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transmaster

Contributor
Original poster
Feb 1, 2010
1,996
1,125
Cheyenne, Wyoming
I purchased the new Apple TV 4K to replace the 3rd generation AT I had. As soon as I set it up my sound got weird on the Yamaha. The music the sound effects, and all of the kabooms came through fine but no dialog it was lip reading time. Could not figure it out. Shortly after the Apple TV I purchased a Mac Studio, and a pair of the new HomePod 2's. So the Apple TV took a back burner because I could mostly access the stuff I watched on the Mac and the sound there was OK through the Yamaha. I was going through the setting on the Apple TV today and I noticed the Dolby Atmos, audio settings, they were in the default auto mode. These are settings my 3 gen Apple TV did not have. The lack of Atmos on my previous Apple TV was not an issue because the Yamaha AVR has it. My Surround speakers are in need of new speaker cables so was using it in 2.1 mode. This system was originally setup to play Dolby surround music, sadly surround music did not pan out. However with Apple's Atmos music thing are looking up because the Yamaha can decode it. I dug into the settings and there was a Stereo mode I could set, so I did. That fixed it I can live without surround movies for now. Their is one thing I have learned, banana speaker cable terminations totally bogus. I even have the ones that tight up in speaker connectors. With the new wiring it is going to be bare twisted of wire going directly into the Yamaha's barrel connectors.
 
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Glad you have resolution. While you have only 2 speakers in play, using it in stereo mode seems fitting.

Some of your description makes me wonder if the system was sending the missing dialog perhaps down a center speaker cable to nowhere (in a 2.1 setup)? Is that cable perhaps in place but not hooked to a speaker? Because in a 3.1 or higher setup, dialog generally is split out to the center speaker. If you have the cable in place but no speaker (or you have up to both of those but it is not wired properly), that might explain why you were not hearing dialog: AVR "thinks" you have 3.1 with a center for dialog and is sending it to nowhere?

Music/effects works/worked because it is generally stereo (and kabooms are generally sent to the .1 sub). So even if you have 7.1 or 9.1 or 11.2 speakers setup, music/effects/kaboom would work fine. With rare exception, music can work with as little as only 1 speaker, but is generally "full" with 2 speakers or any amount greater than 2.

It's a little difficult to fully interpret your description but my gut guess is that your AVR DOES think there is a center channel speaker and that's where the missing dialog in movies/shows was going. If wired, it may sense it even without a speaker (in other words, the AVR "believes" there is a center for that dialog)? If banana plugs are in the center speaker terminals but no wire, perhaps just having something inserted is "fooling" it (to believe there is a center speaker for dialog). Maybe you have an AVR menu setting(s) that basically tells it there IS a center speaker even if there is not one? etc.

My next guess is that it may be mis-wired. What you may be describing as "bogus" in those last lines may- in fact- be because of improper wiring. In general, banana plugs work great IF the wiring is right. I suggest thoroughly rechecking all wiring at both ends (be sure red connects to red and black to black (that so easy to mix up), be sure the banana plug raw wire is properly setup/connecting- for instance, test your center speaker wire with a speaker you KNOW is working, etc).

My next guess is wilder: do you perhaps have a RCA cable plugged into a center channel jack that may override the amplifier connections? Some receivers will let you bypass the internal amplifiers to send sound out to a dedicated unit. If you might have a cable plugged into a center channel RCA jack, the AVR may assume center channel "dialog" should be sent out through that cable to a separate amplifier to which such a cable would sometimes be attached. You might want to check that too. Sometimes people will just tuck in a loose cable to an empty jack when moving an AVR and not really think about the jack they are using as only a cable holder. Unplug such a cable and the system no longer thinks there is a center channel speaker/amplifier.

Lastly, have you ever had THAT AVR hooked up to 3.1 or more speaker setup, so you know for sure that the center channel works? Again, if the system is "fooled" into thinking there IS a center channel speaker, it would likely send movie/show dialog to that speaker (even if it does not exist). That seems fairly plausible to explain the experience you were having.

If you have one more speaker laying around, perhaps hook it to center, reset the change you made and see if you can get dialog out of a 3.1 (temporary) setup. If so, you'll know you simply need to get the rest of the speakers to have full surround sound with your AVR... or at least ONE more speaker for a minimal 3.1 setup.

If that test helps you discover that, the other option would be to change a setting in the AVR to play everything as stereo while your system is limited to only 2.1 speakers. That will ignore the actual/faux center channel/cable/plugs/error and center channel audio will be split between left & right (so you'll hear it with only 2.1). Often this is something you set in a variety of menu options so that the various inputs are playing audio in stereo vs. surround.

Again, hard to interpret your description in full but if you are confident the AVR is fully functional, I suspect that problem is solved when you add a true center channel speaker and re-check your cabling whether hard wired or using banana plugs.

Your workaround is "as good" for now but since you already have the AVR, you are on your way to a richer surround sound audio system that will play much better than basically leaning only on stereo for the long run. It's worth building out the system, especially since you already have your central hub in place.

I hope this is helpful.
 
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I did a speaker check, the Yamaha sends a signal to each speaker to set audio level either automatically with its plug in microphone or manually by ear. I discovered that my rear speakers were not working. and I had the center speaker disconnected. I mentioned the bad banana plugs. With the 3rd generation Apple TV it did not have any surround settings it just sent the signals off the my Yamaha which handled the surround part. What the Yamaha did was distributed the sound to the speakers in a simulated surround or you can set it for the speaker setup manually. I had it set to 2.1 but the Apple TV 4K was sending down a surround signal automatically. Probably much of this is the age of the Yamaha it is now 6 years old and it does not have the latest and greatest versions of Dolby, Airplay, Bluetooth etc. I am looking at Crutchfield my long time go to for this type of electronics and the latest Yamaha version of my AVR looks very good.
 
If those rears never work, even when bypassing the "bad" banana plugs, I think your Yamaha has problems. I presume you've tried simple things like unplugging it, waiting upwards of a few minutes, plugging it back in and testing again.

If the rears cannot ever work, the Yamaha may have failed them and center, which again MIGHT explain the "no dialog" issue.

If the Yamaha has any kins of "reset to factory settings" option, you might try that as one last-ditch effort to see if you or someone else may have tweaked some setting(s) that is making it not work with what you have now in speakers.

Replacing the receiver with a new one should be a big upgrade and- assuming all wiring is good- get all of your speakers working in a good surround setup again.
 
If those rears never work, even when bypassing the "bad" banana plugs, I think your Yamaha has problems. I presume you've tried simple things like unplugging it, waiting upwards of a few minutes, plugging it back in and testing again.

If the rears cannot ever work, the Yamaha may have failed them and center, which again MIGHT explain the "no dialog" issue.

If the Yamaha has any kins of "reset to factory settings" option, you might try that as one last-ditch effort to see if you or someone else may have tweaked some setting(s) that is making it not work with what you have now in speakers.

Replacing the receiver with a new one should be a big upgrade and- assuming all wiring is good- get all of your speakers working in a good surround setup again.
I have a set of Polk Audio speakers with a Klipsch subwoofer. The rear speakers are OK it is a wiring issue. and I disconnected the center channel speaker because when I was doing movies the kabooms would put the Yamaha into safe mode. I realized about that time that these AVR's have no where near the power to do full theatrical surround sound. For that you need to get one the has pre-outs and put dedicated audio power amps on the surround speakers. Leaving the AVR to just power the front Right/left and center speakers.
 
I'm pretty confident there should be settings to let you manage the power flow to the speakers so you can maximize any speakers without triggering safe mode. It sounds like settings need attention. If you are sure you have settings correct, I'd take a fresh look at the sub, as it should be self powered and thus not having any big draw on the receiver when there are big kabooms (it should power its own kabooms).

I've been using AVRs for a few decades for full surround sound with no such issues. But- assuming proper wiring- settings are key to avoid overload, which reads like it may be the culprit for the original problem.

Of course, you can use pre-out options and dedicated amps too but AVRs built for 5.1 or 7.1 will power 5 or 7 speakers + sub just fine if the settings & wiring are correct. They are built for that kind of setup, not to set aside their own amps to only power stereo left & right and leave the rest to other amplifiers.

I suspect if you take a fresh look at everything- wiring & settings- you will find that something is not set properly and that is driving Kaboom "safe mode" UNLESS the Yamaha is simply defective, which certainly could be the case.
 
I'm pretty confident there should be settings to let you manage the power flow to the speakers so you can maximize any speakers without triggering safe mode. It sounds like settings need attention. If you are sure you have settings correct, I'd take a fresh look at the sub, as it should be self powered and thus not having any big draw on the receiver when there are big kabooms (it should power its own kabooms).

I've been using AVRs for a few decades for full surround sound with no such issues. But- assuming proper wiring- settings are key to avoid overload, which reads like it may be the culprit for the original problem.

Of course, you can use pre-out options and dedicated amps too but AVRs built for 5.1 or 7.1 will power 5 or 7 speakers + sub just fine if the settings & wiring are correct. They are built for that kind of setup, not to set aside their own amps to only power stereo left & right and leave the rest to other amplifiers.

I suspect if you take a fresh look at everything- wiring & settings- you will find that something is not set properly and that is driving Kaboom "safe mode" UNLESS the Yamaha is simply defective, which certainly could be the case.
I too have been using AVR's since the early 1990's. Yes there are settings to flatten out the fast transients. But my system is configured for surround Dolby music not home theater. The Yamaha has a dynamic equalization system that handles much of this. So the few times I tried doing a Marvel Studio Blasto movie is was really interesting. I have little interest in movies such as they are today but Apple's Atmos Music is a new thing for those of us that enjoy true surround music.
 
OK, I understand. I too use my own setup for music too but it appears I have a much greater application on the home theater (video soundtrack) side (ATMOS or just old Dolby Digital). I think the kaboom reference made me assume movie explosions vs. music kabooms.

When I make my own setup kaboom, I can shake my cement block walls and hurricane windows, but I haven't overloaded my system before to trigger "safe mode" scenarios. When I saw that, I assumed wiring issue or AVR settings.

Good luck with the new equipment. I hope you can enjoy it as you want it without overloading the new AVR.
 
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