Getting my newly acquired Quicksilver to match my Mini's setup

[InuNacho]

Hello all, I figured I would try to consolidate all my questions into one thread. Thank you all for who helped me with the USB 2 card the other day.

I recently picked up a Quicksilver 933MHz with 768MB ram and 9000 card. The seller installed 9, 10.4, and 10.5 on a large 300GB disk. It works great but I want to modernize is a little more and see if it can meet my 2018 Mini in terms of ease of use and extend its longevity.

Goals of machine: Scan station for an older Nikon LS-2000 via SCSI card and play games on the side.

1. I was reading on the ATI online manual that the 9000 only has a resolution of 1920x1200. My Dell U3011 has a max resolution of 2560x1600 over Dual Link DVI. Is there a card that will work with the Quicksilver that reaches that resolution? If so can it boot into OS 9 also?

2. What is the most inexpensive card that can push pixels around my secondary Dell U2410 at 1920x1200? I don't need anything stellar, just a PCI card that can literally display an image. DVI preferred.

3. What two port USB KVMs do you all use? I can manually change between display modes on my monitors.

4. Is PCI SATA an option? I have several smaller 60-160GB SSDs lying around, is booting into 10.4 or 10.5 on a SATA SSD possible and what about TRIM? I remember when I first put in a SSD in my old Mac Pro it slowed to a crawl after a few months because Mac OS didn't have a built in TRIM tool.

5. Has anyone replaced the big fan adjacent to the PCI cards with a more modern fan? A Noctura maybe?

6. Is the PSU in danger of failing like I've read happens frequently with MDDs?

7. I remember something about OS 9 and ram limitations. If I max out the ram will OS 9 be ok?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Amethyst1]

1. […] My Dell U3011 has a max resolution of 2560x1600 over Dual Link DVI. Is there a card that will work with the Quicksilver that reaches that resolution? If so can it boot into OS 9 also?

The ATI Radeon 9600 PC&Mac Edition, 9650, X800 XT or X850 XT have dual-link DVI but (probably) need to be "taped" to work in a G4. None have driver support in OS 9. They also have a secondary output (either ADC or single-link DVI) so you could hook up your secondary monitor to that and eliminate the need for another video card; you'll need a passive ADC-to-DVI adapter in case the other output is ADC.

2. What is the most inexpensive card that can push pixels around my secondary Dell U2410 at 1920x1200? I don't need anything stellar, just a PCI card that can literally display an image. DVI preferred.

An ATI Radeon 7000. Cheap, readily available and easily flashable.

4. Is PCI SATA an option? I have several smaller 60-160GB SSDs lying around, is booting into 10.4 or 10.5 on a SATA SSD possible and what about TRIM?

Yes, but no TRIM. That only came in 10.6.8.

 

[eyoungren]

3. What two port USB KVMs do you all use? I can manually change between display modes on my monitors.

I'm using Startech and IOGear. The IOGear handles two 30" Aluminum Cinema Displays at full resolution for both.

4. Is PCI SATA an option? I have several smaller 60-160GB SSDs lying around, is booting into 10.4 or 10.5 on a SATA SSD possible and what about TRIM? I remember when I first put in a SSD in my old Mac Pro it slowed to a crawl after a few months because Mac OS didn't have a built in TRIM tool.

As mentioned, yes. Sonnet is the sought after solution for this, but Adaptec and other Mac compatible cards exist. You can also flash your own PC card.

I had a number of drives in my QS (most of them are now in my MacPro). 4TB is about the limit for APM partitioned drives. At that level or more you want to start partitioning as GUID.

5. Has anyone replaced the big fan adjacent to the PCI cards with a more modern fan? A Noctura maybe?

Yes.

I also replaced the PSU fan and the main fan. I also removed the speaker and put in a smaller fan with a blue LED. Further, I knocked a hole in the bottom of the case and also installed an addition 120mm fan.

Quicksilver Beautification Project

It has taken over two years to finally assemble the monster Quicksilver that I wanted. In all of that time at the back of my mind has been "the inside of my QS looks like a rats nest". Tonight, I cleaned it up! Before pictures first. And after! I borrowed a bit from @harrymatic...

forums.macrumors.com

Cooler Master and Silent X are my preferred brands. When it comes to fans, the highest CFM you can get is what you're looking for.

6. Is the PSU in danger of failing like I've read happens frequently with MDDs?

Not really…unless you do what I did.

Photogenic Macs

Quicksilver…

forums.macrumors.com

1.8Ghz Dual Processor G4, three video cards, 1 USB 2/FW800 card, one PCI-SATA card, three SATA drives and a SATA optical drive. Plus BT 2.0

Each drive needed power, PCI cards needed power, CPU needed power, additional fans needed power and the AGP video card needed supplemental power. Result - overstressed PSU which tended to eat PCI cards, particularly the SATA-PCI card.

7. I remember something about OS 9 and ram limitations. If I max out the ram will OS 9 be ok?

Yes, it will be fine. Unlike the other G4 models, the QS tops out at 1.5GB ram not 2GB.

 

[TheShortTimer]

Unlike the other G4 models, the QS tops out at 1.5GB ram not 2GB.

I wonder what was Apple's reasoning behind that?

 

[lepidotós]

Unlike the other G4 models, the QS tops out at 1.5GB ram not 2GB.

Even then, 2GB installed, e.g. in a Sawtooth, will boot into Mac OS 9 with no issues, Finder just won't recognize the last 512MB.​

I wonder what was Apple's reasoning behind that?

I recently read their spec sheets and they claim the Sawtooth and Mystic both top out at 1.5 too -- I guess to dissuade people from not upgrading? I honestly can't think of any other reason, unless they had issues with all four slots. A ST/GE overclocked with a 133MHz bus will get two slots disabled, maybe they could only open up one?​

 

[flatjuba]

As mentioned, yes. Sonnet is the sought after solution for this, but Adaptec and other Mac compatible cards exist. You can also flash your own PC card.

Do you have any instruction to flash the PC card?

 

[weckart]

I wonder what was Apple's reasoning behind that?

It was a trade off at the time (also with the Digital Audio) with providing 4 PCI lanes instead of the previous three you got with the G3/G4 PowerMacs. The experimental design of the Logic Board also produced problems with flashed SATA cards.

Current state of play with SATA cards:

a) SiI 3512 with the Wiebetech firmware works fine but OSX booting only and OS9 will not recognise or mount any disk hosted on it.
b) SiI 3112 needs to have the 3.3v voltage controller replaced or the card will stop Quicksilvers and DAs from booting (eyoungren seems to have had the one QS, which proved to be the exception to this rule).
c) SiI 3112 also needs to have the ROM chip replaced with one of three specific chips if you want to flash it with the SeriTek/Firmtek firmware for OS9 support otherwise you can try your luck with a hacked Wiebetech firmware for OSX support only.
d) While modified SiI 3112 cards as per b) and c) work in QSes and DAs, they only work with pre-installed OS9 volumes on the disk. Trying to install OS9 onto a disk hosted on the card will fail in my experience, usually causing the PowerMac to freeze. That is down to the flakey SeriTek/Firmtek firmware.

 

[eyoungren]

@flatjuba

Guide to flashing PC SIL3112 SATA cards for Mac

To begin with, hello - I'm new to this board, although I've been a member of the 68kMLA forums for a while. I'm also a long time user of PowerPC Macs. I recently flashed a PC SATA card to use in my PMG4, which I am currently in the process of fully upgrading. I put this guide together for...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[InuNacho]

Thank you all for the responses!

An ATI Radeon 7000. Cheap, readily available and easily flashable.


Yes, but no TRIM. That only came in 10.6.8.

Neat! I'll look up the 7000, I found my old secondary display RAGE 128 GL as a stopgap.

So if there is no TRIM is there a garbage collection utility out there? Or does that even matter with OS 9 and early versions of X?

Yes.

I also replaced the PSU fan and the main fan. I also removed the speaker and put in a smaller fan with a blue LED. Further, I knocked a hole in the bottom of the case and also installed an addition 120mm fan.

Great about the fans! I did some poking around inside of it after I posted and it looks like a bunch of standard PC fans. I'll go to my local computer store and swap out all the old fans this weekend.

Given the relative obscurity of the Sonnet card I was thinking of getting this card. I see one reviewer saying it works in OS 9 but I'm curious if anyone here has tried it.

 

[weckart]

So if there is no TRIM is there a garbage collection utility out there? Or does that even matter with OS 9 and early versions of X?

Most modern SSD drives have decent enough garbage collection. TRIM is a nice-to-have but not an absolute necessity. Just leave enough space on any drive you put in to aid provisioning over what the drive allocates.

 

[eyoungren]

I was thinking of getting this card. I see one reviewer saying it works in OS 9 but I'm curious if anyone here has tried it.

That looks like the PC card with the SIL3112 chip I picked up for about $10 so many years back and then flashed to Mac. Possibly the vendor is going just that. Buying, flashing and then turning a profit.

eBay will protect you so I'd go ahead and try the card.

 

[DearthnVader]

That looks like the PC card with the SIL3112 chip I picked up for about $10 so many years back and then flashed to Mac. Possibly the vendor is going just that. Buying, flashing and then turning a profit.

eBay will protect you so I'd go ahead and try the card.

b) SiI 3112 needs to have the 3.3v voltage controller replaced or the card will stop Quicksilvers and DAs from booting (eyoungren seems to have had the one QS, which proved to be the exception to this rule).

I ordered one of these cards from this Ebay seller, it has a large enough EEPROM to fit the full FrmTk FCODE ROM and it came with the last version. However the card did not operate properly. Trying to format a SATA disk most often failed under both OS 9 and OS X. When the disk did format, reading and writing to the disk often failed.

I tried the card in a QS/Beige G3/PM9600, all the same behavior.

I contacted the seller and they did offer me a return and sent me a return shipping label. However, they had replaced the voltage controller with one that was too large to fit the pad for the old one, so they mounted it on the back of the card and ran some wires from the pad to it.

I had a dead Sil3112 and I vultured the vControler off that one. Now the cards seems to work OK in the Beige G3, and of course not in the QS( won't boot with card installed ).

That's fine, I bought the card for the G3, and despite some conflict with my Sonnet USB/FW card it seems to now work well.

@weckart could you go into some detail about the voltage controller needed for the QS with this card?

The wires used to extend the VC to the back of the card would act as resisters, no?

That could end up causing unpredictable behavior with the VC, wouldn't it?

It would be nice to find a VC that would fit the pads and allow reliable operation in the QS. It seems this seller has found a source of these cards with large EEPROMS, as there is no sign it was ever replaced and given the halfassed hack job they did on the VC I think I would notice.

Too me, I think it's worth $55 to order this card, despite the halfassed VC mod, just because it's easy for me to replace the VC, and we don't have to replace the EEPROM( much harder and worth $45 in my time ).

 

[weckart]

@weckart could you go into some detail about the voltage controller needed for the QS with this card?

The wires used to extend the VC to the back of the card would act as resisters, no?

That could end up causing unpredictable behavior with the VC, wouldn't it?

There's a thread on Macos9lives that goes into detail. All the info came from (S)ATAman who got his info directly from Silicon Image. You need a Micrel 29150, which is much larger than what is on most boards so the linking wires are a necessity and, apparently, also done by Silicon Image on their first batch of improved cards. I doubt that any resistance is going to make that much of a difference but I used much shorter linking leads on mine, just long enough to place the chip on a blank part of the board.

This is the thread http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5279.0.html

Just out of interest, was the ROM chip on the card one of the prescribed three for the Firmtek firmware or did the seller somehow managed to hack it on? I've done a couple of cards with and both worked fine in all my PowerMacs - I had no trouble formatting a SATA drive and installing System 7.6 onto it via my 9600. The only issues I still had were with my Quicksilvers and DA but there isn't much I can do until (S)ATAman delivers the new, improved firmware. If ever.

 

[InuNacho]

I ordered one of these cards from this Ebay seller, it has a large enough EEPROM to fit the full FrmTk FCODE ROM and it came with the last version. However the card did not operate properly. Trying to format a SATA disk most often failed under both OS 9 and OS X. When the disk did format, reading and writing to the disk often failed.

I tried the card in a QS/Beige G3/PM9600, all the same behavior.

I contacted the seller and they did offer me a return and sent me a return shipping label. However, they had replaced the voltage controller with one that was too large to fit the pad for the old one, so they mounted it on the back of the card and ran some wires from the pad to it.

I thought about your post and the fact that I live in the US and that this card is coming from Hong Kong. I'm a bit backlogged on slide archiving and waiting 2 weeks for a piece of hardware just for a maybe situation doesn't really cut it. I just ordered 2x Marvell-88SA8052 based IDE to SATA adapters based on some searching online that lead me back here, lol. I'm going to start the process of cloning the partitions on my 300GB IDE drive onto a 160GB Intel SSD via the USB 2 card that shows up today. I'll use the second 120GB SSD I have as storage.

I also don't have easy access to a PC with a PCI slot. I don't want to flash a card on a friend's PC, figure it doesnt work or something and just be stuck.

Most modern SSD drives have decent enough garbage collection. TRIM is a nice-to-have but not an absolute necessity. Just leave enough space on any drive you put in to aid provisioning over what the drive allocates.

Thanks! My Intel SSD was made in 2012 so I'm not 100% sure about how it does garbage collection but my PNY one is only a few years old.


Got a couple more questions:

1. I replaced the fans last night and found out the big 120MM wasn't even working. Whoops! I was thinking about the ATI 9000, should I swap out the aluminum heatsink with a small fan? What about those PCI slot exhaust fans? Does anyone use one of those?

2. Can the ATI 9000 output dual extended monitors? In both 9 and X? I see some very expensive Belkin ADC-DVI adapters out there on ebay, is that my only option?

 

[weckart]

I also don't have easy access to a PC with a PCI slot. I don't want to flash a card on a friend's PC, figure it doesnt work or something and just be stuck.

It's probably academic now but if you had got hold of a two port Sil3512 card, which you should be able to find fairly easily in the US, you can flash it to Mac and back on a Macintosh. The Wiebetech firmware has both a DOS and an OSX flash utility.