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G4 Futurosity

Mr. Anderson

Mr. Anderson

Moderator emeritus
Original poster
Nov 1, 2001
22,568
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VA
So, with the passing of the G3, we move on to a new era of mac computing. Looking at the current lineup we have two processors - G4s and G5s. Given the limited upgradability of the G4 in its current configuration and Motorola's track record/promises/performance (lack thereof), I'm a bit of a sceptic here, thinking that we won't see any major improvements that will allow Apple to continue using the G4 in their low end/portable machines for as long as the G4 has been used to date.

Not to start the rumors so soon, but seeing a G5 in the PowerBooks at MWSF 2004 in January now seems to be a possibility. Even though no real info or hints have come out on the G5s for portables, there really weren't all that many leaks on the G4 iBooks until they were practically released today.

The big question is whether the G4 will be a viable chip by the end of 2004. I'd love to see an across the board G5 line up and don't see any real reason this couldn't be a reality by MWSF 2005......

D
 
I don't know whether it could be so much as that it should be. This coming January, we'll have 3 years of G4 powered PowerBooks. We saw over 4 years of G4's in desktops, and I personally feel the G5 was way overdo then it was announced this past summer.

What I'm thinking, and I'm sure most will agree, is we're going to see G4 powered, "lower end" machines while the higher performance ones get G5'd. It makes me question, though, how much longer Apple will be dealing with Motorola?
 
Everyone is going to start iching for a G5 powerbook now, myself included. However, I think it really is to Apple's benefit to get as much use out of the G4 as they can while they wait for G5 designs to be ready. That way consumers can do the same. G5 powerbooks in January would really be a relief from those crusty old G4s.:)
 
Originally posted by eyelikeart
is we're going to see G4 powered, "lower end" machines while the higher performance ones get G5'd. It makes me question, though, how much longer Apple will be dealing with Motorola?
Click to expand...

But we've already seen the low end G4s for quite some time (iMacs, eMacs). And we've not seen anything over 1.4 GHz on these chips.

Possible Scenario:

Next iteration of the PowerMacs go all dual 2.4, 2.0, 1.8. iMacs, eMacs and PowerBooks go single G5s - iBooks stay with the G4s for a bit.

I know there is talk of a newer G4 from Motorola - we've talked about that in these forums plenty of times. But that might only give the G4 line another year of decent competition, if we ever see that from Motorola.

If IBM can produce upgrades to the G5 like they've planned, what's to say we couldn't see all G5s in Apple products in a 18 months....

D
 
If Motorola would have kicked the 7457-RM (RIO+integrated memory controller) out the door, it would have been worthy of the G5 stamp.

Heck it would have probably beat the PPC 970 in some cases -- at the same clock speed.

But without any real news of that chip on the horizon, and the chip following the 7457-RM with an expanded memory bus -- the viability of the G-Series from Motorola is fading.
 
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
But we've already seen the low end G4s for quite some time (iMacs, eMacs). And we've not seen anything over 1.4 GHz on these chips.
Click to expand...

I know...and it's sad. I'm partial to your possible scenarios though. Motorola had a terrible time producing anything past the introduction of the G4, and I'm more than willing to bet IBM won't follow suit.

I do feel we'll see the G4 for a bit longer in the lower end machines though...maybe another year til they hit that 1.4GHz wall again. Hopefully, by that point, there will be something ready to bump them up significantly.
 
Originally posted by eyelikeart

I do feel we'll see the G4 for a bit longer in the lower end machines though...maybe another year til they hit that 1.4GHz wall again. Hopefully, by that point, there will be something ready to bump them up significantly.
Click to expand...

well, the key to the 1.4 GHz is cooling - if you've opened up a dual 1.4 machine you'd be scared of the heat sink ;)

I think for laptops the 1.25 might be the current limit due to heat issues. So going any higher will require a new chip - which puts Apple at the mercy of Moto again. And now by going to the G5, what motivation do they have to make faster chips?

If Moto doesn't come out with a newer, faster, smaller G4 soon, the end of life for the G4 is much sooner than later. How many people are going to want to buy a 1.25 GHz G4 iBook in 2005? Especially with what will be available in the PC world for laptops by then.....

D
 
Originally posted by eyelikeart
What I'm thinking, and I'm sure most will agree, is we're going to see G4 powered, "lower end" machines while the higher performance ones get G5'd. It makes me question, though, how much longer Apple will be dealing with Motorola?
Click to expand...

With Motorola spinning their semiconductor business off, Apple will no longer be dealing with Motorola. It will be do or die time for that company and they need to reassure the companies that buy products from them that they will continue to be around and evolve them. Cisco buys processors from them for use in some of their equipment. Other companies use products from them as well, and if any of them feel that in anyway that the products they use may cease to exist or become in short supply, they will most likely redesign their products to use one from another company. With the former Motorola division just now moving to the .13-micron process while the rest of the industry is moving to .09, they are behind the times. The next three to six months will show if they are dedicated to surviving.
 
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
well, the key to the 1.4 GHz is cooling - if you've opened up a dual 1.4 machine you'd be scared of the heat sink ;)
Click to expand...

I've seen it...freakish! :eek:

But u are right, although I'm speaking more generally in terms of the 1.4. I could see it taking shape in a revamped iMac (if those rumors see fruition). As for the PowerBook, who knows. I'm hoping IBM has been good about it's rumor mill of the portable G5 chip. It would be nice to be completely taken by surprise on that front anyway.

I think the bottom line here, is that Moto is dead for future Apple support...has been for a while...just slowly dying.
 
Originally posted by eyelikeart
I think the bottom line here, is that Moto is dead for future Apple support...has been for a while...just slowly dying.
Click to expand...

exactly!

That just makes the future possibilities looking towards the G5s. The only other option would be for IBM to do the G4 manufacturing, but that brings along a whole set of other issues....

And for MWSF 2004 - who would complain about a 1.2 GHz G5 in their PowerBook?!? :D

D
 
Isn't IBM working on a G3 with AltiVec slated for 1.1 and 1.3 GHz?

I still wonder if Apple wont rebrand that a G4 and stick it in the iBook I mean if it's the iBook G4 now and its at 1GHz...it could easily go to 1.1 and 1.3 GHz as the "branded G4".

IBM doesn't seem to want to stop development on the G3 and once they put in AltiVec wouldn't it be just as good (maybe better then) as the current G4? Just a thought.

macboyX
 
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
The only other option would be for IBM to do the G4 manufacturing, but that brings along a whole set of other issues....
Click to expand...

There's always going to be some sort of issue...would it be as exciting if it were so easy? ;)
 
Originally posted by MacBoyX
Isn't IBM working on a G3 with AltiVec slated for 1.1 and 1.3 GHz?

I still wonder if Apple wont rebrand that a G4 and stick it in the iBook I mean if it's the iBook G4 now and its at 1GHz...it could easily go to 1.1 and 1.3 GHz as the "branded G4".
Click to expand...

yeah, there has been talk about that before - but if IBM has bought the rights to AltiVec and plans to release new G3/G4 chips at higher clock speeds in the near future - why did Apple choose to go with the current G4?

Unless this isn't the current G4?!?!?! :D

D
 
t looks like Apple clearly wants all processors to have Altivec (or equiv.).
Apple is in the driver seat. To get Apple's consumer level market; IBM needs add Altivec to it G3 (750 series) and/or Motorola needs to do something like the 7457-RM. But Apple is not likely interested in the RM. More likely interested in a 7457-HM (doesn't exist to my knowledge). Where the "H" is Hypertransport instead RapidIO.
 
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
yeah, there has been talk about that before - but if IBM has bought the rights to AltiVec and plans to release new G3/G4 chips at higher clock speeds in the near future - why did Apple choose to go with the current G4?

Unless this isn't the current G4?!?!?! :D

D
Click to expand...

My thought as well but I don't think the AltiVec G3 is available yet. And maybe it was just to get us there now??? Maybe they had alot of leftovers? Maybe a quota to fill to get out of the Motorola contract? Dunno? I still stick by my gut feeling that Apple isn't investing in Motorola anymore. IBM all the way.

Why get into the G4 at all at this point? Hmmm soo many questions that only time will answer...

Only one person knows for sure...and you know his Motto!...

Loose Lips Sink Ships!

macboyX
 
Originally posted by MacBoyX
Why get into the G4 at all at this point? Hmmm soo many questions that only time will answer...
Click to expand...

well, if it requires retooling the boards for the iBook, then that might seem an even more odd turn of events. But on thinking on this, I'm wondering if what the iBooks are getting aren't an older version of the TiPB mobo's with a newer/faster chip.....

That would cut costs and allow for an upgrade to a faster IBM G3 AltiVec later....

Like you said, too many questions and no answers :p

D
 
i think what this means is g4 ibooks & emacs for the next 2 years with a phasing in of the G5imac and g5 powerbooks early next year and higher clocked dual G5's in the protowers. I think the G4 will get up to about 1.9 gigs before it dies. This will give Apple a good consumer line-Emac & Ibook and then the prosumer line single G5 imac or cube and the g5's towers & powerbooks to come. to bad this didnt happen last year anyways it seems apple is moving the products forward faster then at any time in the past 3 years and this is great for all of us. My son was talking about a emac for christmas & this makes it easier.
 
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
.... I think the G4 will get up to about 1.9 gigs before it dies....
Click to expand...

Hmmm.... any G3 + Altivec = G4?
Thus, an IBM made G3 (Mojave, or Gobi) added IBM's SIMD unit, could be called a G4 by Apple, right?
If so, then yeah: the G4 still has a lot of life in it, maybe even capable of reaching 2 Ghz somewhere in 2004....

If the G4 remains Moto-territory, well... then pressumably not. Can't imagine Moto launching new PPC's for personal computers.
Maybe the G4's now used in the PowerBooks gets into the new iBooks next year (quite alot of difference between a 1.33 GHz G4 with 512 K L2 cache, and 800 MHz G4 with 256 K L2 cache), while the PowerBooks get the G5.
I also expect the iMac to get the G5 second half 2004, leaving the eMac as the only desktop G4 in Apple's stores.
The G4 as we know it now "can" be maxed out to 1.42 GHz, but with heat issues. the 1.33 Ghz can be produced OK (Xserves and PowerBooks), leaving me thinking that the max speed of the current G4's is 1.33 GHz, escpecially in non-easily cooled towers.

My question is: is 1.33 GHz fast enough for low-end Macs by the end of 2004?
If the G5 is at 3 Ghz by fall next year, won't the speed gap be far too big?
Picture the difference: 1.33 GHz G4 eMac vs. Dual 3.0 GHz Tower G5....
If not: then IBM's "G4" must kick into action! We'll see pretty soon, if ya ask me.... :)
 
I'm going to take a S.W.A.G. and say that the G5 came far too late to save Amiga, Inc. from it's impending bankrupty (yes, again :rolleyes: ).

Seems like the hardware/software kept falling further behind schedule and the May-June 2003 introduction for their new hardware and software is long past. And so is the rent on the facilities and website.

Court date coming in December 2003 -- bankruptcy will probably follow somewhere around that date.

---

So the "other" company Motorola may have been hoping to soak up some large shipments of G4 processors, will once again struggle to survive. :rolleyes:
 
please remember apple made a big investment in the G5, the next update by the way will be xserveG5 and then faster G5 towers. Im hoping to see a cube like device g5 or g5 imac or anniversary edition G5 near the first of the year to fill the gap between pro towers and the rest of the line up. G5 is Apple's future though if g4's clocks were at 2 gig or better at this moment they wouldnt need a g5 anyways we all know moto and so does steve so look for more G5's coming our way.
 
Does anyone know what processor the new ibook is using. Not G3 or G4 or G5 but the actual model number. I doubt it but who is to say that the g4 in the ibook is not the gobi or mohavi chip from ibm.
 
Originally posted by MacsRgr8
The G4 as we know it now "can" be maxed out to 1.42 GHz, but with heat issues. the 1.33 Ghz can be produced OK (Xserves and PowerBooks), leaving me thinking that the max speed of the current G4's is 1.33 GHz, escpecially in non-easily cooled towers.
Click to expand...

Actually the 7445/7455 maxed out at 1.42Ghz and that was built on a .18 process...the 7447/7457 is built on a .13 process, which should allow the G4 to scale higher with less heat issues if I understand everything I have read. I am no computer expert, but I think we will see 1.6 to 1.8-2.0 G4's in consumer machines before they are totally phased out. I don't think the current 7447 in the new Powerbooks are even close to being maxed out at the present time. Also, I am not sure how this effects scale of Mhz, but it was always my understanding that the Motorola G4's would be easier to scale higher because they were designed with more pipeline stages then the IBM G3's.
 
Originally posted by jonapete2001
Does anyone know what processor the new ibook is using. Not G3 or G4 or G5 but the actual model number. I doubt it but who is to say that the g4 in the ibook is not the gobi or mohavi chip from ibm.
Click to expand...
Probably something along the lines of (for the 1GHz iBook model)...

Motorola MC7445ARX1000WG

of course it could be using a different temp processor than the W range (85°C).
 
Newbie question:
Could anyone explain full alti-vec to me please, or link to somewhere that can...?

As far as i can see it's some kinda of technology that G4's require, and certain aps are built around (iMovie?)

I'm a recent switcher! Be gentle!
Hob
 
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