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retta283

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Jun 8, 2018
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Doing my typical eBay browsing I notice a lot less PowerBook G4 systems for sale than before and a lot of the ones that are there are banged up junk that needs work to getting running. I'm seeing some functional 12" systems but for more than they're worth. At this point I'm looking for one of those or a nice 17". For 17" I can't find anything worthwhile anymore.

Anyone else notice a decline in these G4 listings? Any other machines you've seen that are getting scarce/pricey as of late? I think the iMac G4 is getting the same way but it's always been messed up on price.
 
I'm not totally surprised honestly. They're getting older all the time, so I would imagine supply will continue waining more and more. Here (Denmark) it was honestly hard finding PowerBook G4s even 5 years ago. Though the iMacs always seemed to be priced reasonably in the few listings I've seen; Including the one I bought :D
Oddly it seems easier to find G3s than G4s. And good luck if you want a Cube; Those are basically impossible to get.

Have you tried searching outside of eBay? Gumtree, Facebook Marketplace, Freecycle etc.?
It's a Danish site but I found all my PowerPC Macs on Den Blå Avis. Really good prices, good conditions and good to deal with sellers.
 
Doing my typical eBay browsing I notice a lot less PowerBook G4 systems for sale than before and a lot of the ones that are there are banged up junk that needs work to getting running. I'm seeing some functional 12" systems but for more than they're worth. At this point I'm looking for one of those or a nice 17". For 17" I can't find anything worthwhile anymore.

Anyone else notice a decline in these G4 listings? Any other machines you've seen that are getting scarce/pricey as of late? I think the iMac G4 is getting the same way but it's always been messed up on price.
I honestly don't look on eBay much for computer stuff (I think it just makes me anxious) but on my local sites the number of PPC era stuff in general has been declining for the last few years. G4 iMacs are so unique that they have always been crazy with pricing for sure. Like @casperes1996 said there's less and less each day, and I think people want to reclaim some nostalgia. I remember seeing some yotuube video like 4 or 5 years ago that talked about how prices are close to MSRP when the machines are new, then drops to almost worthless (people throw it away), and then starts to climb up as people want to collect them. The video predicted iBook prices would start to rise gradually over the next few years, and it looks like it was right.
 
eBay has always been my go-to for a number of reasons, one is because eBay almost favors the buyer too much when it comes to damaged items, fraud and returns. I'm not one of the people that abuses this system but the protection is nice. I'm not one to do a lot of fix-up work on some of these (iBooks and 12" PowerBooks in particular) due to time so I prefer to get them in working order from the start.

There are some other sites, Gumtree is not a thing in North America though, I don't know if I need a Facebook account to use the marketplace, because I will not register one, Freecycle I might have to look into. Before the pandemic I used Craigslist with varying levels of success but not since then. I may have to look out for some new sites.
 
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You can browse FB marketplace without an account but unfortunately you need to sign up to actually reply to ads. (I've borrowed a friend's account to respond to listings before.) My local freecycle doesn't really have anything, maybe you'll be more lucky. There's also Offerup but it seems pretty dead now.
 
These old computers come in waves on eBay. It may just be a bad time of year to look. I'd just setup a search alert on eBay. Then check it every so often to see if anything interesting pops up.
 
Maybe its because Apple made very few G4's ? Possibly, 6 million to 10 million units and if you consider the time from when they were made, this explains why they are hard to find. Apple really hated PPC it seems, but I am happy Intel is getting a taste of its own medicine with M1. M1 is like a PowerPC - its not an intel machine.
 
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I know Apple must have produced not a lot of PB G4 1Ghz titanium’s as to the ops question - yes, anything PowerPC is getting harder and harder to find on eBay.. what’s strange is I can find more TI-99/4a computers on eBay and that was produced 45 years ago !
 
G4 Macs were mass-produced, just like Intel ones.


So what? ARM, PPC, x86 - that doesn't matter as long as the computer does what the user needs/wants it to. A computer is just a tool.
They may have been mass produced, but certainly they should not be an issue finding on eBay, yet they are hard to find - for example, why is it so hard to find a PB G4 DLSD ? Did Apple not make enough of them ? 2005-2006 till now is not that long ago, yet a computer of the 1980s called a TI-99 you can find almost everyday on eBay, some brand new mostly used in great condition. Seems, Apple didn’t mass produce enough G4 PB DLSD in 15 and 17 inch, so 15 years later a lot of them can be found on eBay.

if you do a look up on eBay for G5 Quad, you will find 1-2 listings of this.
 
why is it so hard to find a PB G4 DLSD ?
It's possible that those who had a DLSD but wanted to get rid of it did so years ago, while those who have a DLSD now are holding on to it. The fact that the DLSD was only sold new for a few months (October 2005 to February/April 2006) possibly also contributes to their scarcity compared to other models.
 
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They may have been mass produced, but certainly they should not be an issue finding on eBay, yet they are hard to find - for example, why is it so hard to find a PB G4 DLSD ? Did Apple not make enough of them ? 2005-2006 till now is not that long ago, yet a computer of the 1980s called a TI-99 you can find almost everyday on eBay, some brand new mostly used in great condition. Seems, Apple didn’t mass produce enough G4 PB DLSD in 15 and 17 inch, so 15 years later a lot of them can be found on eBay.

if you do a look up on eBay for G5 Quad, you will find 1-2 listings of this.

Because collectors keep the computers they really like. The Ti-99 is more like that baseball card every kid keeps trading. You sort of want it for your collection but it's first to go if you need space or money.

Also to actually use it with any convenience. The Ti-99 needs dedicated shelf/desk space and a bulky screen. The PBook can be slipped vertically on your bookshelf and used just about anywhere.
 
Doing my typical eBay browsing I notice a lot less PowerBook G4 systems for sale than before and a lot of the ones that are there are banged up junk that needs work to getting running. I'm seeing some functional 12" systems but for more than they're worth. At this point I'm looking for one of those or a nice 17". For 17" I can't find anything worthwhile anymore.

Anyone else notice a decline in these G4 listings? Any other machines you've seen that are getting scarce/pricey as of late? I think the iMac G4 is getting the same way but it's always been messed up on price.
I’ve noticed this too. There are a lot of G4 PowerBooks but most are overpriced and in less than Ives shape.
I’ve gotten most my stuff from shopgoodwill, and recycle centers. A few things on Craigslist. I got a PowerBook 1400 and a rev B Bondi iMac on Craigslist last week actually.

It’s not too hard to find things, I just have to have patience. My next goal is to find a clamshell iBook for less than $200. Almost pulled the trigger on a couple already.
 
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I’ve noticed this too. There are a lot of G4 PowerBooks but most are overpriced and in less than Ives shape.
I’ve gotten most my stuff from shopgoodwill, and recycle centers. A few things on Craigslist. I got a PowerBook 1400 and a rev B Bondi iMac on Craigslist last week actually.

It’s not too hard to find things, I just have to have patience. My next goal is to find a clamshell iBook for less than $200. Almost pulled the trigger on a couple already.
Yep, patience is key. I got a Macintosh II. Which I think was owned by AMD. For under $100. Just needed a recap, HDD, FDD lube and retrobrite.
 
They may have been mass produced, but certainly they should not be an issue finding on eBay, yet they are hard to find - for example, why is it so hard to find a PB G4 DLSD ? Did Apple not make enough of them ? 2005-2006 till now is not that long ago, yet a computer of the 1980s called a TI-99 you can find almost everyday on eBay, some brand new mostly used in great condition. Seems, Apple didn’t mass produce enough G4 PB DLSD in 15 and 17 inch, so 15 years later a lot of them can be found on eBay.

if you do a look up on eBay for G5 Quad, you will find 1-2 listings of this.

Aside from what others have mentioned, PowerBook A1138 and A1139 models were not sold for very long, and both were only offered several months after the switch to Intel was announced in June 2005. To the average consumer in late ’05, the DLSDs and the SLSDs appeared to be basically the same 1.67GHz model, but the former was being sold for about $200 less (and with a higher-res LCD). That was it. A lot of pro consumers back then opted on a wait-and-see approach for the upcoming Intel MacBook Pros.

As for the PowerBook A1025 (the 867MHz and 1.0GHz models), two considerations reflect probable lower production numbers.

One was overall build quality, fit, and finish of the Titanium series, whose flimsy, fragile hinges were already a known problem by the time of the November 2002 A1025 867MHz/1.0GHz release. By 2005, hinges were no longer available from Apple as OEM replacement parts, with working hinges from donor PowerBooks going for as high as $250, each, on eBay at the time (with third-party hinges, plus servicing, increasing that to $350). In fact, the 400MHz Ti PB I acquired in a trade in August 2005 was a recent recipient of a donor-sourced hinge, and by then, other components of that particular Titanium-series design, like plastic cracks, made it necessary to relegate it to basically a compact desktop server.)

By late 2002, plastic fixtures, like the top case frame, were already known to crack easily and discolour quickly. The novelty of the Titanium design, by late 2002, especially considering then-known costs and upkeep issues, was nowhere what it was in January 2001 (when that form factor was débuted). Moreover, the A1025s still relied on PC-133 memory, all of which were already on the way out (and something consumers at the time regarded as a near-term dead-end, with no path to upgrading beyond 1GB) at a time when much faster PC-2700 SO-DIMMs had become the new standard for new laptops.

Two was how, barely 60 days after the A1025s went on sale, the aluminium 12" and 17" models débuted, leaving consumers who regarded the 15" form factor to be their “goldilocks” ideal, to either try out these new models or wait a few months longer for a 15" aluminium model to premiere. For those final eight-and-a-half months, the Titanium 867MHz/1GHz models were fragile units lacking Bluetooth, Airport Extreme, and much in the way of forward-compatibility, and people shopping around knew to probably wait until the next 15" refresh.

I hope this clears up any residual confusion you’ve had about that series of PowerBooks.
 
Not following these too closely right now as I have all I want but I don't think so. Prices have risen for the most part because: vintage but there seems to be plenty around and relative bargains to be had.

This for instance, current market considering:

Screenshot 2021-03-21 at 10.09.52.png
 
Aside from what others have mentioned, PowerBook A1138 and A1139 models were not sold for very long, and both were only offered several months after the switch to Intel was announced in June 2005. To the average consumer in late ’05, the DLSDs and the SLSDs appeared to be basically the same 1.67GHz model, but the former was being sold for about $200 less (and with a higher-res LCD). That was it. A lot of pro consumers back then opted on a wait-and-see approach for the upcoming Intel MacBook Pros.

As for the PowerBook A1025 (the 867MHz and 1.0GHz models), two considerations reflect probable lower production numbers.

One was overall build quality, fit, and finish of the Titanium series, whose flimsy, fragile hinges were already a known problem by the time of the November 2002 A1025 867MHz/1.0GHz release. By 2005, hinges were no longer available from Apple as OEM replacement parts, with working hinges from donor PowerBooks going for as high as $250, each, on eBay at the time (with third-party hinges, plus servicing, increasing that to $350). In fact, the 400MHz Ti PB I acquired in a trade in August 2005 was a recent recipient of a donor-sourced hinge, and by then, other components of that particular Titanium-series design, like plastic cracks, made it necessary to relegate it to basically a compact desktop server.)

By late 2002, plastic fixtures, like the top case frame, were already known to crack easily and discolour quickly. The novelty of the Titanium design, by late 2002, especially considering then-known costs and upkeep issues, was nowhere what it was in January 2001 (when that form factor was débuted). Moreover, the A1025s still relied on PC-133 memory, all of which were already on the way out (and something consumers at the time regarded as a near-term dead-end, with no path to upgrading beyond 1GB) at a time when much faster PC-2700 SO-DIMMs had become the new standard for new laptops.

Two was how, barely 60 days after the A1025s went on sale, the aluminium 12" and 17" models débuted, leaving consumers who regarded the 15" form factor to be their “goldilocks” ideal, to either try out these new models or wait a few months longer for a 15" aluminium model to premiere. For those final eight-and-a-half months, the Titanium 867MHz/1GHz models were fragile units lacking Bluetooth, Airport Extreme, and much in the way of forward-compatibility, and people shopping around knew to probably wait until the next 15" refresh.

I hope this clears up any residual confusion you’ve had about that series of PowerBooks.
This makes me wonder how many Titaniums started to fall apart and were just thrown away by angry people who expected better build quality out of their $2000-3000 USD laptop. I swear Tis start to crack if you look at them wrong. A lesson on why relying on glue to hold your laptop case together is a bad plan, especially if it runs hot. Also, the keyboards on them tend to leave scratch marks on the screen. Is the TiBook Apple's worst laptop? It's gotta be in the top 3.

Not following these too closely right now as I have all I want but I don't think so. Prices have risen for the most part because: vintage but there seems to be plenty around and relative bargains to be had.

This for instance, current market considering:
I think there's a cap on how high prices for mass-produced stuff like this can go just because of the fact that millions of units were made and people tend to hold onto Apple stuff so there are still a lot out there waiting for someone to find it in the attic. Especially for less unique designs like AlBooks or iBooks.
 
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This makes me wonder how many Titaniums started to fall apart and were just thrown away by angry people who expected better build quality out of their $2000-3000 USD laptop. I swear Tis start to crack if you look at them wrong. A lesson on why relying on glue to hold your laptop case together is a bad plan, especially if it runs hot. Also, the keyboards on them tend to leave scratch marks on the screen. Is the TiBook Apple's worst laptop? It's gotta be in the top 3.


I think there's a cap on how high prices for mass-produced stuff like this can go just because of the fact that millions of units were made and people tend to hold onto Apple stuff so there are still a lot out there waiting for someone to find it in the attic. Especially for less unique designs like AlBooks or iBooks.
I’ve seen people complaining about this, but never experienced it first hand...
I have 4 TiBooks, all were purchased from shopgoodwill.com which is even more of a gamble than eBay.
my first one and ironically the best one is a 1Ghz model. It looks practically new aside from having a couple small paint scuffs. The other 3 are in decent shape too. One of them has a small dent on the bottom of the casing, I think it’s a 667MHz. A bit of paint scuffs but nothing like what people always complain about.

Every single one of the hinges work fine. They were all purchased at random times throughout the past couple years, not all in a lot.

Personally I’d say the AlBooks are a bit worse in terms of “quality”. Every aluminum PowerBook I’ve ever seen has a dent somewhere, or one of the ports is bent out a little bit. Even my best looking one which I use as a daily has the metal around the DVI port pulled out just a little.
The titanium can be painted, the AlBooks dented casing is more than likely permanent. The display on my 1GHz TiBook is also significantly brighter than that of any aluminum PowerBook I have. And I have 9 of those in all three sizes.
 
This makes me wonder how many Titaniums started to fall apart and were just thrown away by angry people who expected better build quality out of their $2000-3000 USD laptop. I swear Tis start to crack if you look at them wrong. A lesson on why relying on glue to hold your laptop case together is a bad plan, especially if it runs hot. Also, the keyboards on them tend to leave scratch marks on the screen. Is the TiBook Apple's worst laptop? It's gotta be in the top 3.

The general guide of “units less-well built or failed have long since sifted out of circulation” probably applies just as much to Titanium PowerBooks as, say, Power Mac G5s towers (whose entire series, save for maybe four or five variants, failed out of circulation early on and have probably been recycled). Low-End Mac, on the titanium PowerBooks, noted at the time:
“I have to concede that the Titanium PowerBook is not one of my all-time favorite ‘Books. It has a reputation of being relatively fragile and somewhat finicky. An acquaintance who refurbishes and resells used Apple laptops once noted that at the time of our conversation he had total of six PowerBook G3 Pismo logic boards for scrap that had controller or logic based issues (i.e., not physically damaged), but by comparison had 30-40 Titanium PowerBook logic boards in the scrap bin. Then there were the too-easily broken lid hinges, RAM slot failures, paint chipping and wearing off, and difficulty replacing or servicing display screens.”

The titanium PowerBooks, as a series, probably rank with the Retina series and T1-equipped MacBook Pros as some of the worst pro-line Mac laptops ever produced, in terms of fit, finish, reliability, and parts availability.

I think there's a cap on how high prices for mass-produced stuff like this can go just because of the fact that millions of units were made and people tend to hold onto Apple stuff so there are still a lot out there waiting for someone to find it in the attic. Especially for less unique designs like AlBooks or iBooks.

It’s probably not a good idea to quote me on this, but I suspect titanium PowerBooks may be entering a collectible phase of availability.

That is to say: the next crop of Ti PBs to begin appearing for sale will probably be well-preserved (under-used/rarely used) examples whose sellers have been them hoarding from daily use for years and now hope to sell an example, especially one in an OEM box, as a generational nostalgia piece (not unlike the clamshell iBooks) whose exchange-value, not its use-value, will be what commands the premium. I hope not, of course, but capitalism’s interaction with emotion (like greed and nostalgia) gets irrational like that.
 
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Because collectors keep the computers they really like. The Ti-99 is more like that baseball card every kid keeps trading. You sort of want it for your collection but it's first to go if you need space or money.

Also to actually use it with any convenience. The Ti-99 needs dedicated shelf/desk space and a bulky screen. The PBook can be slipped vertically on your bookshelf and used just about anywhere.
Yes, I know.. I have a TI-99/4A setup with PEB and everything - still works to this day ! Apple was not a military based chip fabricator, but TI was and still is. The TI PEB was built like a tank. 1981 - 2021 and it still works !
 
I’ve seen people complaining about this, but never experienced it first hand...
I have 4 TiBooks, all were purchased from shopgoodwill.com which is even more of a gamble than eBay.
my first one and ironically the best one is a 1Ghz model. It looks practically new aside from having a couple small paint scuffs. The other 3 are in decent shape too. One of them has a small dent on the bottom of the casing, I think it’s a 667MHz. A bit of paint scuffs but nothing like what people always complain about.

Every single one of the hinges work fine. They were all purchased at random times throughout the past couple years, not all in a lot.

Personally I’d say the AlBooks are a bit worse in terms of “quality”. Every aluminum PowerBook I’ve ever seen has a dent somewhere, or one of the ports is bent out a little bit. Even my best looking one which I use as a daily has the metal around the DVI port pulled out just a little.
The titanium can be painted, the AlBooks dented casing is more than likely permanent. The display on my 1GHz TiBook is also significantly brighter than that of any aluminum PowerBook I have. And I have 9 of those in all three sizes.
The display on my 1GHz TiBook is also significantly brighter than that of any aluminum PowerBook I have. And I have 9 of those in all three sizes. - I have to agree with this. Also, I want to add I feel the DLSD screen of the G4 Alum wasn't as bright either.
 
Also, I want to add I feel the DLSD screen of the G4 Alum wasn't as bright either.

They generally are not, but this was on LG and not Apple, as at the time LG were the only manufacturer for the 1680x1050 and 1440x960 TFT LCDs used on the 17- and 15-inch DLSDs.

If you’re willing to get your hands dirty (or slice them, as the case might be), transplanting a donor LG screen in good shape and with relatively low hours from a 17 aluminium MBP can bump up that brightness. (The 15-inch LCD from the MBPs were a lower 1440x900 form factor, to accommodate space for the iSight camera).
 
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