First Real Webdesign Job! Need Fee Advice!

[dabirdwell]

Quickly-I will be putting together three separate websites for state ballot initiatives and need to present my fees to the guy in charge of the PR firm I'll be working with so he can include it in his budget. The sites require no Flash or applications or anything terribly difficult. It's three sites of a few pages each, I'll arrange the hosting with a provider and maintain the sites for three months until the elections. Shouldn't be very frequent updates.

What do you think appropriate basic design fees should be. I am not sure if I should think of it as an average hourly thing or think of the project as a whole. Thanks

 

[dabirdwell]

Actually,

I'd like to know what you think a per-site fee should be + maintenance. I should break it down in the budget.

 

[SilentPanda]

Definitely go hourly if you can. Otherwise they'll abuse all your time...

There are other threads in the forums which discuss web development rates... I don't do web design professionally so I can't tell you. But you might look up those while you wait for an answer.

 

[wordmunger]

Hourly. You definitely want to do it hourly. Give him an estimated number of hours, charge $30-50 or so an hour (this is your first site, right?), and tell him you'll let him know if th project looks to be exceeding the number of hours. That way they won't screw you with a gazillion "revisions" to the site. Make sure you bill for meetings/phone calls!

 

[makisushi]

When I price a job, I always estimate how much time it would take. Then multiply it by how much an hour I want to make. On a job like this, I would pitch $4500 in design and $40 an hour for updates. I would call a prominent design shop in your area, and ask them how much they would charge, so you can get a feeling of what the market is like in your area.

 

[dotnina]

Sweet heavens, if you can get $30-$50 / hr for your first web design job where you're not doing "anything terribly difficult," way to go!

As for me, I got $7 / hour for my first web design job. In retrospect, I should have asked for a lot more.

I think something like $15-$20 an hour might be reasonable for both of you ... though if he offers more, I wouldn't argue.

 

[dabirdwell]

I'm not sure that there are any

prominent design shops in Oklahoma. The PR firm I'm working with doesn't even have their own website.

 

[wordmunger]

If you're working with a PR firm, they're used to hiring freelancers for $30-plus an hour. Anything less would ruin your credibility. IMHO.

 

[wordmunger]

I'm not sure there are any prominent design shops in Oklahoma.

A quick Google search reveals this not to be the case.

However, if the PR firm is a rinky-dink operation, they might blink at paying $30 an hour. If it's a serious business, this is chicken feed.

 

[Les Kern]

For "simple" sites (those that you can design in a few hours, like MINE (watch my slow server churn!) I charge a flat rate of $1,200.00. I make the effort to make it good, and usually spend 20 hours on it, but could do it half-way decent in 6 or 7. I also charge $30.00 per INCIDENT for page updates, whether it needs a new paragraph or new pics.
This is what I charge, and I think it's fair to me for my time. $4,500.00 sounds like too much because MS Frontpage is cheap, and I'd rather not have the customer even consider buying and learning. For $4,500 I'd buy it! Of course it also depends on where you live. Downtown Chicago is NOT Peoria.

 

[Les Kern]

If you're working with a PR firm, they're used to hiring freelancers for $30-plus an hour. Anything less would ruin your credibility. IMHO.

Very true, and also one other point: When I was learning I used to do FULL sites for <100 dollars. I had a few calls (and some friends) saying I should NOT whore myself, and cut into the going rate. I changed policies and had zero drop in business!

 

[makisushi]

This is what I charge, and I think it's fair to me for my time. $4,500.00 sounds like too much because MS Frontpage is cheap, and I'd rather not have the customer even consider buying and learning. For $4,500 I'd buy it! Of course it also depends on where you live. Downtown Chicago is NOT Peoria.

First off, I hope no one is using frontpage. Second the $4500 is for three websites. The original poster stated he is doing three separate websites. So, in conclusion, our prices are similar...lol

 

[makisushi]

Definitely go hourly if you can. Otherwise they'll abuse all your time...

Hourly is fine, but it never works with clients who are trying to create a solid budget. If you present hourly, you must also present a good estimate of hours, which essentially the same a pitching a flat fee. Edits and updates are a separate thing.

 

[dabirdwell]

Hourly is fine, but it never works with clients who are trying to create a solid budget. If you present hourly, you must also present a good estimate of hours, which essentially the same a pitching a flat fee. Edits and updates are a separate thing.

I had thought about that. Not sure what to do now. The PR firm is a legit place, they just stick to print. The actual client is a nonprofit, so I want to make sure I am fair to both them and me.

 

[jeremy.king]

I would suggest fixed bid with an hourly clause for every task that is not in the statement of work (SOW). Whats a statement of work, you ask? Basically, a document that details the work requirements for your project and lists deliverables and/or services to be performed.

If they ask you to "go above and beyond," that is when the hourly rate kicks in.

Very common in consulting to do business this way. The SOW can also be considered part of the contract with the client should you need to settle a dispute.

Going straight up hourly could turn ugly quickly.

Good luck.

 

[makisushi]

I had thought about that. Not sure what to do now. The PR firm is a legit place, they just stick to print. The actual client is a nonprofit, so I want to make sure I am fair to both them and me.

I would ask the PR firm guy how much we was estimating for his budget. His number might suprise you. Let him know that design skills will greatly benefit them, and that you bid in such a way that it will work for them. If he only budgets 500 for the job including updates, don't bid 500 (it is not worth it).

I am having a hard time expressing myself this afternoon...
shoot me an email if you want anymore of my advice.
makisushi at gmail dot com.

 

[dabirdwell]

I know they are running print ads that are more than $5000 each as a part of the same campaign, I just am not sure how many they are running.

 

[Les Kern]

First off, I hope no one is using frontpage. Second the $4500 is for three websites. The original poster stated he is doing three separate websites. So, in conclusion, our prices are similar...lol

You are correct and I was wrong. And the "frontpage" reference was because it's about the cheapest thing around. Folks that have no experience are "wowwed" by it. It's garbage, but it's ubiquitous. Very sad!
I use GoLive CS and Dreamweaver MX. (MX makes WAY cleaner code for one thing I need it for. Otherwise I like GoLive)

 

[James L]

I charge $40 per hour for Photoshop, Flash animation, and video editing, then a flat rate of $100 per page on the actual website. Finally, I charge $30 per hour for updates to the page. I do give all of my clients a 30 day period afteer the site goes live where I will make minor changes for free. This gives them time to look it over. By minor changes I am referring to editing some text or swapping an image.

I would say my overall bill for a 5 page website, designed from the ground up with all pre-planning, story boarding, photoshop work, coding, mounting, etc would be about $700.

And the posters above are right in the sense that you might as well go with a flat rate if the client needs a number, as quoting hourly for a certain number of hours works out to the same thing!

 

[mnkeybsness]

wow i'm getting shafted!

i work part-time (30 hrs/week) as an assistant web designer for the marketing division in a part of my school. this entails updating old pages, complete redesigns, adding new content, and making completely new pages, styles, etc and i'm making $9.50 an hour.

 

[wordmunger]

wow i'm getting shafted!

i work part-time (30 hrs/week) as an assistant web designer for the marketing division in a part of my school. this entails updating old pages, complete redesigns, adding new content, and making completely new pages, styles, etc and i'm making $9.50 an hour.

No, you're not getting shafted. You have a regular job and that's a different thing entirely. Freelancers can't count on filling 30 (or 40, or whatever) hours a week so they get paid more per hour. Even if your school has nothing for you to do, they still have to pay you, but if there's no work for a freelancer, he goes hungry (or at least cuts back on the double lattes).

 

[makisushi]

wow i'm getting shafted!

i work part-time (30 hrs/week) as an assistant web designer for the marketing division in a part of my school. this entails updating old pages, complete redesigns, adding new content, and making completely new pages, styles, etc and i'm making $9.50 an hour.

As a freelancer, you have to pay your own taxes as well. If you get a salary or wage, your company pays half of the taxes for you. If you really think you are getting shafted, start pounding the pavement and look for clients.

 

[mnkeybsness]

that makes a lot of sense. thanks. i actually have a really nice job, usually with important things to do... and when i have nothing to do, i'm asked to learn how to do things that i don't know.

 

[wormed]

I will usually quote on about a months worth of work. This includes meetings updates etc. If I have to go over in my hours that's my tough.

My standard wage per hour is $25.00 CDN but I will go as low as $18.00 if I have to. If I was doing three small sites; maybe 20 pages in total i'd charge about $3500.

Make sure you get at least half of the payment before you put up anything live after that charge the client 2% interest per month if they go late. Working with smaller companies is like pulling teeth to try and get them to pay on time. Adding any extras just for good work relations doesn't usually work out either. If you do anything extra the client will think that was part of the initial quote and become demanding.