealthy people who way overspend. Apple has long been successful with those customers.
 
LethalWolfe said:
Classifying equipment is a simple way to get a ballpark idea on the price and feature set of the gear. It shouldn't be used as a hard and fast rule though because there is a lot of gray area. There is also a difference between professional grade tools and tools used by professionals. "28 Days Later" was shot primarily w/aCanon XL-1 but I wouldn't put that camera on the same level as a Arri film camera.
Click to expand...

Agree.

I'm just not a fan of the buzz word "prosumer". It changes the meaning depending on the person who uses it.

Some mean "possible to do professional work with it, but not fully up to demanding work" (in still photography this could mean the lack of seals on lenses and cameras and a general sturdiness for intense use, but also certain features.

Others use it in the way you can call the "gearhead way", defining themselves over the gear they own.

So, in this case, just noting the gear one is using for a certain job would be best without using the rubber category "prosumer".


LethalWolfe said:
Last I heard FCP X isn't loaded onto machines at the Apple stores. Maybe they are waiting for Lion?


Lethal
Click to expand...

I noticed that, too.

Maybe certain features get unlocked in lion?

Or Apple wants to push a first upgrade at the time of the Lion release.
 
Nostromo said:
Maybe certain features get unlocked in lion?
Click to expand...
Yes. I can't remember according to whom, but there's some stuff in FCP X that can only fully function under Lion.

I have only limited experience with FCP X, but I like it so far a lot. Can't miss FCP6 yet for a lot of reasons, but I'm not in a hurry to really "upgrade".
 
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