Ford chief sets roadblock for hybrid auto bill

[craigdawg]

I think Bill would be better served spending his dollars on engineers instead of lobbyists. Psst Bill, you know you make FCV-hybrid and hybrid-electric cars right?

Ford Motor Co. Chairman Bill Ford, who pitches himself as one of America's leading corporate environmentalists, has launched a campaign in the waning days of the legislative session to kill a plan that would reward Californians who buy the most fuel-efficient hybrid vehicles.

http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/environment/story/10491159p-11410496c.html

 

[pyrotoaster]

That's ironic, considering Ford makes the hybrid Escape.

 

[craigdawg]

That's ironic, considering Ford makes the hybrid Escape.

The Escape Hybrid "only" does 36/31 mpg and wouldn't qualify for the mileage portion of the bill (45 mpg). I think that's what he's ticked off about.

 

[wdlove]

Automakers have always fought every effort to innovate. They wonder why the foreign market is beating them in the showroom!

 

[bousozoku]

Automakers have always fought every effort to innovate. They wonder why the foreign market is beating them in the showroom!

That's for certain! I thought that Ford had learnt their lesson and yet, they go the other way when it suits them. GM innovates by importing other manufacturers' vehicles and re-badging them.

It would be good if all the crude oil in the world went away. Suddenly, someone would have to innovate--in a big way.

 

[maxterpiece]

That's for certain! I thought that Ford had learnt their lesson and yet, they go the other way when it suits them. GM innovates by importing other manufacturers' vehicles and re-badging them.

It would be good if all the crude oil in the world went away. Suddenly, someone would have to innovate--in a big way.

Not before one REALLY nasty world war

 

[bousozoku]

Not before one REALLY nasty world war

Well, that may be true, but I would hope for a real alternative before that. The U.S.A. is the land of innovation.

Thanks for editing the bad language before I saw it.

 

[Counterfit]

Automakers have always fought every effort to innovate.

Not on the racetrack

 

[evoluzione]

this is the problem with America, it's all about the money. no wonder the Japanese carmakers are winning, there's no competition. sure there's tons of people out there that will "only buy American" but they're just narrow minded and uninformed. plenty of parts are not american, and some cars are even made in other countries, whereas a lot of Japanese cars are made in America and are, in effect, more american than the cars they buy.


anyway, this quote just about sums it all up "What Bill Ford ought to be focusing on is how Ford can make the most fuel-efficient vehicles and how Ford can beat the Japanese," Angelides said.
it's about progressing, and rewarding those who are, not about crying because they're not willing to advance

 

[craigdawg]

this is the problem with America, it's all about the money. no wonder the Japanese carmakers are winning, there's no competition...

It's about the money to Toyota too. They earned a $10 BILLION profit last year. (GM and Ford combined to earn $4.3B). So you could argue that Toyota has money to blow on R&D for a hybrid-electric car program. Still, you would think that Ford has some cash to invest in this arena.

I think hybrids will be very attractive here in California if this bill passes. Not necessarily because we're a bunch of tree-huggers but because there's so much friggin' TRAFFIC. Being able to fly solo in the HOV lane would be a boon.

 

[neut]

Not before one REALLY nasty world war

makes me wonder if solar power would ever start a war? sun hogging?


peace.

 

[wdlove]

That's for certain! I thought that Ford had learnt their lesson and yet, they go the other way when it suits them. GM innovates by importing other manufacturers' vehicles and re-badging them.

It would be good if all the crude oil in the world went away. Suddenly, someone would have to innovate--in a big way.

If it did happen suddenly, there would be economic collapse. Our lives as we know it would change drastically. Oil is needed for a lot more than just gasoline. It is used in medicines, plastics, and heating homes. The ability to wage war would also be greatly diminished.

 

[neut]

The ability to wage war would also be greatly diminished.

i like the sound of that.

wonder if they have alternative energy war machines?


peace.

 

[macidiot]

It's about the money to Toyota too. They earned a $10 BILLION profit last year. (GM and Ford combined to earn $4.3B). So you could argue that Toyota has money to blow on R&D for a hybrid-electric car program. Still, you would think that Ford has some cash to invest in this arena.

I think hybrids will be very attractive here in California if this bill passes. Not necessarily because we're a bunch of tree-huggers but because there's so much friggin' TRAFFIC. Being able to fly solo in the HOV lane would be a boon.

I don't know how much help it would be to traffic...or the environment. Apparently there's a 75,000 hybrid vehicle limit. Only 75k will be issued permits to use the HOV lanes. 75k cars switched to HOV wouldn't do squat for traffic. Or the air. Kind of lame.

And there's a big problem w/hybrids...no one has figured out how to sell them at a profit. Toyota subsidizes it from other sales(probably 4runners) and CAFE credits. And they don't save the consumer any money. Its cheaper to just buy a gas Civic or Focus. The premium you spend to get the hybrid is more than what you will save in gas over an average ownership period.

As for the environmentalists in CA... what's with all the 50 year old school busses around L.A.? As far as I can tell, looking at all the black smoke and smell they spew out, they don't have any emissions controls on them. One of those is probably equal to about 1000 modern cars in terms of emissions. Nasty. Or, just switch lawn mowers and leaf blowers to 4-stroke motors.

And of course, there are the SUV's. Maybe the CA government should just try enforcing the laws already on the books...

 

[Abstract]

....Toyota subsidizes it from other sales(probably 4runners) and CAFE credits. And they don't save the consumer any money. Its cheaper to just buy a gas Civic or Focus. The premium you spend to get the hybrid is more than what you will save in gas over an average ownership period.

You know how Mac users pay squillions on Mac computers and the hardware is crap, but people like you and I STILL buy it because it provides a better OS? Well, I'm sure that even if these people don't "save" money by buying a hybrid, they're not losing any, or at least not a lot of money by buying one, and the benefit of lessening the harmful effects of operating a car on the environment may be worth the extra $500 or so they'll spend during the lifetime of owning the car. Its like the stress and headache people save by buying into a more expensive computer. For many people, there's no "logical" reason for paying more, but some people don't think so linearly.

If I knew I was paying an extra couple of hundred dollars, or even an extra thousand dollars, over the life of the car because it's a hybrid, I'd still buy one. I'd just save a bit more, or borrow a bit more.

 

[OldManJimbo]

As for the environmentalists in CA... what's with all the 50 year old school busses around L.A.? As far as I can tell, looking at all the black smoke and smell they spew out, they don't have any emissions controls on them. One of those is probably equal to about 1000 modern cars in terms of emissions. Nasty. Or, just switch lawn mowers and leaf blowers to 4-stroke motors.

As the owner of a first-generation Prius, I am doing what I can. I can't control the emission of the 20-year school busses, but I can control the emission of my own vehicle. If everyone would stop looking at the spec of dust in their brother's eye and worry about the LOG in their own, we would have a better place to live.

The busses don't bother me as much as the HUGE freaking SUV tanks rolling down the road with ONE person in them.

 

[neut]

questions

As the owner of a first-generation Prius, I am doing what I can. I can't control the emission of the 20-year school busses, but I can control the emission of my own vehicle. If everyone would stop looking at the spec of dust in their brother's eye and worry about the LOG in their own, we would have a better place to live.

The busses don't bother me as much as the HUGE freaking SUV tanks rolling down the road with ONE person in them.

i wonder which has more emissions per year? a 20yr old bus pulling children during the school year or a 2004 H2 driving mom to work everyday?

this makes me wonder which machines are doing the most damage by emissions... what is relatively worse? SUVs; millitary vehicles; factory production; rocket launches? how much emissions does a single rocket launch cause? how many SUVs is that?

what if Ford made space rockets?


peace.

 

[craigdawg]

And of course, there are the SUV's. Maybe the CA government should just try enforcing the laws already on the books...

Thanks for that link. Very interesting...

My argument for the bill is admittedly counter-intuitive. I'm suggesting that people will buy Priuses (Priusi?) because they can drive solo in the HOV lane, not necessarily because it will "help" with emissions. It's a win-win. Unless you're Bill Ford.

10 words: Golden Gate Fields to the toll plaza during rush hour.

 

[sushi]

i wonder which has more emissions per year? a 20yr old bus pulling children during the school year or a 2004 H2 driving mom to work everyday?

this makes me wonder which machines are doing the most damage by emissions... what is relatively worse? SUVs; millitary vehicles; factory production; rocket launches? how much emissions does a single rocket launch cause? how many SUVs is that?

what if Ford made space rockets?


peace.

Mount Saint Helen's would be my guess!

Then

 

[sushi]

i wonder which has more emissions per year? a 20yr old bus pulling children during the school year or a 2004 H2 driving mom to work everyday?

this makes me wonder which machines are doing the most damage by emissions... what is relatively worse? SUVs; millitary vehicles; factory production; rocket launches? how much emissions does a single rocket launch cause? how many SUVs is that?

what if Ford made space rockets?


peace.

Mount Saint Helen's would be my guess!

Sushi

 

[sushi]

Mount Saint Helen's would be my guess!

...or maybe Mount Pinatubo.

Sushi

 

[bousozoku]

i wonder which has more emissions per year? a 20yr old bus pulling children during the school year or a 2004 H2 driving mom to work everyday?

this makes me wonder which machines are doing the most damage by emissions... what is relatively worse? SUVs; millitary vehicles; factory production; rocket launches? how much emissions does a single rocket launch cause? how many SUVs is that?

what if Ford made space rockets?


peace.

The H2 might be somewhat better than the school bus, but not by much. Trucks aren't regulated as stringently as cars and have been several decades back until they were recently updated.

If Ford made space rockets, they'd be more reliable that what Boeing and Lockheed Martin currently provide.

Since rockets tend to use something other than a crude oil-based fuel, they'd be much cleaner in many ways.

The trouble is, even electrically-driven public transportation causes pollution, in many cases. How is the electricity generated? Coal? Oil? Hamsters? Hamsters are especially bad polluters.

 

[FritzTheWonderM]

Trucks aren't regulated as stringently as cars...

Which is why car makers are pushing SUVs, the emissions standards are easier, and the profit margin per vehicle is much higher.

If Ford made space rockets, they'd be more reliable that what Boeing and Lockheed Martin currently provide.

Well I don't think I fly in aircraft made by Ford, but it was funny when Jaguar got bought by Ford and their quality actually improved.

Americans have been demanding horsepower and cool more than efficiency for decades, and that's what the car makers are delivering. I have a 1990 Toyota wagon with 130K miles on it that gets 40mpg on the highway. That's only slightly more than my 1981 Mazda GLC got, 34mpg. Average gas milages have actually dropped in the last 15 years. As long as we are willing to pay $2+ per gallon nothing will change.

But speaking about the environment, what happens everyone is driving electric cars? What do you do with the batteries when you replace them / scrap the car? You have only moved the environmental impact.

 

[MongoTheGeek]

But speaking about the environment, what happens everyone is driving electric cars? What do you do with the batteries when you replace them / scrap the car? You have only moved the environmental impact.

All electric cars are leased for this reason. The batteries do die/decay over time and must be disposed of. The thing is that they are very recyclable and have been recycled for years. The batteries have a high value in raw materials meaning that an electric car is worth far more in scrap that a normal one, and has a greater cost than can be reasonably charged. Buying an electric car instead of leasing one would would put its price almost double standard car costs.

 

[bousozoku]

Which is why car makers are pushing SUVs, the emissions standards are easier, and the profit margin per vehicle is much higher.


Well I don't think I fly in aircraft made by Ford, but it was funny when Jaguar got bought by Ford and their quality actually improved.

Americans have been demanding horsepower and cool more than efficiency for decades, and that's what the car makers are delivering. I have a 1990 Toyota wagon with 130K miles on it that gets 40mpg on the highway. That's only slightly more than my 1981 Mazda GLC got, 34mpg. Average gas milages have actually dropped in the last 15 years. As long as we are willing to pay $2+ per gallon nothing will change.

But speaking about the environment, what happens everyone is driving electric cars? What do you do with the batteries when you replace them / scrap the car? You have only moved the environmental impact.

Yes, the batteries are a concern, but what about all the disposable diapers? That's a lot of doodoo.

Actually, it wasn't funny when Jaguar's quality improved with Ford but it was a good thing. When they dropped the Lucas electrics prior to that, they only got a small boost of reliability. Of course, anyone who had been stuck by the side of the road in a pouring rain would cheer that.

It's also true that average fuel consumption is going up. For years, Ford lost money on U.S. Escorts just to offset the V8 Mustangs. The fact that the Exploder is the best-selling SUV in the country means that they have to sell more Focuses.