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FP sensor only unlocks phone? Bad move Apple.

spinedoc77

spinedoc77

macrumors G4
Original poster
Jun 11, 2009
11,488
5,414
From what I understand the FP sensor only unlocks the phone, lets you buy iTunes items, and I think I read that it lets you buy stuff from the Apple store app. But I read that Apple did not release this as something developers could use in their apps.

Seems like a big mistake on Apple's part. The FP sensor is great if it's for unlocking the phone, but it just seems like it's losing so much potential if it doesn't replace the entire paradigm of passwords on a cell phone. Typing on that little screen is already a pain in the butt, to be able to just use a FP sensor whenever you have to log in or sign in somewhere would be pretty revolutionary to me. My prediction, some Android phone copies the FP sensor but they implement it much more broadly to include all passwords and sign ins and they look like the heroes.

I'm not discounting Apple here, I'm just hoping they give this ability to devs soon. But if they didn't announce it today that means they won't do it for a while, and that means devs have not had this ability, that means we won't see apps like this for a long time if Apple even wants this.

Anyway, I thought it might be an interesting discussion.
 
I look at it in a different light. By keeping it an Apple-only feature and locked inside the A7 chip, as they say, its far more secure for the end-user. By allowing other apps to use it, could potentially become a security problem and render the feature useless altogether.
 
Personally I think they're absolutely right to take a cautious wait and see approach before allowing every Tom Dick & Harry developer access to this protocol. It's a sensible decision.

By contrast, not incorporating NFC is a stupid insular/purely self-serving decision.
 
I foresee dev getting a certain level of access to this.

They way I see it working is like this. Banking app for example. Your password for that app is also locked in the A7 via Apple only software and it releases that info into the app with a fingerprint. This way your fingerprint is secure and so are all your passwords via Apple only software.

I'll let the engineers work out the holes in my theory... Lol
 
spinedoc77 said:
From what I understand the FP sensor only unlocks the phone, lets you buy iTunes items, and I think I read that it lets you buy stuff from the Apple store app. But I read that Apple did not release this as something developers could use in their apps.

Seems like a big mistake on Apple's part.
Click to expand...

I suspect this is a temporary thing and they could not get fingerprint reading integrated into iOS7 and the new iCloud Keychain app, and Safari, and still get everything else done by launch day.

Heck, the combination of the fingerprint reader hardware and the iCloud Keychain app hitting at the same time tells me that what you and I want is exactly what is intended, whether or not it is here yet.

Apple is not so stupid to ignore the greater possibilities here. Authentec, the fingerprint reader maker, certainly knows. This functionality has been on laptops with fingerprint readers for years. I'm sure someone would have brought it up at a meeting. ;)

Looking forward to iOS7.1 :)
Concerned it might not hit till iOS8 :(
 
cynics said:
I foresee dev getting a certain level of access to this.

They way I see it working is like this. Banking app for example. Your password for that app is also locked in the A7 via Apple only software and it releases that info into the app with a fingerprint. This way your fingerprint is secure and so are all your passwords via Apple only software.

I'll let the engineers work out the holes in my theory... Lol
Click to expand...

I too, wouldn't be surprised if in future Apple open up using the FP sensor to Devs. Those Password keeper apps would be easier to use if you can use the FP sensor to unlock them.
 
SandboxGeneral said:
I look at it in a different light. By keeping it an Apple-only feature and locked inside the A7 chip, as they say, its far more secure for the end-user. By allowing other apps to use it, could potentially become a security problem and render the feature useless altogether.
Click to expand...

Which sounds good on paper, but in practice, I think it's virtually impossible to promise it won't come across any databases at any point (maybe Apple's servers, but I mean any at all??), or possibly be exploited.

Or have NSA get their grubby paws on it.

Anything created by man can be un-created. Especially with software code.

I feel it's naive to think that between iOS 7 harmony of hardware and software and using software to process it, it's a private one-traffic only highway of info from CPU to sensor.

Seems like they just don't want to come off NSA freaky-ish and put it to rest.

I dunno maybe I'm off :D

Also, Phil saying 50% of users don't use passwords on their phones, and then announcing this feature that should blow all 100% of us away, it seemed like a blow before it even took off in its announcement.
 
This feature will eventually work with apps. It's really quite simple:

1) app asks for authentication
2) TouchID verifies your fingerprint and then gives the go-ahead to the app

It's a go/no-go process.

Bryan
 
This is Apple's way of entering the banking industry. They will be the payment gateway of many things to come. IMO, Brilliant! Buy APPL Now! ;)
 
Apple disabled the iCloud keychain support from iOS 7. It isn't surprising that they didn't enable devs to access authentication from the OS. It seems that they just haven't had time to release all the stuff they wanted for iOS 7 and pushed these things back.
 
SandboxGeneral said:
I look at it in a different light. By keeping it an Apple-only feature and locked inside the A7 chip, as they say, its far more secure for the end-user. By allowing other apps to use it, could potentially become a security problem and render the feature useless altogether.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I'm glad Apple isn't allowing others to access this information.
 
troutspinner said:
This is Apple's way of entering the banking industry. They will be the payment gateway of many things to come. IMO, Brilliant! Buy APPL Now! ;)
Click to expand...

I agree. Today we witnessed the birth of reliable, working biometric scanning that will change the way we utilize passwords and mobile payments. It's just the beginning. Apple wouldn't have wasted all that tech just to unlock the phone. There is A TON more to come.
 
Veinticinco said:
Personally I think they're absolutely right to take a cautious wait and see approach before allowing every Tom Dick & Harry developer access to this protocol. It's a sensible decision.

By contrast, not incorporating NFC is a stupid insular/purely self-serving decision.
Click to expand...

The first part of what you said is what I thought. It's a huge change in mobile security, so best to start with controlling it with your own apps. I'm guessing iOS 8 will incorporate some APIs to use. This would especially be awesome for banking.
 
Fingerprint reader with screen protector

Does anyone know if the fingerprint sensor will work through screen protectors like Lifeproof/Otterbox, or does it require direct touch?
 
Do you have to use the fingerprint sensor if you don't have a passcode lock on your phone?
 
Honestly, the fingerprint scanner does not impress me at all.

First off, the home button is already pretty volatile. Plenty of my friends have to use the on-screen home button from the Accessibility settings because their home buttons have conked out.

And I get why they only used it to unlock the phone and make App store purchases. With the whole NSA thing going on, people don't want their fingerprints so easily accessible. It's why the stressed that it's not stored in iCloud or on Apple's servers, just encrypted and on the chip of the phone itself.

I'm probably going to get the 5S (even though I think the 5C is a good phone, just not for the price point), and will probably use the fingerprint scanner once or twice to see how it works, but I never felt entering a passcode was a huge hurdle or issue.
 
cclloyd said:
Does anyone know if the fingerprint sensor will work through screen protectors like Lifeproof/Otterbox, or does it require direct touch?
Click to expand...

I've never seen a screen protector cover the home button in previous generations.
 
Veinticinco said:
Personally I think they're absolutely right to take a cautious wait and see approach before allowing every Tom Dick & Harry developer access to this protocol. It's a sensible decision.

By contrast, not incorporating NFC is a stupid insular/purely self-serving decision.
Click to expand...

Your first part makes sense & I can see Apple being hesitant to open up some fingerprint API right away. I bet it will happen eventually, but not until they see how users are using the sensor.

Your second statement runs completely contradictory to the first. You say that Apple is right to be cautious about a technology that uses your physical touch, but they are self-serving for not incorporating a low-adoption technology that carries more inherent risk than the first?
 
Interesting stuff you all bring up. I still think if the fp sensor only unlocks the phone and deals with itunes/apple store it's a one trick pony. It seems kind of cool instead of using a password, but it's not really that crucial for me, maybe just as a bragging point.

It just seems like replacing passwords in general is something revolutionary that only a company like Apple, with so many firsts and revolutionary ideas under its belt, could accomplish. I don't see the security issue at all personally if it was released to devs.

It has not been released to devs though:
http://allthingsd.com/20130910/ipho...ion-for-now-anyway/?mod=atd_homepage_carousel

With no foreseeable plans to release this to devs it seems like it's pretty much dead in the water for now, what a shame and a missed opportunity.
 
spinedoc77 said:
The FP sensor is great if it's for unlocking the phone, but it just seems like it's losing so much potential if it doesn't replace the entire paradigm of passwords on a cell phone. Typing on that little screen is already a pain in the butt, to be able to just use a FP sensor whenever you have to log in or sign in somewhere would be pretty revolutionary to me.
Click to expand...
Hopefully when iCloud keychain gets activated, that will resolve having to type in passwords, credit card numbers, billing/shipping addresses, etc .. both in iOS and OS X.

And interestingly, the headline of the article you link to is a little more optimistic. LOL
"iPhone Developers Won’t Get Fingerprint-Reader Authentication Option — For Now, Anyway".
(emphasis mine)
 
spinedoc77 said:
Interesting stuff you all bring up. I still think if the fp sensor only unlocks the phone and deals with itunes/apple store it's a one trick pony. It seems kind of cool instead of using a password, but it's not really that crucial for me, maybe just as a bragging point.

It just seems like replacing passwords in general is something revolutionary that only a company like Apple, with so many firsts and revolutionary ideas under its belt, could accomplish. I don't see the security issue at all personally if it was released to devs.

It has not been released to devs though:
http://allthingsd.com/20130910/ipho...ion-for-now-anyway/?mod=atd_homepage_carousel


With no foreseeable plans to release this to devs it seems like it's pretty much dead in the water for now, what a shame and a missed opportunity.
Click to expand...
There will be an API down the road, there are many more use cases and apple wants to keep it in house for now. This is standard for apple in the tick-rock cycle. Major feature followed by developer API down the road.

Coded wording from Cook at the end: http://allthingsd.com/20130910/ipho...-reader-authentication-option-for-now-anyway/
 
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