Getting no sound, old home theater and ATV 4K

[sunnysarah]

We have on older home theater system using an Onkyo TX-SR706 receiver (not 4K) and an ATV 2nd gen. Speakers are not wifi.
In order to allow access to the app store and get things moving quicker, we bought an ATV 4K.

It was set up ATV - HDMI - receiver -HDMI - projector
Simply swapping in the new ATV gives us nothing. I am guessing because the receiver is not 4K?
Setting up
ATV4K - HDMI - Projector get things working but no audio.

Is there a way to get the audio working. This new ATV does not have the optical audio and neither does the projector. The receiver does.

Hopefully there is a solution that does not involve replacing the receiver!

 

[Audit13]

You could get audio out by using an HDMI splitter that send audio to the receiver via optical.

VPFET 4K60Hz HDMI Audio Extractor Splitter Converter to Optical and 3.5mm and AUX Adapter Supports 2.0 and 18Gpbs Bandwidth Digital DTS PCM HDR10

www.amazon.com

 

[arw]

It was set up ATV - HDMI - receiver -HDMI - projector
Simply swapping in the new ATV gives us nothing. I am guessing because the receiver is not 4K?

No, it should still work exactly like that. The new ATV is capable of 4K but can output all kinds of different lower resolutions depending on the connected device.
It should work perfectly fine including sound with your existing receiver and auto-negotiate a matching resolution / refresh rate. The video format is primarily defined by your projector but limited by what the receiver is capable of.
The only question is, why it doesn't do it correctly.
Perhaps before reseting the whole receiver, try a different HDMI input and reboot the ATV.
Maybe a different cable between the ATV and the receiver helps, if the current is an old/cheap one (your receiver inputs are HDMI 1.3).

 

[ColdCase]

Sounds like either a cable disconnect or the HDMI handshake is not being done to the 4K's satisfaction. Can you temporarily connect the ATV to the projector directly?

I've used audio extractors to pull audio of the HDMI and to a fibre connection to an amp. These things are finiky, if you go that route do some research or buy from somewhere with easy returns. Every once in a while mine goes out of sync and I have to temporarily by pass it and then patch it back in. Ah the wonder of making 10 year old things work under DRM constraints.

 

[sunnysarah]

You could get audio out by using an HDMI splitter that send audio to the receiver via optical.

VPFET 4K60Hz HDMI Audio Extractor Splitter Converter to Optical and 3.5mm and AUX Adapter Supports 2.0 and 18Gpbs Bandwidth Digital DTS PCM HDR10

www.amazon.com

I just tried this splitter
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VP37KMB/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A28K0QBH3Z1QKZ&psc=1
because I ordered it before I read your reply. It didn't work and I'll return it. I see now in the small print the one I bought is not an audio down scaler. I can try the one you suggest and see if it works better with on optical connection.

 

[sunnysarah]

Sounds like either a cable disconnect or the HDMI handshake is not being done to the 4K's satisfaction. Can you temporarily connect the ATV to the projector directly?

I've used audio extractors to pull audio of the HDMI and to a fibre connection to an amp. These things are finiky, if you go that route do some research or buy from somewhere with easy returns. Every once in a while mine goes out of sync and I have to temporarily by pass it and then patch it back in. Ah the wonder of making 10 year old things work under DRM constraints.

I can plug it into the projector using a HDMI cable, but there is no audio when I do so.
When you say fibre connection, do you mean optical? I guess that's the last thing I can try

 

[sunnysarah]

No, it should still work exactly like that. The new ATV is capable of 4K but can output all kinds of different lower resolutions depending on the connected device.
It should work perfectly fine including sound with your existing receiver and auto-negotiate a matching resolution / refresh rate. The video format is primarily defined by your projector but limited by what the receiver is capable of.
The only question is, why it doesn't do it correctly.
Perhaps before reseting the whole receiver, try a different HDMI input and reboot the ATV.
Maybe a different cable between the ATV and the receiver helps, if the current is an old/cheap one (your receiver inputs are HDMI 1.3).

This is what I don't understand. If the old ATV works and plays video and audio, why when I change the APT, leaving the cords the same, do I just get blue screen?
I found this online:
"TVs and components manufactured before the release of HDMI 1.4 will not support ARC, 4K or HDR. But they do support video resolutions up to Full HD 1080p, which is still widely used."

Since my receiver is HDMI 1.3 I guess its not compatible to anything new via HDMI? But if I use a splitter (because the APT4K doesnt't have an optical slot) and connect to audio via an optical cord it might be a work around?

 

[Audit13]

Sounds like the receiver does not support HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0 and this is the reason the receiver won't pass a 4k signal to the display.

A picture may be possible if you can force the ATV to output video at 1080p but that would defeat the purpose of using a 4k display.

The only way I could get the ATV to work with my 4k TV and non-4k receiver (Anthem mrx510) was to ATV -->HDMI-->TV---> optical from TV to receiver.

This splitter may be better: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07TVSBL7H/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1OKVMTDGZ4QZS&psc=1 to get Dolby Digital Plus to the receiver vs Dolby Digital.

 

[sunnysarah]

Sounds like the receiver does not support HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0 and this is the reason the receiver won't pass a 4k signal to the display.

A picture may be possible if you can force the ATV to output video at 1080p but that would defeat the purpose of using a 4k display.

The only way I could get the ATV to work with my 4k TV and non-4k receiver (Anthem mrx510) was to ATV -->HDMI-->TV---> optical from TV to receiver.

This splitter may be better: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07TVSBL7H/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1OKVMTDGZ4QZS&psc=1 to get Dolby Digital Plus to the receiver vs Dolby Digital.

Thanks! That is the splitter I tried and it does not have optical.

 

[Audit13]

Thanks! That is the splitter I tried and it does not have optical.

This splitter has HDMI out for audio and video so you can send audio over HDMI to the receiver with the other output at 4k to the display.

According to a few of the reviews, buyers were able to send 4k to the TV and high def audio via HDMI to their non-4k receiver.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

OP, if you swap back in the old AppleTV 2, is audio OK again? That would rule out the unlikely cable damaged scenario during the swap.

Have you tried non-protected video sources such as music in your iTunes/Music library ripped from CDs and/or home movies you've shot yourself? The idea here is to see if ANY audio- not managed by video protections- will play and ripped music on your Mac or PC will be easiest to test with the Computers app in that new AppleTV.

Have you tried swapping the old HDMI cable with a new one?

Have you tried a different HDMI port or two on the receiver? Onkyo tends to put their best HDMI spec only on the first port or two. If AppleTV is plugged into HDMI 3 or lower, perhaps give HDMI 1 a try?

When you did the swap to the new AppleTV, did you unplug anything from the receiver or was it simply unplug AppleTV 2 and then plug in newest AppleTV (with no cable changes on the receiver)? If any cables were fully disconnected, re-check your connections. It's easy to plug an HDMI cable into a neighboring jack on an Onkyo and not notice.

I know Onkyo has menu settings to choose the input type: be sure the jack to which AppleTV is connected is set to HDMI instead of optical, analog, etc.

Have you tried unplugging the Onkyo, waiting a minute or two and then plugging it back in? Or did you basically "hot swap" with Onkyo turned on? A full reboot might be a solution.

I presume the projector does not have an HDMI OUT (which could go to receiver): AppleTV HDMI to Projector, Projector HDMI to Receiver? The preferred way would be AppleTV HDMI to Receiver, Receiver HDMI to Projector... but if Projector has an HDMI out, it might be able to send the audio to the receiver much like an ARC jack to a soundbar.

If you rule all this out, you probably do need a new receiver. There's been a LOT of advancement since you purchased that one (it came out in 2008). Maybe move it to another room and continue to enjoy it as a music-only hub? A couple of speakers and it will deliver great sound to another room. If you have a retired iPod, iPhone or iPad, sync your music collection to that device, hook it in and you have a fully independent music collection available in that other room.

The splitter options have been hit or miss for me- generally causing more trouble than they are worth. Yes, they can split out audio but then you may find that causes trouble for CEC functionality. I've tried several mostly to split out some analog audio for Zone 2 options on receivers, but I generally find I don't want them in the chain for other reasons.

For about HALF the price of a new iPhone, you can get a spectacular 2020 receiver with all of the "latest & greatest" standards (some beyond the new AppleTV) and tech inside... that you can then use for the next 5-8 years or so before it gets too far behind the times. Maybe it's time?

 

[sunnysarah]

Thank you for taking the time with this reply! Lots to try here. I have commented in red caps to make it easier to see.

OP, if you swap back in the old AppleTV 2, is audio OK again? That would rule out the unlikely cable damaged scenario during the swap. YES, AUDIO IS FINE AGAIN WITH THE OLD ATV plugged in

Have you tried non-protected video sources such as music in your iTunes/Music library ripped from CDs and/or home movies you've shot yourself? The idea here is to see if ANY audio- not managed by video protections- will play and ripped music on your Mac or PC will be easiest to test with the Computers app in that new AppleTV. I CAN'T TRY THIS ONE, BECAUSE I CAN ONLY GET VIDEO WHEN NEW ATV IS PLUGGED STRAIGHT TO PROJECTOR, BYPASSING RECEIVER.

Have you tried swapping the old HDMI cable with a new one? YES

Have you tried a different HDMI port or two on the receiver? Onkyo tends to put their best HDMI spec only on the first port or two. If AppleTV is plugged into HDMI 3 or lower, perhaps give HDMI 1 a try? YES. GIVES JUST A BLUE SCREEN, REGARDLESS OF PORT IN RECEIVER. CAN ONLY GET SCREEN ACTION WHEN IT'S PLUGGED INTO PROJECTOR

When you did the swap to the new AppleTV, did you unplug anything from the receiver or was it simply unplug AppleTV 2 and then plug in newest AppleTV (with no cable changes on the receiver)? If any cables were fully disconnected, re-check your connections. It's easy to plug an HDMI cable into a neighboring jack on an Onkyo and not notice. YES I HAVE DONE IT BOTH WAYS MULTIPLE TIMES. I DON'T THINK THIS IS THE ISSUE

I know Onkyo has menu settings to choose the input type: be sure the jack to which AppleTV is connected is set to HDMI instead of optical, analog, etc. YES IT CURRENTLY USES HDMI WITH THE OLD ATV SO I KNOW THAT THE SETTINGS ARE CORRECT. AND I DOUBLE CHECKED

Have you tried unplugging the Onkyo, waiting a minute or two and then plugging it back in? Or did you basically "hot swap" with Onkyo turned on? A full reboot might be a solution. YES I HAVE TRIED IT BOTH WAYS, HOT AND REBOOTED

I presume the projector does not have an HDMI OUT (which could go to receiver): AppleTV HDMI to Projector, Projector HDMI to Receiver? The preferred way would be AppleTV HDMI to Receiver, Receiver HDMI to Projector... but if Projector has an HDMI out, it might be able to send the audio to the receiver much like an ARC jack to a soundbar. NO HDMI OUT ON PROJECTOR

If you rule all this out, you probably do need a new receiver. There's been a LOT of advancement since you purchased that one (it came out in 2008). Maybe move it to another room and continue to enjoy it as a music-only hub? A couple of speakers and it will deliver great sound to another room. If you have a retired iPod, iPhone or iPad, sync your music collection to that device, hook it in and you have a fully independent music collection available in that other room.

The splitter options have been hit or miss for me- generally causing more trouble than they are worth. Yes, they can split out audio but then you may find that causes trouble for CEC functionality. I've tried several mostly to split out some analog audio for Zone 2 options on receivers, but I generally find I don't want them in the chain for other reasons. YAH I GET THIS. I AM STILL GOING OT TRY ONE LAST TRICK WITH SPLITTER AND OPTICAL AUDIO, CREATING A WORKAROUND ON THE HDMI TO RECEIVER COMPLETELY. I AM STARTING TO THINK IT MUST BE THAT THE RECEIVER CAN'T HANDLE ANYTHING NEWER THAN HDMI 1.3.

For about HALF the price of a new iPhone, you can get a spectacular 2020 receiver with all of the "latest & greatest" standards (some beyond the new AppleTV) and tech inside... that you can then use for the next 5-8 years or so before it gets too far behind the times. Maybe it's time? HAHA YES I AM SURE IT IS. THANKS AGAIN!

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Good job trying many of my guesses.

Based on all of that, I'm more convinced it's time to replace that old receiver. You can probably get a splitter working but my overall experience with several has been negative. Hopefully, yours will be better. My best suggestion is save up a few hundred and get yourself a new receiver so you can kick that splitter out of the chain. You've got upwards of about 14 years out of the current one, so a new one may be able to carry the load for upwards of 10 more. There's pretty much nothing you can pay MUCH more for from Apple that will give you that much time.

That old receiver should still be great more focused on the audio side of things. So if you don't sell it, maybe just repurpose it to play great sound on some dedicated speakers in another room. You'll have at least radio and you might use a number of options to be able to airplay to it too... and/or repurpose a retired iDevice to feed it your music collection & playlists.

Obviously, I'm a big fan of receivers. I see them as the central hub of great AV setups. I consider them as important to AV as- say a Mac is to an Apple-centric computer setup. The cost so relatively little and last a very long time. I always encourage people t invest in their generally-much-longer life AV equipment like they do in their relatively short-life Apple mix of products. Less cost: much longer use.

Good luck!

 

[arw]

Seems like you really tried everything you could.

Since my receiver is HDMI 1.3 I guess its not compatible to anything new via HDMI?

HDMI standards are backwards compatible. This should prevent exactly the hassle you are having.
Although the ATV is capable of more, it should lower it‘s output to HDMI 1.3 specifications (1080p, 60Hz, HDCP 1.2).
I’d give Apple a call and ask them how to get their Apple TV 4K working with a HDMI 1.3 1080p receiver. Be persistent and ask for a technician.
I‘m really curious about the result.

Just in case you get it working: If your projector can only output a 1080p picture you probably gain nothing from a new receiver at the moment. If Apple has no solution, then I’m with @HobeSoundDarryl (new receiver).