Getting ready to apple-ify myself... itunes?

[el-John-o]

Hey all,

Okay so I have a pretty modest iTunes collection with almost no purchased music (CD rips). I'm about to pickup an iPhone 4 to replace my Windows Mobile 6 phone (been using Windows Mobile exclusively since PocketPC 2003, so here goes nuthin'), as well as an iPad.

My question is, how do I keep my music all synced between my Windows 7 PC, iPad, iPhone, and my Windows XP box? What about purchased music? I don't have an iPod, just a 4GB mp3 player that stays in my car attached to my head unit. However, the iPhone 4 is going to be my iPod (32GB version) so I want my music there obviously, but also on my iPad (64GB 3G)!

Sorry about the rambling about a probably easy solution, but I wasn't able to find much with searching. I'm fairly new to this iStuff (except for my old iMac 3G haha), but I'm not new to Mac or to Apple.

Thanks!

John

 

[hitekalex]

Well, iTunes is currently the only way to get your music onto Apple iDevices, so you don't have much of a choice. Since Apple has Windows version of iTunes, your Windows needs are covered.

It's not clear where your music purchases were made - if any of your music is non-iTunes-DRM protected, iTunes won't support it.

 

[dXTC]

Here's my suggestion for your setup:

Use the Windows 7 PC as the "source". Install iTunes on it and make sure all your music is on that Library. Once you add music to it, do not remove it, even if you intend to listen to music only on the iPhone. If you later need to restore your iPhone, your music will be available to reload. (So many people load up their iPods/iPhones with music, then delete it from iTunes to free up computer disk space, and THEN freak out when their iDevices crash and all their music is gone forever. Keep the music in iTunes, and avoid that fate.)

Now, install iTunes on your XP box and enable Home Sharing on both Windows boxes, utilizing the same Apple ID. You'll then be able to keep the XP box updated with what's on the W7 PC; even iTunes-purchased music can be sent to the XP box in Home Sharing mode.

Sync both your iPhone and iPad to the Windows 7 PC.

And that's it!

Later on, if you decide to get an Apple TV, you can use either the W7 or XP boxes as iTunes sources. I'd recommend the XP box, frankly. That way, if you're gaming on your W7 PC and someone wants to watch a movie, both can be done without interruption. Old XP boxes are just fine for serving music and movies to the newer Apple TV, as long as your home network can handle the traffic (a solid WiFi G connection is enough for everything except HD video).

hitekalex's note applies only to DRM-protected WMAs and other non-Apple files. Your CD-ripped files should be good, as long as they're MP3, M4A/AAC or Apple Lossless.

EDIT: The iTunes install on the XP box can also serve as a de facto backup should your W7 rig have to be rebuilt, and vice versa.

 

[vastoholic]

Yeah I've had no problems with CD rips or music acquired from "other" sources working in iTunes and on my iPhone/iPad.

 

[el-John-o]

Here's my suggestion for your setup:

Use the Windows 7 PC as the "source". Install iTunes on it and make sure all your music is on that Library. Once you add music to it, do not remove it, even if you intend to listen to music only on the iPhone. If you later need to restore your iPhone, your music will be available to reload. (So many people load up their iPods/iPhones with music, then delete it from iTunes to free up computer disk space, and THEN freak out when their iDevices crash and all their music is gone forever. Keep the music in iTunes, and avoid that fate.)

Now, install iTunes on your XP box and enable Home Sharing on both Windows boxes, utilizing the same Apple ID. You'll then be able to keep the XP box updated with what's on the W7 PC; even iTunes-purchased music can be sent to the XP box in Home Sharing mode.

Sync both your iPhone and iPad to the Windows 7 PC.

And that's it!

Later on, if you decide to get an Apple TV, you can use either the W7 or XP boxes as iTunes sources. I'd recommend the XP box, frankly. That way, if you're gaming on your W7 PC and someone wants to watch a movie, both can be done without interruption. Old XP boxes are just fine for serving music and movies to the newer Apple TV, as long as your home network can handle the traffic (a solid WiFi G connection is enough for everything except HD video).

hitekalex's note applies only to DRM-protected WMAs and other non-Apple files. Your CD-ripped files should be good, as long as they're MP3, M4A/AAC or Apple Lossless.

EDIT: The iTunes install on the XP box can also serve as a de facto backup should your W7 rig have to be rebuilt, and vice versa.

To answer someones question, all purchased music was purchased through iTunes, but 95% of the music is CD ripped, so it sounds like I'm in the clear.

You did make me curious on the issue of HD video. I have no problem streaming HD video from my 1TB eSata drive (hooked up to the W7 PC) to any of my other PC's, such as said XP box (which has a decent HD Radeon graphics card). Additionally, if I'm streaming off of the Internet ANYWAY with Apple TV, then my Internet connection itself is only 10mbps (in fact, I can stream 1080p video just fine with that 10mbps Internet connection).

I guess it's a moot point since my router is Wireless N (though nothing in my house is Wireless N, all Wireless G. Except for the iPad and iPhone soon). But I have just heard over and over again that Wireless G isn't good enough for HD streaming, and this makes THEORETICAL sense because 1080p is somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.75GBps, but even Gigabit ethernet isn't that fast, which is why things are compressed. Compressed HD is more in the MBps range.

Thoughts?

John

Edit: Not to mention if HD was practically uncompressed, Blu Ray discs would have to be MUCH larger than 50GB. Two hours at almost 2GBps, well, do the math haha.

 

[dXTC]

To answer someones question, all purchased music was purchased through iTunes, but 95% of the music is CD ripped, so it sounds like I'm in the clear.

You did make me curious on the issue of HD video. I have no problem streaming HD video from my 1TB eSata drive (hooked up to the W7 PC) to any of my other PC's, such as said XP box (which has a decent HD Radeon graphics card). Additionally, if I'm streaming off of the Internet ANYWAY with Apple TV, then my Internet connection itself is only 10mbps (in fact, I can stream 1080p video just fine with that 10mbps Internet connection).

I guess it's a moot point since my router is Wireless N (though nothing in my house is Wireless N, all Wireless G. Except for the iPad and iPhone soon). But I have just heard over and over again that Wireless G isn't good enough for HD streaming, and this makes THEORETICAL sense because 1080p is somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.75GBps, but even Gigabit ethernet isn't that fast, which is why things are compressed. Compressed HD is more in the MBps range.

Thoughts?

John

Edit: Not to mention if HD was practically uncompressed, Blu Ray discs would have to be MUCH larger than 50GB. Two hours at almost 2GBps, well, do the math haha.

WiFi-G's theoretical maximum is 54 Mbps, but is often lowered to 36 or even lower because of distance from the router's antenna, signal loss due to walls/floors/furniture, etc. Then there's network overhead.

Anyway, if you compress HD enough, it can indeed be sent over G. The question is, are you happy with the resulting quality at that level of compression?

Since you have an N router, I'd update the connection for your main PC to N as well, if possible.

 

[el-John-o]

WiFi-G's theoretical maximum is 54 Mbps, but is often lowered to 36 or even lower because of distance from the router's antenna, signal loss due to walls/floors/furniture, etc. Then there's network overhead.

Anyway, if you compress HD enough, it can indeed be sent over G. The question is, are you happy with the resulting quality at that level of compression?

Since you have an N router, I'd update the connection for your main PC to N as well, if possible.

But ALL HD is compressed (I'm not trying to argue, just trying to understand the subject.) There was a company in sweden that, as an example, has a 10 second completely uncompressed HD clip. It's 6 Gigs. 6 Gigabytes for 10 seconds of video. I'm sure the quality is fantastic, but still, what's the size of a full HD movie on iTunes anyway? How much data is ACTUALLY feeding through. (btw, that clip from Sweden had no audio, it was just 1920x1080 images at 24 bit color, 60 frames per second.)

Many of the movies in my Blu Ray collection are just on 25GB discs, which means in theory it would only be pushing around 3.47mbps (I know it doesn't work quite like that, but still).

Help me out here? What am I missing?

-John

 

[bdavis89]

(So many people load up their iPods/iPhones with music, then delete it from iTunes to free up computer disk space, and THEN freak out when their iDevices crash and all their music is gone forever. Keep the music in iTunes, and avoid that fate.)

Who in HELL has EVER done this?!?! That has got to be the most moronic thing I've ever heard!

 

[poloponies]

Who in HELL has EVER done this?!?! That has got to be the most moronic thing I've ever heard!

You must be new. Moronic behavior is pretty commonplace around here.

 

[el-John-o]

You must be new. Moronic behavior is pretty commonplace around here.

Folks who have a lot of junk on their PC's and need a cleanout. I've done it, but never with purchased content. In fact, there are a couple of CD's that are only on my mp3 player. Before I built the rig I had now I had a Sempron 3000+ machine with a 40GB Hard Drive, so space was a premium. Now, I backup my music to a 1TB drive and also have it on my main 500GB drive, surplus is nice!

Doing it with purchased content is a little silly, but then again, I primarily use iTunes on my desktop PC, and sometimes in my car. I don't have any portable media players (next week I'll have an iPhone 4 though.) My mp3 player stays in my car. Therefore there is just as much risk to me for my purchased content, should my PC fail, as someone who transfered to their iPod and then deleted it off of their PC, should their iPod fail.

 

[BrennerM]

Who in HELL has EVER done this?!?! That has got to be the most moronic thing I've ever heard!

There are many, MANY people who don't seem to understand the iTunes database / device paradigm and simply don't get that they need to keep a copy on their computer, even though they rip stuff from CDs and buy stuff off the store. They think that if it is on a device they can just pull it back off at anytime. Apparently they don't think about what would happen if they dropped their iPod or it got stolen, etc.

Of course there are also hordes of people who never backup their data either, and that is just as dumb...

 

[mKTank]

There are lots of iTunes alternatives. CopyTrans, Winamp, and MediaMonkey to name a few.

 

[bdavis89]

There are many, MANY people who don't seem to understand the iTunes database / device paradigm and simply don't get that they need to keep a copy on their computer, even though they rip stuff from CDs and buy stuff off the store. They think that if it is on a device they can just pull it back off at anytime. Apparently they don't think about what would happen if they dropped their iPod or it got stolen, etc.

Of course there are also hordes of people who never backup their data either, and that is just as dumb...

dang, thats just mind-bottling to me

 

[hitekalex]

There are lots of iTunes alternatives. CopyTrans, Winamp, and MediaMonkey to name a few.

And those help the OP to sync his music with his iPhone/iPad how??

 

[el-John-o]

And those help the OP to sync his music with his iPhone/iPad how??

I was gonna ask the same question, lol. He may have been confused though, as I have mentioned that I currently own neither (but will own both soon) and currently use a cheap mp3 player in my car for music.

-John

 

[dXTC]

Who in HELL has EVER done this?!?! That has got to be the most moronic thing I've ever heard!

There are many, MANY people who don't seem to understand the iTunes database / device paradigm and simply don't get that they need to keep a copy on their computer, even though they rip stuff from CDs and buy stuff off the store. They think that if it is on a device they can just pull it back off at anytime. Apparently they don't think about what would happen if they dropped their iPod or it got stolen, etc.

Of course there are also hordes of people who never backup their data either, and that is just as dumb...

dang, thats just mind-bottling to me

I've posted in more than a few threads where someone has done just this thing. Then their iPods get dropped off stairs onto concrete/take a bath in the washing machine/other nasty, fatal hazard, and they post on MacRumors with "OMGzorz i NEED to get my muzik off my dead IPOD like NOW!! helpz plz kthxbye". After a few times of posting "This is Exhibit A of the reasons we don't delete our library contents," I kinda got tired of it.

EDIT:

But ALL HD is compressed (I'm not trying to argue, just trying to understand the subject.) There was a company in sweden that, as an example, has a 10 second completely uncompressed HD clip. It's 6 Gigs. 6 Gigabytes for 10 seconds of video. I'm sure the quality is fantastic, but still, what's the size of a full HD movie on iTunes anyway? How much data is ACTUALLY feeding through. (btw, that clip from Sweden had no audio, it was just 1920x1080 images at 24 bit color, 60 frames per second.)

Many of the movies in my Blu Ray collection are just on 25GB discs, which means in theory it would only be pushing around 3.47mbps (I know it doesn't work quite like that, but still).

Help me out here? What am I missing?

-John

Yes, all HD is compressed for just that reason. In fact, iTunes HD isn't even 1080p; it's 720p. As to the average bitrate of an iTunes HD movie, well, ya got me. I have yet to rent or purchase one.

However, let's take your 25 GB theoretical example. Say that the movie is 100 minutes, a plausible number. That's 1 GByte for 4 minutes, ~250 MBytes per minute, or more than 4 Megabytes per second-- in other words, 32 Megabits per second. That's pushing the limits of the average WiFi-G connection- it would have to be a very stable connection indeed to keep that up without video glitches.

Obviously, iTunes isn't pushing that kind of bitrate over the Internet. On a stable connection, sure, G could handle it, but the whole idea of WiFi is to be able to have the computer relatively far away from the router, usually in another room. Sure, you could maintain a 54 Mbps connection through a wall or two for short bursts, but if packets consistently have to be resent, then it'll fall back a dozen or two Mbps. THEN the data must hop from the router to the end device (Apple TV or iPad), then the device must acknowledge back that the previous packet got received, that ack hops back over the router, and that kind of overhead cuts into the maximum theoretical streaming rate.

Best bets? Upgrade your PCs to WiFi N if you plan to stream to your TV or other device anytime soon.

 

[Weiser878]

Well, iTunes is currently the only way to get your music onto Apple iDevices, so you don't have much of a choice. Since Apple has Windows version of iTunes, your Windows needs are covered.

It's not clear where your music purchases were made - if any of your music is non-iTunes-DRM protected, iTunes won't support it.

This is a very inaccurate posting.

There are several "drag and drop" alternatives to iTunes to get music on your iDevice. Some were listed by mkTank; and yes, they DO work. I used SharePOD on my old PC because iTunes was such a hog on windows.

As long as the music on your PC was ripped into MP3 format, it should load into iTunes or onto your iDevice with no problem. It does not have to be iTunes purchased.

 

[el-John-o]

This is a very inaccurate posting.

There are several "drag and drop" alternatives to iTunes to get music on your iDevice. Some were listed by mkTank; and yes, they DO work. I used SharePOD on my old PC because iTunes was such a hog on windows.

As long as the music on your PC was ripped into MP3 format, it should load into iTunes or onto your iDevice with no problem. It does not have to be iTunes purchased.

He was talking about non-iTunes DRM. Meaning if I bought a song off of Some other website or service, that was copy protected, itunes wouldn't support it. What your talking about, is non-DRM period, like CD rips or non copyrighted mp3's. Besides, most media services have their copy protection setup in such a way that you have to use their proprietary software anyway, all the more reason for them to ask. But yes, if i buy songs I use iTunes.

dXTC

Yep, when I was "figuring" I wasn't "figuring" the conversion factor to Megabits instead of Megabytes. It's actually a non-issue for me so sorry for wasting your time, but I've been meaning to learn more on that subject anyway.

The whole wifi speed vs internet speed is a pet pieve anyway. I was watching an iPad review and the guy said "We're only on wireless G so the internet is going to be slow."

Flaw 1 - 54mbps or even, 12 or 24mbps is NOT slow for pulling up the New York Times

Flaw 2 - unless your on FiOS, your running 10mbps or less, which is slower than even a poor signal on your router. I am in a solid brick room on the other side of the house from my router with one "bar" right now, and am still getting 10mbps down, my internet performance hasn't decreased at all, other than some increased latency (maybe packet loss like you were talking about)

So I was hoping it wasn't one of those sort of blind arguments I was hearing, that without Wireless N your internets are getting fat or something like that.

Thanks!

John

 

[dXTC]

dXTC

Yep, when I was "figuring" I wasn't "figuring" the conversion factor to Megabits instead of Megabytes. It's actually a non-issue for me so sorry for wasting your time, but I've been meaning to learn more on that subject anyway.

The whole wifi speed vs internet speed is a pet pieve anyway. I was watching an iPad review and the guy said "We're only on wireless G so the internet is going to be slow."

It's a non-issue for me as well. My router's an Airport Extreme with the simultaneous dual band, so my G clients don't force my N clients to fall back. Other than that, it works about as well as other N routers, I guess. Regardless, I don't consider this as having been a waste of time; it's been an interesting conversation, especially compared to the "i need 2 get my music back plz help kthxbye" threads as mentioned before.

I've seen that WiFi vs. Internet mixup quite a bit myself. I just shake my head when someone complains about getting a brand new SuperMaxRangeBoostExtremeMega-N router, only to find that his Internet is still slow as Christmas in April. I know that my paltry 3 Mbps Internet connection wouldn't handle HD video without serious buffering time, so I stick to SD when watching Netflix. Tradeoffs-- gotta love 'em.

Oh, and to mKTank: you forgot doubleTwist. I'm hoping to use it to breathe some life into this old Sansa player that my wife abandoned when she got her touch.

 

[el-John-o]

It's a non-issue for me as well. My router's an Airport Extreme with the simultaneous dual band, so my G clients don't force my N clients to fall back. Other than that, it works about as well as other N routers, I guess. Regardless, I don't consider this as having been a waste of time; it's been an interesting conversation, especially compared to the "i need 2 get my music back plz help kthxbye" threads as mentioned before.

I've seen that WiFi vs. Internet mixup quite a bit myself. I just shake my head when someone complains about getting a brand new SuperMaxRangeBoostExtremeMega-N router, only to find that his Internet is still slow as Christmas in April. I know that my paltry 3 Mbps Internet connection wouldn't handle HD video without serious buffering time, so I stick to SD when watching Netflix. Tradeoffs-- gotta love 'em.

Oh, and to mKTank: you forgot doubleTwist. I'm hoping to use it to breathe some life into this old Sansa player that my wife abandoned when she got her touch.

Haha yeah or "What's your internet speed"

"Lemme check.... 54mbps"

Or, if they are on ethernet "100mbps"