G4 1GHz DP TROUNCED by Athlon!!

[iH8Quark]

DigitalVideoEditing.com does an After Effects head-to-head between the 1GHz DP G4, and a comparably equipped Athlon 1800+MP by Polywell. The G4 is soundly trounced. Read it here.

Well, if this is an accurate representation, I'll be seeing you boys on the Wintel forums. This is my livelihood, and I already feel like my new machine isn't near fast enough. But I thought it was the best I was gonna get.

I'm UN-HAPPY!

G5 at MWNY, or I'm gonna pull the rip cor on this over-priced company. We're getting scr*ewed.

After seeing the results of these tests, we can only conclude that Apple's assertions that G4 workstations are faster than all Pentium 4 or Athlon XP-based systems are exaggerated, at least as far as After Effects is concerned. Not one of the objective tests we conducted using After Effects bore out Apple's claim of Mac superiority. In fact, in most of the tests, the Mac was left lagging far behind. And, this was when we were using a PC whose chips are now three steps below the fastest Athlons available.

Pentium toasting??? I smell baked Apples.

 

[Hemingray]

Beautiful... we Mac users are gluttons for pain aren't we!

I'm not surprised... in fact I'm actually GLAD that the G4 is getting worked... Apple deserves it now. They had the lead back in 1999, but last time I checked this is 2002. And wait... what's that? We're still using the SAME BUS SPEED? We just hit 1GHz in January? They've slacked for far too long.

We are behind, more now than ever. I want to believe that Apple will pull something miraculous this year, but now I just don't know... I'm losing faith. Help me!

 

[Choppaface]

ya i guess most people just decided to consciously overlook this test too

http://www.barefeats.com/pentium4.html


basically it appears that for graphics apps, the pentiums really are kinda porkers, but the althons are damn quick. I have a dual athlonXP 1900+ box, and all I can say (on this board) is that I'm quite happy with it (other than XP...which is just a plain fasion emergency )

one point I'd make though is that people are just too damn impatient if they make such a big deal out of these speed differences. I spend a *lot* of photoshop time using my comparitively old and slow 400mhz G3 Lombard and it certainly hasnt' kept me from getting the job done. alright, maybe if you've decided to render the pod racing scene from star wars this would be a big issue for you, but otherwise a faster machine isnt going to make your work any better, it will only help you do MORE of your already crappy work

 

[Catfish_Man]

Re: G4 1GHz DP TROUNCED by Athlon!!

Originally posted by iH8Quark
DigitalVideoEditing.com does an After Effects head-to-head between the 1GHz DP G4, and a comparably equipped Athlon 1800+MP by Polywell. The G4 is soundly trounced. Read it here.

Well, if this is an accurate representation, I'll be seeing you boys on the Wintel forums. This is my livelihood, and I already feel like my new machine isn't near fast enough. But I thought it was the best I was gonna get.

I'm UN-HAPPY!

G5 at MWNY, or I'm gonna pull the rip cor on this over-priced company. We're getting scr*ewed.

After seeing the results of these tests, we can only conclude that Apple's assertions that G4 workstations are faster than all Pentium 4 or Athlon XP-based systems are exaggerated, at least as far as After Effects is concerned. Not one of the objective tests we conducted using After Effects bore out Apple's claim of Mac superiority. In fact, in most of the tests, the Mac was left lagging far behind. And, this was when we were using a PC whose chips are now three steps below the fastest Athlons available.

Pentium toasting??? I smell baked Apples.

Of course it lost. That's a dual Athlon (so about 1GHz faster total clock speed), and Athlons are faster per clock than Pentium 4s. The G4 stacks up moderately well against single Pentium 4s, but any dual AthlonMP or Pentium 4 system will squish it at non-Altivec heavy tasks (I bet in FCP the story would have been different. Not that the PC can run FCP...). Also, the AthlonMP costs about $300 more per chip than the G4 last I heard. The G4 was introduced to counter the P3, it did an excellent job, but it's getting old. Expect it to lose at anything that isn't specifically optimized for it. January 2003 is going to be a bit different though: G5 vs. Hammer vs. 3GHz Hyperthreaded cache boosted .09 micron Pentium 4. That'll be fun to watch.

 

[mac15]

yep its true our macs aren't that quick
But its the OS that counts so all PC users can
suck it

 

[rEd Eye]

Yep,the OS is the only reason I'm here.Os 9 that is.OSX has yet to gave audio engineers any reason to switch.The apps aren't ready,nor is the OS.
.....and yes,my AMD Athlon 1333Mhz has smoked my Ghz G4 in every audio related benchmark that I've thrown at them!
My top of the line Mac is sloooow!Give me the OS of my choice on the machine of my choice,and my mac would be out the window without a second thought!

 

[Geert]

Originally posted by mac15
yep its true our macs aren't that quick
But its the OS that counts so all PC users can
suck it

nice post Mac15

OK, and let us straighten somthing out here:
First, the AMD, did about the same thing as Apple: saying that athlon should not be measured by Mhz, but rather the cycles that a processor runs at. (the Gigaflops story) in which case the Athlon is running practically running the same cycles as a G4.
Second, this Athlon beast that was used is also a DP@1533Mhz per processor,against the DP G4@1Ghz.
Indeed, AMD has got the advantage on this.



oh well, they haven't got the superior OS though

 

[iGav]

If people really are not happy with the mac, then go off into the wintel world.... do what you have to do...... don't SAY.... DO!!!

The G4 is still a top machine, and it is fast, although just because it isn't the fastest doesn't mean it can't do the job, it comes down to the creativity of the user to get the best out of the hardware.... a couple of minutes render time here or there really isn't going to make that much of a difference...... I do s**ts loads of rendering on my TiBook 500, does it bother me that it's not as quick as the latest PC??? not at all..... the work I do on it is in my clients words... "Exceptional" the fact that it takes me a little longer to render the work doesn't mean that the mac can't cope....... and it's doomed!!

But if people are really as concerned as some of you sound about the slight speed disadvantage the G4 has with regards to an Athlon on AE renders, then I really think you need to;

A: Get out more......
B: Concentrate on on the work alittle more and less about how it's seconds slower than a PC..... or
C: Get a life....

 

[mac15]

With all this crap about PCs are faster
I have to ad that MAC OS X is only at version *.1.4
and who cares about it
If it can't run OS X then what good is it
Long live the MAC

 

[mmmdreg]

OK..compared to the PC world...our OS wins though it can still be improved...our hardware is outofdate and needs updating (ie..processors)...and the reason for our slowishness is due to the need to get a superG4 or G5...the G4 is really getting old now and needs replacing..but still, OSX is the biggest reason to stay for me...

 

[GigaWire]

well with Apple setting itself up to make a run at Avid, I doubt the future of video/film lies on a PC platform...

 

[mymemory]

Originally posted by iGAV
.... a couple of minutes render time here or there really isn't going to make that much of a difference......

Man, last week I was doing a render in Artmatic, it started monday at 10:30pm, it finished wensday at 2:30 pm. 3 days to do a 640 x 480, 5 minutes at 30fps on layer render. That was with a G4 400.

Mac has always been slow computers, may be faster thna the one that your mom use at work but for rendering and other stuff are slow.

The OS (9) is one of the good things about Macs and of course the compatibility with the peripherals, not to worrie "if this card is gonna work with the motherboard, etc".

Macs has that one for sure, but for the price/Mhz we are spending too much.

That is why I'm stuck with my G4 400, because I do not see a Powermac as efficience as my Pismo (in a manner of speaking).

 

[Geert]

Igav says,

If people really are not happy with the mac, then go off into the wintel world.... do what you have to do...... don't SAY.... DO!!!

The G4 is still a top machine, and it is fast, although just because it isn't the fastest doesn't mean it can't do the job, it comes down to the creativity of the user to get the best out of the hardware.... a couple of minutes render time here or there really isn't going to make that much of a difference...... I do s**ts loads of rendering on my TiBook 500, does it bother me that it's not as quick as the latest PC??? not at all..... the work I do on it is in my clients words... "Exceptional" the fact that it takes me a little longer to render the work doesn't mean that the mac can't cope....... and it's doomed!!

But if people are really as concerned as some of you sound about the slight speed disadvantage the G4 has with regards to an Athlon on AE renders, then I really think you need to;

A: Get out more......
B: Concentrate on on the work alittle more and less about how it's seconds slower than a PC..... or
C: Get a life....

You're absolutely right!!

Mac15 says,

With all this crap about PCs are faster
I have to ad that MAC OS X is only at version *.1.4
and who cares about it
If it can't run OS X then what good is it
Long live the MAC

Indeed, XP is once more old wine in new bottles.
X is brand new, we're at the beginning of a new dawn in the Apple Era.
X rules.
Who cares about those couple of seconds fasterwhen you're OS stinks like hell? right, only colorless people (like they're peecees our colorless), no fantasy, no inspiration, no nothing, just a crappy OS!!!
I once read an article that a teacher or employer (not sure anymore) wrote, the guy said something that people who use macs are far more superior when it came to independency, creativity and so on.
Because a peecee did not offer any freedom for the user, and the user just lived with the problem (where a mac user looks for improvement, alternatives,...)

And come on, ever thought about AMD or Intel developing they're own OS, hahahaha.
Or windows releasing their own hardware, hahaha (we all saw the result of that one )
AMD/Intel says ok the windows XP will be designed for our new specs.
and M$ says chips will be developed to meet the windows XP OS.
Apple says, we'll design hard and software that way we can adjust where necessary.
Who will have the biggest possibility to grow and survive?!?
And even if the others decide to do what Apple has already been doing for the last 2,5 decades, they will die for sure (so we all state then: merge, merge, merge, merge, die, die, die, die)

oeps, sorry, I'll try to get a grip for other posts

 

[iGav]

Man, last week I was doing a render in Artmatic, it started monday at 10:30pm, it finished wensday at 2:30 pm. 3 days to do a 640 x 480, 5 minutes at 30fps on layer render. That was with a G4 400.

If you using Artmatic, and are doing alot of stuff that requires those kind of, shall we say, hmmm, intense visuals..... maybe it's time for you to uprgrade to a faster machine....... if you want decent render times, although I've had no render go longer than 10 hours on my TiBook, and that's for PAL broadcast...

Mac has always been slow computers, may be faster thna the one that your mom use at work but for rendering and other stuff are slow.

What.....?????? A Dual GHZ G4 machine, is not slow, sure it maybe not the fastest at certain tasks..... but it ain't slow......

Macs has that one for sure, but for the price/Mhz we are spending too much.

That is why I'm stuck with my G4 400, because I do not see a Powermac as efficience as my Pismo (in a manner of speaking).

Sure there are expensive, but to get a similarly spec'd PC from a brand name PC company, such as Dell then there really isn't always that much difference between a Mac and a PC......

I don't get what you mean about efficency though.......



Oh well....... I love my TiBook 500, it does what I ask it too, I believe it is still a very powerful machine.......... And it helps me do what I love so much.....

CREATE and be CREATIVE.........

 

[Backtothemac]

Zealot Rant.

Hey, I am not happy that the Athlon spanked the G4, but as the former owner of an Athlon 1400, I could have told you this would happen. The Athlon has a better memory system, better bus, and in my opinion, a better processor. That being said, when did Apple ever claim that the G4 was faster than the Athlon.

The guy that writes this article claims that Apple has exaggerated its claims. Bull$hit!! They said the new 1Ghz G4 was faster at video encoding and photoshop when compared to an INTEL machine.

Everyone who knows anything about computers knows that AMD kicks A$$. I would love to see an Apple machine with their procs. Anyway, although the Athlon was faster, I would still rather have my Mac.

I wonder if they adjusted the time in the tests for the BSOD?

 

[jefhatfield]

IT is also my livelihood...but one question,

do you mean the 1800+ XP when referring to the athlon?

i only have access to athlon, athlon XP, and athlon 4 in a laptop at the local mall stores i have visited

 

[jvaska]

it's funny...not only are people mac fans...but they are also fans of computing in general...

so, their love for macs has NOTHING to do with macs at all?...their passion lies purely in speed afterall...i guess macs were fastest at one time...

that's fine really...to each his own...

SO...all the constant complaints about the m$ OS' are really not valid?

i remember way back in the day when i would spend countless hours trying to fix stupid things...and i remember the recent days when my pc friends have to spend their idle times fixing stupid things...but if the machine is "faster" woohoo!

oh well...as a designer who works with lots of marketers and advertisers it's comforting to know that hype is still alive post-dot.com failure and that the "early-adopter" mentality is alive and well and busting out...

we live in the post-age-of-reason...get your credit cards revved up!

i'm not very reasonable myself...i'll stick with my mac...and i'll buy a new one within the year...whether it's the fastest on the market...or even the slowest...i just have this irrational trust and respect for them after many years of continual usage...

 

[iH8Quark]

Originally posted by iGAV
But if people are really as concerned as some of you sound about the slight speed disadvantage the G4 has with regards to an Athlon on AE renders, then I really think you need to;

A: Get out more......
B: Concentrate on on the work alittle more and less about how it's seconds slower than a PC..... or
C: Get a life....

err...umm...you don't have to get personal about it.

And if my computer rendered faster, I COULD

A: Get out more....
B: Concentrate on the work a little more
C: Get a life.

And, sure it might only be a few minutes behind in the FINAL render, but try letting you computer render each frame as you click through the comp over and over to tweak it. Those minutes add up to hours in a hurry. I'm not editing home videos here. I'm doing extremely high end CGI with film res. clips. It adds up.

And yes, I do love my Mac. I'm with it for more reasons than speed (or lack of). But it's frustrating when you work on them for so many hours a day to see the finished product suffer because you ran out of time. Especially when you see so much potential in Apple to make great products.

 

[Grokgod]

This article proves one thing to me!

After reading this I am convinced that Mac's are the best and the fastest!

Ok, follow my train of thought and tell me if I am crazy.

They put the Mac vs the Athalon.
The Athalon had over 500 points in speed over the Mac.
And the Mac lost by mere minutes and sometimes seconds!

I never thought that Apple hertz was better than Pcheese.
I mean speed is speed, really. Numbers dont lie.

but i think that the point here is that despite the slow sdram vs ddr.
Despite the new OSX,
Despite the speed difference.

The Powermac was still in the league!

This mean to me, that Apples are on the right track and when they get DDRam, with some speed bumps. Its going to be great.

Also, I realize that those minutes can add up to hours as one of the posters stated.
But lets not forget the amount of time that pcheese uses up with reboots and faulty upgrades and all that WINXP garbage.
I dont want to spend my life looking at ugly GUI's just to save a few minutes when I have walked away from the computer to live life while it renders!
< I think that this is a good point >

I really take this as a good sign, maybe I am crazy.
I would have thought that the Athalon would have blown away the mac, considering the manner in which they were speaking.

Cripes, I am amazed that they managed to get a video editing card installed and working in the Pcheese. Oh no wait, it was in AfterEffects without actually film footage because their real world testing didnt involve getting any actual video onto the HD.

 

[buffsldr]

Originally posted by mmmdreg
OK..compared to the PC world...our OS wins though it can still be improved...our hardware is outofdate and needs updating (ie..processors)...and the reason for our slowishness is due to the need to get a superG4 or G5...the G4 is really getting old now and needs replacing..but still, OSX is the biggest reason to stay for me...

All i can say is that I think you meant to say "(e.g. processors)". "ie" means "in other words", e.g. means for example.

 

[buffsldr]

Originally posted by iGAV


A: Get out more......
B: Concentrate on on the work alittle more and less about how it's seconds slower than a PC..... or
C: Get a life....

No offense, iGav, but you are talking to people (me included) who bump around a macrumors web site like vultures...salivating over every new thread that might bring sweet relief from the boredom we are racked with. And you.... with your 330+ posts since march may need to apply option a,b,or c to yourself. I know I need to. I often have wondered why people on this site are so wrapped up in speed. Clearly, this is not the most focused cross section of humanity.

 

[ejm625]

Put DDR in the DP GHz and then retake the test... That will be more legit.

 

[desmosedici]

ah yes! another article by charlie white. always an amusing read.
any article or review he does that involves anything to do with apple, will have apple "getting done". though he once said fcp was a "hip nle...the one to beat", while implying it's days were numbered. search out his recent article on the new ibm 20" flat screen, or avid or media 100. very amusing. so some renders are seconds to minutes slower. 30 minutes lost a day in render time. it suits me to do ae renders overnight. i know what platform helps me be the most productive....apple....daylight second. get over it or get a pc

 

[iGav]

And, sure it might only be a few minutes behind in the FINAL render, but try letting you computer render each frame as you click through the comp over and over to tweak it. Those minutes add up to hours in a hurry. I'm not editing home videos here. I'm doing extremely high end CGI with film res. clips. It adds up.

Have you looked into getting an acceleration card?? Media 100 have a relatively cheap solution with the ICE Ultra card, that has an extra 8 processors to help speed up renders and real time previews?? These things fly for very little outlay...... and would certainly help your productivity..... Indeed if you're doing hi res, film output quality then I'm suprised you are not already working on a souped up system as opposed to a standard G4!!

And yes, I do love my Mac. I'm with it for more reasons than speed (or lack of). But it's frustrating when you work on them for so many hours a day to see the finished product suffer because you ran out of time. Especially when you see so much potential in Apple to make great products.

Well ask yourself this question:

Do I believe that I'd be more productive on the PC?? because certain models have a slight speed advantage?? And it is slight remember.......??

If yes..... Buy an Athlon PC
If no..... keep the mac....


The finished product shouldn't really suffer because you ran out of time..... that's down to time and project management...... sure things get to be a bit of a squeeze towards a deadline, but solid time and project management makes the world of difference.....

Ultimately though the quality of the finished product is down to the skill and creativity of the user! Work produced on a PC is not of any better quality than what can be produced on a mac......

I'm off to breakfast!!!