For those display OCDs...

[jackyyeow]

Here's a thread I came across just now:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/app...-macbook-air-inconsistent-screen-quality.html


At the same time, I just had a quick side by side comparison on my LG versus my friend's Samsung. I noticed right away how evenly lite is the backlight on the LG display, the Samsung has noticeable gradients on the bottom.

Also, the colors on the Samsung is more pumped compared to LG, but when put them side by side, especially when watching a video, the colors on the LG is much more natural while the Samsung looks dull. I believe calibration will help to certain extent though.

As for the viewing angle, they're actually surprisingly close. I'd say both are equally good, at least no noticeable difference during normal use.

At highest brightness setting, it seems that LG is slightly brighter.

I did the pixel crosstalk/walking test, interestingly Samsung pass all tests while the LG flicker on one of the test, in fact, pretty badly on highest brightness setting and when viewing the picture setting in large area. This is probably the only "defect" on my LG display, and some of the website exhibit this problem but due to the fact that nobody actually use those kind of picture in large scale (usually just as background, often much less than 50% of the screen), so there isn't much chance to distract you from viewing those websites.

My opinion? Both are equally good (or bad). At the same time I also believe there're good LG and bad Samsung, and vice versa. If your display shows problems, exchange or replace the display. Otherwise you may end up with worse display even if the terminal pop up the magic display model number.

So when you test your brand new MBA's display, all you need to do is to make sure you check the fundamentals just as you would on any other displays - even backlight, 100% healthy pixels. No more, no less.

 

[jackyyeow]

I'd also add some interesting findings about the flickering "issue".

First of all there's "pixel walking" effect and "flickering" effect. Both are not the same phenomenon. Lagom website did not explain the phenomenon properly and leaving most people thinking they have a poor display unit.

This is a quote from the website http://www.techmind.org/lcd/index.html regarding the "flickering" effect:

The following test patterns deliberately excite only one polarity-half of the inversion pattern for some common schemes, and one of them should cause your screen to flicker. This is not a fault with the screen, but enables you to find out which inversion scheme your screen uses.

So now that clear things up, and I recall I saw the pixel walking effect on the Samsung display on some similar grey backgrounds with those pixel patterns (not on the lagom or LCD test website) - it looks like those noise on a video that's recorded with poor camera. So the Samsung did not display flickering, but indeed have this "pixel walking" effect displayed. It's not significant, one has to look closely to see this effect.

Yes, the pixel walking is not as bad as the flickering, so you think flickering is still a much worse one? As the above quote stated, flickering is just a way to find out which inversion scheme your LCD used. More over, there's another quote from the "pixel walking" (crosstalk) section:

A fortunate side-effect of inversion (see above) is that, for most display material, what little cross-talk there is is largely cancelled out. For most practical purposes, the level of crosstalk in modern LCDs is negligible.

It probably means pixel walking effect or flickering effect.

Another reason to stop thinking about which panel you're getting. There seems to have no perfect TN display panels, or rather, these "problems" are nonexistence.

 

[bill-p]

I think the fact that there is a difference already negates your entire effort.

Samsung and LG panels are just... different, and people prefer one or the other, you know.

 

[TheRealDamager]

False. They are different in largely imperceptible ways. Knowing that there are 2 kinds just sets off people's Apple OCD.

 

[jackyyeow]

I think the fact that there is a difference already negates your entire effort.

Samsung and LG panels are just... different, and people prefer one or the other, you know.

Yes, they ARE different. I did not state that they are the same panels, no.

Whether it makes a difference to get another one just because people say it's better? No.

But then, you're right on different people having different preferences. Some might like one over another one, WHEN comparing side by side.

Still, when you compare 2 panels from the same manufacturer, chances that you'll find both having slightly different quality. No 2 panels the same. It's either you get a bad display, or good display, regardless of brand.

 

[NutsNGum]

False. They are different in largely imperceptible ways. Knowing that there are 2 kinds just sets off people's Apple OCD.

That's False. Having owned several 2011 MacBook Air 13s with 2 LGs and 1 Samsung screen, I can categorically state that the difference in quality is absolutely there for the eyes to see.

 

[IngerMan]

That's False. Having owned several 2011 MacBook Air 13s with 2 LGs and 1 Samsung screen, I can categorically state that the difference in quality is absolutely there for the eyes to see.

I concur, I think the LG screen on my 11" is noticeable better then the Samsung on my past 13"

 

[TheRealDamager]

That's False. Having owned several 2011 MacBook Air 13s with 2 LGs and 1 Samsung screen, I can categorically state that the difference in quality is absolutely there for the eyes to see.

Sorry - lots of people (me included) have used both, and there is not a difference in quality. In fact, Anandtech also tested both and said in many ways (like color accuracy) the LG was superior. I understand thats not your opinion of your experience, but many disagree. I'd bet cash money I could line up 5 Airs with a mix of both screens and you would never be able to tell the difference based on the look.

 

[erasr]

My new 13" Air still slightly hurting in between my eyes and forehead (being very specific there!). I'm 6 days in to the 14. Giving it until the weekend to see if I can adapt.

If I take it back I'm not sure what to do. Either swap for another or try another in store, or get a MBP.

I don't think there's going to be that much difference between LG and Samsung. I just think the LG is brighter with apparently less viewing angles.

 

[BENJMNS]

Honestly and genuinely: if you guys are this caught up on a computer, you seriously need to readjust your life priorities.

nothing is perfect.

 

[NutsNGum]

Sorry - lots of people (me included) have used both, and there is not a difference in quality. In fact, Anandtech also tested both and said in many ways (like color accuracy) the LG was superior. I understand thats not your opinion of your experience, but many disagree. I'd bet cash money I could line up 5 Airs with a mix of both screens and you would never be able to tell the difference based on the look.

Again, that's your opinion. Which, equally, a lot of people disagree with.

I bought two on launch day, both had a very strong grid-like overlay over the whole screen, which looked terrible. And after a few minutes of use my eyes would be watering and hurt like hell. I had not felt that sensation with the 11" or this current 13" with the Samsung panel, which leads me to believe it was an issue with the 13" LG screen.

Perhaps not everyone is affected by it, but I've seen several other people complain of similar ailments. Same goes for LED backlit displays, doesn't bother everyone, but some people can't deal with them.

Also, with regards to Anandtech, he had both Samsung panels in his review models. If you could point me to the LG section of the review I'd appreciate it.

 

[Built]

Again, that's your opinion. Which, equally, a lot of people disagree with.

I bought two on launch day, both had a very strong grid-like overlay over the whole screen, which looked terrible. And after a few minutes of use my eyes would be watering and hurt like hell. I had not felt that sensation with the 11" or this current 13" with the Samsung panel, which leads me to believe it was an issue with the 13" LG screen.

Perhaps not everyone is affected by it, but I've seen several other people complain of similar ailments. Same goes for LED backlit displays, doesn't bother everyone, but some people can't deal with them.

Also, with regards to Anandtech, he had both Samsung panels in his review models. If you could point me to the LG section of the review I'd appreciate it.

I'd really have to question whether the OP is actually trying to convince US or HIMSELF that his LG is superior. Sounds to me like it's the latter.

 

[erasr]

Err, just look around on this forum and there's another thread with a link to a review which has comparisons of both screens.

I have the LG but don't get any of this eye watering thing. I simply don't rate the Air display overall. It's colours on both LG/Samsung are washed out, plain and simple.

The review I mentioned outlines only MINOR differences between the two models, with the LG actually doing better with contrast/whites/blacks. The Samsung just wins with slightly better viewing angles. But again, I have no issues with viewing angles on my LG, in fact they are better than my Samsung MBP 2010.

The LG vs Samsung thing is so funny. Imo, it all comes down to the slow decline in quality control from Apple.

 

[Buildbright]

You guys need girlfriends lol.

 

[erasr]

You guys need girlfriends lol.

It's called having standards Understanding quality and aspiring for the best.

That's what brings success! Boom.

 

[hidefguy]

It's called having standards Understanding quality and aspiring for the best.

That's what brings success! Boom.

Whatever you say to make yourself sleep better at night...J/K
I have the LG screen and all is good, as long as you don't have the Toshiba drive, but thats another topic.

 

[NutsNGum]

Whatever you say to make yourself sleep better at night...J/K
I have the LG screen and all is good, as long as you don't have the Toshiba drive, but thats another topic.

It's funny because it makes no sense.

If I had the samsung drive or the toshiba drive, I would never be able to tell the difference unless I looked at either system profiler or a benchmarking tool.

I'd be far less bothered about a drive that takes a few nanoseconds more to pull some data, than a screen that I can't look at directly for more than a few minutes.

Thread successfully derailed. Good night everyone.

 

[jackyyeow]

I'd really have to question whether the OP is actually trying to convince US or HIMSELF that his LG is superior. Sounds to me like it's the latter.

However you want to interpret my post.

My LG display flicker when viewing those website with specific pixel pattern, and it flicker pretty badly. Compared to Samsung, my LG display appeared more washed out. If I'm looking just at these specific things, LG display will appear inferior.

Compared side by side? Samsung has something I don't like too. So they're equal. Give me either one, I'd be happy to accept as long as the screen is evenly lit, and no dead/stuck pixels.

 

[TheRealDamager]

Again, that's your opinion. Which, equally, a lot of people disagree with.

I bought two on launch day, both had a very strong grid-like overlay over the whole screen, which looked terrible. And after a few minutes of use my eyes would be watering and hurt like hell. I had not felt that sensation with the 11" or this current 13" with the Samsung panel, which leads me to believe it was an issue with the 13" LG screen.

Perhaps not everyone is affected by it, but I've seen several other people complain of similar ailments. Same goes for LED backlit displays, doesn't bother everyone, but some people can't deal with them.

Also, with regards to Anandtech, he had both Samsung panels in his review models. If you could point me to the LG section of the review I'd appreciate it.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4554/apples-11inch-macbook-air-core-i7-18ghz-review-update

 

[NutsNGum]

From that review:

"Color accuracy is also slightly better on the LG panel, although this small of a difference is basically impossible to notice."

"Perhaps due to backlight differences the LG panel does have a narrower color gamut."

"The LG panel is slightly dimmer than the Samsung panel I originally tested."

"In normal usage I never noticed the increase in contrast, nor did I feel the panel was any dimmer, but there is technically an advantage here."

"Unfortunately I don't have them both here to show you a side by side comparison but the LG panel seems to be slightly more sensitive to vertical viewing angle."

Six and half a dozen by all accounts, and it still doesn't address aspects that Anand may have missed by not having been able to do a side-by-side comparison.

This addendum is by no means definitive, in either direction.

 

[TheRealDamager]

From that review:

"Color accuracy is also slightly better on the LG panel, although this small of a difference is basically impossible to notice."

"Perhaps due to backlight differences the LG panel does have a narrower color gamut."

"The LG panel is slightly dimmer than the Samsung panel I originally tested."

"In normal usage I never noticed the increase in contrast, nor did I feel the panel was any dimmer, but there is technically an advantage here."

"Unfortunately I don't have them both here to show you a side by side comparison but the LG panel seems to be slightly more sensitive to vertical viewing angle."

Six and half a dozen by all accounts, and it still doesn't address aspects that Anand may have missed by not having been able to do a side-by-side comparison.

This addendum is by no means definitive, in either direction.

Sure it is - definitive in that each panel has some strengths and some weaknesses. I'm glad your happy with your Samsung panel, but stop creating OCD hysteria on the boards by continuing this nonsense focus on panel manufacturer.

 

[deeddawg]

Six and half a dozen by all accounts, and it still doesn't address aspects that Anand may have missed by not having been able to do a side-by-side comparison.

Even a side-by-side comparison, if differences are very minor, would be potentially inconclusive if there's no way to control for panel to panel differences from the same manufacturer.

 

[NutsNGum]

Sure it is - definitive in that each panel has some strengths and some weaknesses. I'm glad your happy with your Samsung panel, but stop creating OCD hysteria on the boards by continuing this nonsense focus on panel manufacturer.

That's not what you implied with your "Anandtech says in many ways the LG was superior" comments earlier, is it though?

I was addressing your incorrect assertion that there is no difference between the screens.

So far as fermenting an atmosphere of OCD, I think that somewhat seems to come with the territory on this board, if that's how people react to me expressing an opinion, that's their problem, not mine.

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Even a side-by-side comparison, if differences are very minor, would be potentially inconclusive if there's no way to control for panel to panel differences from the same manufacturer.

Regardless, it would have been preferable to have had both side by side for the sake of the review, no?

 

[TheRealDamager]

Enough already - I'm done with this thread. Suffice it to say that both panels are better in some areas. Neither is definitively "better", unless you personally value some of the criterion more than others. Stick a fork in this topic - it's done.

 

[deeddawg]

Regardless, it would have been preferable to have had both side by side for the sake of the review, no?

Only if you have reasonable confidence that the sample variance is less than the side by side variance. Otherwise how do you determine whether the side-by-side differences are due to sample variance or real differences between the manufacturers?

My point is only to call out that side-by-side tests often implicitly assume the differences seen (if any) are solely due to the manufacturer. Unless you control for other potential causes, any conclusions are suspect. You'd want to do multiple side-by-sides to see if there was a consistent difference; with only a single unit from each manufacturer it's difficult to know anything concrete.